Western Conference Offseason: Winner and Losers

[Paper Face]

... even more than "playing himself into shape" supposedly did.

Sorry Stevie, but if you're going to put that notion into quotes as if it never happened that way, then the trophy belongs to you for not only being the funniest poster, but also a brilliant talent in the art of revisionist history. Talk about stealing the show.

As for Boozer and the Jazz, I don't think he has the balls to really undermine Sloan or even the ability to be more selfish on the court than he already is. He would have to go down with the ship and ruin his own reputation to accomplish the level of sedition that you are insinuating, and the coaching staff would have to allow it in almost utter complicity. If it were the point guard we were talking about, then maybe you'd have a point. But Boozer can only really hurt himself by doing what you infer in a system like Utah's.

Do you think that the coach and management are so blind and stupid as to allow that sort of nonsense to continue beyond a stretch of a few games? Do you think Boozer is charismatic or intelligent enough to lead any sort of mutiny? Do you believe that he carries any actual pull or influence over other members of the roster after the carnival of a summer he's had? Do you really think that Jerry is afraid to bench him (or anyone)?

So he takes a few more shots and plays less defense. Seriously... who's going to notice? You?

The Jazz have proven themselves resilient to these sort of situations before. I think when it comes to Boozer, they are more than up to the task. Boozer may be a selfish PR failure who only cares about money, but he's no Rodman. A fake like Carlos has about as much ability to harm the team and ruin the season as one of the Jazz girls.

[stevebozell]

So in my argument, the coaching staff is too strong to let it happen....where were they in YOUR argument??

You said he hurt chemistry last year, why didnt they stop it?

They couldnt.....just like they wouldnt be able to stop it this year. They may be able to bench him if he acts up, but then again I want you to explain how that makes this years team better than last, which is the argument here.

Your argument holds no water...but if it makes you feel better about your life to pretend, go ahead.

[JDubJazz]

I totally agree that the lockerroom dynamics were probably somewhat messed up towards the end of last season and that Boozer could quite easily be a disruptive factor if he is a member of the team this year.
On the other hand, I disagree with your assesment of Millsap. It is true that he is ideally suited to be a backup big on a championship, or a much, much better version of Malik Rose. However, that does not mean that he can't be a starting PF or that he's irrefutably overpaid. He put up great numbers as a starter and while he's not and may never be a go-to caliber offensive player he certainly has some game on that end. That is, unless solid footwork in the post, great finishing ability, an improving mid-range J and the ability to put the ball on the floor don't qualify as components of offensive "game." It's not like he won't improve there, either.
He's undeniably a little bit on the short side, but so is Udonis Haslem, who, I probably don't need to tell you, was the starting PF for the Heat when they won the 'ship. Then there's Brandon Bass, who will more than likely be the starting PF for the Magic, who, I think most people would agree are a championship caliber team, whether or not they actually win the thing. Granted, those teams had/have a dominant center, which the Jazz don't, but that Millsap could quite conceivably be the starting PF on a championship caliber team naturally follows from the fact that he is essentially a rich man's version of guys like that.
We would all love to have a seven footer with elite offensive skills manning the four, but there are only about 4 of those in the entire league, so I'll settle for a highly effective and hard working, if undersized, guy who recorded 19 double-doubles in a row at one point and is only going to get better. If the Cavs are going to be paying Anderson Varajeo (a true example of a 4 with no offensive game) 50 million dollars over 6 years, I feel pretty good about paying Millsap the money we will be, but that's just me.

The problem with Millsap, especially as a Jazz starter, is that he has no appreciable offensive game, especially with his back to the basket. The Jazz rely on the PF to be their post scorer. How is Millsap supposed to do that? If you thought Collins and Harpring got a lot of shots blocked, just wait until Millsap is posting up 10-15 times a game. Last year, he had a nice stretch of about 20 games before coming back down to earth. Most of those nice games came as a result of hustle plays, which is not something that can be sustained over the course of multiple years (see Kirilenko, Andrei). If Millsap is this teams long term option at PF, then he better improve by leaps and bounds (not likely) or the Jazz are nothing more than an NBA also-ran.

[majortripps69]

....we interrupt "As the World Turns: RealGM Edition" for the following infomercial...

Seriously, nobody has a clue how this season is going to pan out, but I for one am really starting to wish that people will lay off the Fesenko koolaid. This dude isn't going to amount to squat in the league. He has the size, yes. He has the talent, debatable. He has the mental capacity, never will. I mean come on, the guy got benched from his nations team. If he's not good enough to play there, he's certainly not good enough to play in the premiere basketball league. We should definitely place our hopes in Koufos though, that kid has game and will develop to be a good solid NBA player. Let's pray Miles comes back a little stronger, a little quicker and with a whole lot better drive. We need Miles to take up that three spot and make it his for good.

