The Fatal Flaw with this Roster

[slick_watts]

I think a guy who might come real cheap who may help the Thunder in 2010 offseason is Brendan Haywood. He's had injury problems recently, but he's a big body and can be a nice 1/2 punch with Krstic if they intend to keep Green at PF..

He's the kind of "average starter" I referenced earlier. I'd definitely be happy with his addition, I just don't think he is good enough in any area to hide the weaknesses of Green - which needs to be done to contend, I think. You're basically giving yourself a team that's always going to be at a disadvantage in the front court. The back court better develop into near stars! Again, no rush, but the sooner you can put a real nucleus together, the better for team chemistry. I'd happily wait to see what the next draft and free agency period does for the front court, but once that passes, the team better go into overdrive to complete its front court.

I think you can be very competitive in today's NBA, and even contend, without a traditional front court. As I mentioned earlier, just look at Dallas for a good example of a team which made the Finals without a dominant big man in the traditional mold. The fact that Kevin Durant is able to score so efficiently really minimizes the need for a low post scorer. The team needs interior defense and rebounding in the front court with Durant and (possibly) Green. Haywood, or any kind of center like him, would provide both those things.

The team as currently constructed will always be at a disadvantage because they have nobody to guard opposing bigs or patrol the paint / block shots. I don't think there's a huge need for a guy like Carlos Boozer or Amar'e Stoudemire who will score efficiently inside as opposed to someone like Emeka Okafor / Tyson Chandler who could have galvanized the defense. I would be much more comfortable with Green / Durant at SF / PF if the Thunder had a center in the Chandler mold inside playing defense and rebounding, and they could easily be competitive with such an arrangement.

[HomieOmey]

I think you can be very competitive in today's NBA, and even contend, without a traditional front court. As I mentioned earlier, just look at Dallas for a good example of a team which made the Finals without a dominant big man in the traditional mold. The fact that Kevin Durant is able to score so efficiently really minimizes the need for a low post scorer. The team needs interior defense and rebounding in the front court with Durant and (possibly) Green. Haywood, or any kind of center like him, would provide both those things.

The team as currently constructed will always be at a disadvantage because they have nobody to guard opposing bigs or patrol the paint / block shots. I don't think there's a huge need for a guy like Carlos Boozer or Amar'e Stoudemire who will score efficiently inside as opposed to someone like Emeka Okafor / Tyson Chandler who could have galvanized the defense. I would be much more comfortable with Green / Durant at SF / PF if the Thunder had a center in the Chandler mold inside playing defense and rebounding, and they could easily be competitive with such an arrangement.

Oh definitely! I've already mentioned the Nuggets as a perfect model. Westbrook will probably never be Billups, but Harden could be much more solid and dependable than JR Smith. Denver saw quite a bit of success with Nene, Birdman and Kenyon, but those are three strong guys who can rebound and defend the interior. I'm sure the Thunder could have had their own version of that if they really wanted (Okafor and Milsap). Even with Chandler though, the Thunder would have been seriously needing some more beef and strength down low. I have said a few times that I loved the Chandler idea, and would even be open to adding Dalembert as long as some salary is being moved.

I just think the Thunder need some serious upgrades to their front court, period. No one seems to be willing to give up more than just Green and cap space for premier bigs, which surprises me a bit. With an addition like Bosh, Haywood would probably be more than enough to complete the roster. Its much easier to replace a guy like Green than it is to land a player like Bosh or Amar'e though. These are guys that demand a lot of attention and would take a lot of pressure off the young back court, allowing them to concentrate on building their games and playing defense.

[slick_watts]

I'm (slowly) warming up to the idea wiff seems to have that Kevin Durant may eventually be the ipso-facto PF, and Jeff Green can play a traditional SF role. Think kind of like Dirk Nowitzki / Josh Howard forward tandem. I think it's worth experimenting with that type of arrangement since it's my belief Green would make an excellent SF if he didn't have to guard big guys. KD is a lot longer and even though he isn't strong he'd have more success with that down the road, or so the thinking goes..

In that setup, a traditional center that can rebound, defend, and block some shots makes the front court viable. Even a player such as Brendan Haywood would improve the defense and 'strength' of the existing frontcourt tremendously just because he's long (as opposed to Collison) and strong (as opposed to Krstic). This only really works if the Green / Durant forward pairing shakes out the right way.

