Rios considered one of the most overpaid in sports

Kevin Willis · Post #1 » by **Kevin Willis** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:35 pm

Here's is an interesting article about Alex Rios and why he may be considered one of the most overpaid in all of sports. I think Wells is even more than Rios - the most unclutch hitter in the Blue Jays line up - but I can't disagree with Rios.

http://ca.askmen.com/top_10/sports/top- ... es_1p.html

Modern_epic · Post #2 » by **Modern_epic** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:12 pm

Yeah, you knew that article was going to be wrong when it started by claiming the Sox were set in the outfield.

Were Alex Rios actually being paid superstar money, that article would be true. However, given that he is being paid good, maybe great, player money, it isn't close to true. His bat any year but this one (and this one isn't that bad), plus average D? That guy gets paid around $10 million a season in a depressed economy.

Also, I can't tell if you are trying to call Wells or Rios the most unclutch hitter in the jays lineup. If you meant Rios, it isn't true. If you mean Wells, it is true for this year, but only this year. Wells is certainly more overpaid, though.

Edit: I should point out, also, that the list is about the players who will be seen as the most overpaid in sports soon, not who is currently the most overpaid.

Hoopstarr · Post #3 » by **Hoopstarr** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:37 pm

The article completely ignores his defense, which except for this average year, has been good enough to be the best among all OF.

And also, it's Ask Men

jakstad · Post #4 » by **jakstad** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:39 pm

How is wells clutch??? This year ESPECIALLY, last year too...

W/RISP is his greatest fault...it's always an infield pop-up, strikeout, or my favorite slow chopper to short. He just has a bad hitting stance, great power and muscle, but cant hit a beach ball...

He is vastly overpaid for a guy that hit 32 homeruns one year...big deal, 32 home runs 100+ rbi isn't very hard to find anymore. Adam Dunn could get you much higher numbers for half the money. fck, Adam Lind will get you those numbers for 1/10 of the money...

REally bad player IMO

Post #5 » by **tsherkin** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:07 pm

Wells hit .302 with RISP in '06, then .278 in '07, then .302 last year.

His .193 baRISP this year is a gigantic anomaly.

LieCheatSteal · Post #6 » by **LieCheatSteal** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:38 pm

Where the hell is Vernon Wells in all of this? I'm surprised he didn't make number 1.

Raps in 4 · Post #7 » by **Raps in 4** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:30 am

Wells should top that list. He should be paid $1-2 million/year for his kind of productions, not $100+ million.

Hoopstarr · Post #8 » by **Hoopstarr** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:06 am

Modern_epic wrote:Edit: I should point out, also, that the list is about the players who will be seen as the most overpaid in sports soon, not who is currently the most overpaid.

Modern_epic · Post #9 » by **Modern_epic** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:08 am

Hoopstarr wrote:
Modern_epic wrote:Edit: I should point out, also, that the list is about the players who will be seen as the most overpaid in sports soon, not who is currently the most overpaid.

Thanks, I considered repeating myself, but it seemed a bit gauche.

Post #10 » by **Schad** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:20 am

Bob Elliott can be hit or miss, but this sounds somewhat legit:

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Baseball/MLB/ ... 6-sun.html

I know one team hot and heavy after Rios was the St. Louis Cardinals, before they added Matt Holliday from Oakland," said a National League executive.

And another American League team was in on the Rios chase, too.

"We made a good offer for him. It wasn't what we offered for Roy Halladay, but it was maybe half of that," said an AL scout. "Then they give him away and get zero players in return. How does that work?

So he might be overpaid, but there were at least three teams willing to take him on, and two willing to add value to do so.

It also suggests further (and some might disagree, that's fair) that the decision to let Rios go came from Rogers; JP thought he had value but didn't feel compelled to move him, but after the non-waiver deadline Rogers stepped in and forced his hand.

If so, there's a fair amount of blame to go around...JP for failing to read the internal tea leaves and being proactive before the mandate to cut salary got a little more desperate, and Rogers for mandating a panic move when we could have gotten a return at a later date.

Kevin Willis · Post #11 » by **Kevin Willis** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:33 am

Modern_epic wrote:Yeah, you knew that article was going to be wrong when it started by claiming the Sox were set in the outfield.

Were Alex Rios actually being paid superstar money, that article would be true. However, given that he is being paid good, maybe great, player money, it isn't close to true. His bat any year but this one (and this one isn't that bad), plus average D? That guy gets paid around $10 million a season in a depressed economy.

Also, I can't tell if you are trying to call Wells or Rios the most unclutch hitter in the jays lineup. If you meant Rios, it isn't true. If you mean Wells, it is true for this year, but only this year. Wells is certainly more overpaid, though.

Edit: I should point out, also, that the list is about the players who will be seen as the most overpaid in sports soon, not who is currently the most overpaid.

I meant Wells is the most unclutch hitter for the Jays right now and Wells is definitely more overpaid right now. I think Rios will be the most overpaid - he has all the tools to be a star but something in him that I don't know - just doesn't get it I think. Cito, Barfield have said they've given him tips but he doesn't really listen. If he doesn't listen he won't improve and if he doesn't improve he will be the most overpaid. At his age he should be reaching his peak not getting worse.