And now back to your regularly scheduled soap opera.....

[realfung]

Winner definitely is Spurs, Mavs and Lakers.

Denver is loser

[JazzJuice]

No the Jazz did not make a block buster trade or manage to unload Boozer for a better player but...

Don't forget that Millsap is only really over paid this year as his contract was very front loaded. After this he will be a bargain. He has plenty of hussle left in him and I don't see him averaging below 15 and 10.

If the team can't unload Boozer, which I hope they do, they will still have a strong 3 man rotation with Boozer and Millsap competing for minutes at the 4. Millsap will be fighting to prove he should be the starting power forward and Boozer will be fighting to keep his stats high for FA.

I believe Sloan will bench players if chemistry suffers, and I agree with others that Boozer has too much at stake to rock the boat.

Miles, Brewer, Millsap, and Koufos should all improve. AK will help us much as he hurts us. No one will say they we got worse at the PG position. Collins is gone, so what. If Harpring leaves his toughness will be missed, but the added minutes to the others are welcome. Fesenko is a big ? Okur and Boozer will play well if they stay healthy. Worse case scenario we are about as good as we were last year.

True some of the other teams in the west have gotten better. We might be competing for the 4/5 seed as usual but we will be very competative and the potential is there to beat anybody. And to top it all off we might get the highest pick we've had in forever from the NYK.

[Paper Face]

You said he hurt chemistry last year, why didnt they stop it?

Because they were trying to get him back in shape for the playoffs. Does that make sense? Allow your best low post scorer to play himself into shape? Sacrifice some regular season games and chemistry for the hopes of being in sync for the playoffs? It makes perfect sense to me. Things may have been much different had the Jazz not faced LA in the first round. They lost more games than expected, and they got unlucky. That's life.

They couldnt.....just like they wouldnt be able to stop it this year.

Talk about an argument that doesn't hold water. You're changing the context and expecting the same outcome. These are two different situations we're talking about here. With 26 games left last season, the Jazz took a gamble by basically starting over so that Carlos could get up to speed. The beginning of this season is a different situation, and your argument would be benefited by admitting as much and taking it into account.

The player:

A. Carlos will be in shape.
B. He won't be returning from injury.
C. He wont be trying to catch up to a team that is in late-season form.
D. He has everything to gain by playing well (unlike last season when he always had his opt-in to fall back on and free agency to give him hope for a clean slate).
E. He must be on his teammates' and coaches' good side to accomplish his goals.
F. He's stupid and a PR ignoramus, but there is little evidence at all that he harbors the propensity for Marbury-level sedition during the regular season.

The situations:

A. Training camp vs. Late season.
B. New season vs. Playoff push.
C. Jazz coaching & FO post-AK situation vs. Supposed carcinogenic effect of Boozer's mere presence.

How can you "argue" that the two situations will have the same results while ignoring these differences and the complexities that they represent?

They may be able to bench him if he acts up, but then again I want you to explain how that makes this years team better than last, which is the argument here.

With Boozer, the Jazz have the same talent level that won 54 games in '08, which is six wins better than last year. Add some luck in the health department, and they'll easily be better than the '09 team in terms of chemistry, experience and production. If they have to bench him they will, but it will only spur him to perform well given subsequent chances. Which of course will help the team.

I'd like to see you or anyone argue that last year's patchwork team with limited availability of its starters will somehow be better than this year's club.

Your argument holds no water...but if it makes you feel better about your life to pretend, go ahead.

I don't need to "feel better". I'm an optimist. I am perpetually excited about the Jazz and I always hope that they win. I don't set my expectations low to protect my fragile ego. That's the job of the pessimist.

[stevebozell]

All you did right there is just argue against yourself......speaking of funny.

That is, if you can remember back to your original post, which you for obvious reasons now want to ignore.

[Paper Face]

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm even paying attention to all your non-points.

[qman]

Paperface,

I agree with you. Things look good for upcoming season. My two concerns are injuries and Boozer's effect on team chemistry.

[Bradford]

Name one thing the Jazz could have done to make the team better. I'm tired of all this negativity coming from everyone on this board.

I second that....I am just thankful I don't have to live a life filled with such negativity...The Jazz are a top team because of what they did this offseason, yet somehow people are criticizing them? For what? What were they supposed to do? Please tell.

[idajazz]

If there is an issue with chemistry because of the Boozer situation it will Involve Millsap, and his ego as well as Boozer.
If neither can accept being the bench guy then we will have a problem.
As for all the other stuff with Boozer, I think is a non issue once the season starts.

Paperface.....you have made some very nice points.
I would quit while ahead if I were you. Continuing at this point is like trying to reason with a 3 year old who is pitching a fit.

[Nuggets_Talk]

Winner definitely is Spurs, Mavs and Lakers.

Denver is loser

we improve our roster and lose?