Otherwise, I agree that Jeff Green should be eventually moved or relegated to sixth man role. If Kevin Durant can't play PF, and Jeff Green can't play PF, then there's a problem with the roster and it will have to be addressed.

[SportsFan215]

Would you guys be interested in this deal , that I posted on the trade board? This gives the Thunder the rebounding, blocking, and inside defensive presence the Thunder are looking for. Plus he's only 23, and still has loads of potential.

Clippers Get: Green/Morris
Clippers Give: Kaman/Thornton

The Clippers get the perfect SF for their team, while saving a bunch of money.

Hawks Get: Kaman/Thornton
Hawks Give: Smoove/Morris

The Hawks finally get a real center and a good, young scorer in Thornton. Losing Smoove would hurt, but a lot of Hawks fans and even Coach Woodson would not mind losing Smith's immaturity. Morris is just in there as a small filler and the Clips could cut him and he could return to the Hawks for all I care.

Thunder Get: Smoove
Thunder Give: Green

The Thunder have just enough cap room to take in the difference in these contracts, and they get a good defensive upgrade. Smoove is very young and could grow with the young core of the Thunder and he is much more of a natural PF than Green.

[wiff]

Would you guys be interested in this deal , that I posted on the trade board? This gives the Thunder the rebounding, blocking, and inside defensive presence the Thunder are looking for. Plus he's only 23, and still has loads of potential.

Clippers Get: Green/Morris
Clippers Give: Kaman/Thornton

The Clippers get the perfect SF for their team, while saving a bunch of money.

Hawks Get: Kaman/Thornton
Hawks Give: Smoove/Morris

The Hawks finally get a real center and a good, young scorer in Thornton. Losing Smoove would hurt, but a lot of Hawks fans and even Coach Woodson would not mind losing Smith's immaturity. Morris is just in there as a small filler and the Clips could cut him and he could return to the Hawks for all I care.

Thunder Get: Smoove
Thunder Give: Green

The Thunder have just enough cap room to take in the difference in these contracts, and they get a good defensive upgrade. Smoove is very young and could grow with the young core of the Thunder and he is much more of a natural PF than Green.

You just won't give up the idea of trading for green will you.

[SportsFan215]

^ Nope. I think he is the perfect SF for the Clippers between Gordon and Griffin. But honestly I think this deal helps all three teams involved.

[slick_watts]

I'd be curious to know what most OKC fans think about trading Green for Josh Smith. Smith is definitely more of a PF and at least more of a defensive presence. I can't see Sam Presti taking on his contract but it's an interesting idea.

[wiff]

Over all I like Josh Smith, and his contract is pretty close to what I see Jeff Green eventually netting from Presti.

Apparently Josh Smith has some baggage that comes with him. I'd like to know more about that.

I still am not sold on Smith being a pure PF however he does block a lot of shots.

I think he'd be an upgrade but again these kids are still so young I'm willing to give another year with Jeff Green at PF and see if Durant can eventually fill out enough to cover PF defensively.

[HomieOmey]

I'm (slowly) warming up to the idea wiff seems to have that Kevin Durant may eventually be the ipso-facto PF, and Jeff Green can play a traditional SF role. Think kind of like Dirk Nowitzki / Josh Howard forward tandem. I think it's worth experimenting with that type of arrangement since it's my belief Green would make an excellent SF if he didn't have to guard big guys. KD is a lot longer and even though he isn't strong he'd have more success with that down the road, or so the thinking goes..

Worth experimenting with for sure. Do you really see that sort of team being better than Dallas has been though? They've had some pretty solid PG's, one of the best 6th men, and now made a push to improve their defense and rebounding even further (especially if you consider they almost signed Gortat). At least Dirk rebounds like a center already. I could see Durant battling many of the new age PF's though, so it could prove fruitful. Not like Beasely, Bosh, Aldridge, or Charlie V are built like tanks or super rebounders themselves.

[dre_1614]

I highly highly doubt Jeff Green is going to be traded. Doesn't seem like a Presti type move. In only 2 years Jeff is like the big brother to Durant. When we win a championship(whenever that is, but it will happen) Green will be a big part of that team's success I guarantee you. Jeff Green has too many positive things going for him that you can overlook his shortcomings, and he is such a hard worker I bet those shortcomings won't be so bad down the road.

[penzias]

I'm (slowly) warming up to the idea wiff seems to have that Kevin Durant may eventually be the ipso-facto PF, and Jeff Green can play a traditional SF role. Think kind of like Dirk Nowitzki / Josh Howard forward tandem. I think it's worth experimenting with that type of arrangement since it's my belief Green would make an excellent SF if he didn't have to guard big guys. KD is a lot longer and even though he isn't strong he'd have more success with that down the road, or so the thinking goes..

I can't see Durant as a full time PF in the NBA, he lacks the strenght and toughness and with his frame he hardly can gain much weight without losing speed and agility.
Your future starter PF i'm pretty sure will be Ibaka. I've been following the guy closely since he arrived to Spain and his natural talent + work ethic will carry him to the top. I might be too much high on him but i see him as a borderline all star at worst in a couple of years.
So my bet for the 2012 WCF team would be something like:

Westbrook
Harden
Durant
Ibaka
xxxxx

With Green as 6th man.

[HomieOmey]

I understand the idea of LeBron playing more and more PF, but it's going to take a lot for me to come around on the Durant at PF idea.

[wiff]

I understand the idea of LeBron playing more and more PF, but it's going to take a lot for me to come around on the Durant at PF idea.

Why? Once Durant fills outs I simply don't see the stretch. I wouldn't do it this year but neither KG or Dirk were Herculean in size when the moved to PF.

And this talk about Durant losing speed and athleticism because he fills out is ridiculous.

Shoe me a guy who filled out, got stronger and it became a negative.

I'm not talking about the kid looking like Arnold I'm talking about the kid filling out to and Andris Beidrins size.

[wizkid27]

Shoe me a guy who filled out, got stronger and it became a negative.

Vin Baker?

He filled out a lot...

[wiff]

I know you were kidding but there is a big difference between filling out and getting fat

[wizkid27]

Don't think Durant could benefit from some lessons from Robert Traylor? Kevin "Tractor" Durant... Sounds like a solid PF!

[HomieOmey]

I understand the idea of LeBron playing more and more PF, but it's going to take a lot for me to come around on the Durant at PF idea.

Why? Once Durant fills outs I simply don't see the stretch. I wouldn't do it this year but neither KG or Dirk were Herculean in size when the moved to PF.

Durant is just so effective on the perimeter that I don't see the point. If he shows he can improve his rebounding like Dirk did or that he can defend like KG can, I will be much more open to the idea. I just don't see the point when you can surround him with blue collar defenders who will hold down the team's defense and rebounding much more effectively.

When you look at James you see a guy who is already dominant down low and strong on the boards. His jumper could use a lot of work though, so pairing him with a perimeter oriented SF could benefit him in a lot of ways. You can't say the same for Durant.

You might get him to the point where he pretty much cancels out a player like Chris Bosh, but I rather have Durant dominate at SF while playing someone who can do a much better job at shutting down Chris Bosh.

[slick_watts]

I understand the idea of LeBron playing more and more PF, but it's going to take a lot for me to come around on the Durant at PF idea.

Why? Once Durant fills outs I simply don't see the stretch. I wouldn't do it this year but neither KG or Dirk were Herculean in size when the moved to PF.

Durant is just so effective on the perimeter that I don't see the point. If he shows he can improve his rebounding like Dirk did or that he can defend like KG can, I will be much more open to the idea. I just don't see the point when you can surround him with blue collar defenders who will hold down the team's defense and rebounding much more effectively.

When you look at James you see a guy who is already dominant down low and strong on the boards. His jumper could use a lot of work though, so pairing him with a perimeter oriented SF could benefit him in a lot of ways. You can't say the same for Durant.

You might get him to the point where he pretty much cancels out a player like Chris Bosh, but I rather have Durant dominate at SF while playing someone who can do a much better job at shutting down Chris Bosh.

The Thunder would probably benefit more from obtaining a legitimate PF who can defend the position and leaving KD at the SF position, I agree. KD seems natural at SF, as opposed to both Garnett and Dirk who looked more comfortable at PF by this time in their careers. I think it's an interesting idea that Durant could eventually play PF effectively, but it probably wouldn't be the optimal setup.