Edit: Wells has 50 RBIs right now. 50?? Jays are one of the leaders in the league in one run loses. If Wells was at 75 RBIs how much better would our record be. Think about it, if he had a regular year we could be contending for a Wild card right now.

Kevin Willis · Post #12 » by **Kevin Willis** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:46 am

Schadenfreude wrote:Bob Elliott can be hit or miss, but this sounds somewhat legit:

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Baseball/MLB/ ... 6-sun.html

I know one team hot and heavy after Rios was the St. Louis Cardinals, before they added Matt Holliday from Oakland," said a National League executive.

And another American League team was in on the Rios chase, too.

"We made a good offer for him. It wasn't what we offered for Roy Halladay, but it was maybe half of that," said an AL scout. "Then they give him away and get zero players in return. How does that work?

So he might be overpaid, but there were at least three teams willing to take him on, and two willing to add value to do so.

It also suggests further (and some might disagree, that's fair) that the decision to let Rios go came from Rogers; JP thought he had value but didn't feel compelled to move him, but after the non-waiver deadline Rogers stepped in and forced his hand.

If so, there's a fair amount of blame to go around...JP for failing to read the internal tea leaves and being proactive before the mandate to cut salary got a little more desperate, and Rogers for mandating a panic move when we could have gotten a return at a later date.

Good point. Rogers mandate can be to start fresh next year and wipe clean the mistakes from the JP era. That might mean not taking back any players that JP might want because the new GM might not want them, especially if they know who the new GM is and he says - I don't like it.

They didn't get much for Rolen either which surprised me. Apparently there is a first base prospect that they could've taken. I would feel more comfortable building the team around a Rolen type gritty player than a Rios/Wells. I hope Wells snaps out of it next year because his contract is untradeable and Chicago will find out how overpaid Rios really is in a year or two.

Post #13 » by **Schad** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 3:01 am

With regards to Rolen, the first base prospect you're talking about is Yonder Alonso, and in all actuality we didn't have a hope in hell of getting him...his name popped up initially after the trade, but he's their best prospect and everyone was stunned when he was mentioned. As it turned out, he was mentioned in error.

As a consolation prize, we got their second-best prospect, Zach Stewart, a 22 year old who immediately becomes one of our best minor league assets. Which was an extraordinary return, all told.

Modern_epic · Post #14 » by **Modern_epic** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 6:01 am

If Wells had 75 RBIs instead of 50, assuming a random distribution of those RBIs, we would still be no where near the WC.

We have lost 1 out of 6 games played by one run. That means 4 of those games would have had an extra RBI by Wells. Assuming that we then win 50% of those now tied games, and you get two extra wins.

If you didn't know, we are 13.5 games back.

Post #15 » by **tsherkin** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 6:55 am

We need Wells hitting .280 with RISP and hitting dingers, is what we need.

Kevin Willis · Post #16 » by **Kevin Willis** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:22 pm

Modern_epic wrote:If Wells had 75 RBIs instead of 50, assuming a random distribution of those RBIs, we would still be no where near the WC.

We have lost 1 out of 6 games played by one run. That means 4 of those games would have had an extra RBI by Wells. Assuming that we then win 50% of those now tied games, and you get two extra wins.

If you didn't know, we are 13.5 games back.

Yes right now they are 13+ games back however they've played especially bad in the last couple of weeks. If you up Wells production around the time period of before the trade deadline (when they were still above .500) then yes they would still be fighting for the Wildcard spot. You can't hide the fact that Wells was supposed to be the main contributor to the team and his bad play has hurt the Blue Jay's offense.

Edit: My bad. Plus you're making too many excuses for Wells bad play. Manny on the Dodgers is greater than Manny not on the Dodgers. Why because of his impact in the order, how pitchers pitch to him and what type of pitches others in the lineup receive. Those couple of games applied when the Jays were 5 -6 games out makes a world of difference but also his presense as a big bat gives others in the lineup fatter pitches to hit since they would try to pitch around him.

But if you can't see the impact of a good hitting Wells would have on our lineup then I don't know what to say. We might as well cut him since he obviously has no impact on the games we win.

Modern_epic · Post #17 » by **Modern_epic** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:06 pm

Kevin Willis wrote:
Modern_epic wrote:If Wells had 75 RBIs instead of 50, assuming a random distribution of those RBIs, we would still be no where near the WC.

We have lost 1 out of 6 games played by one run. That means 4 of those games would have had an extra RBI by Wells. Assuming that we then win 50% of those now tied games, and you get two extra wins.

If you didn't know, we are 13.5 games back.

Yes right now they are 13+ games back however they've played especially bad in the last couple of weeks. If you up Wells production around the time period of before the trade deadline (when they were still above .500) then yes they would still be fighting for the Wildcard spot. You can't hide the fact that Wells was supposed to be the main contributor to the team and his bad play has hurt the Raptors offense.

Wells really has blown a lot of layups this year.

It is a two game difference. I don't care when those two games come, we would still be 11 games back right now. Unless you are trying to say this would have made JP be a buyer at the deadline. Then we might be only 8 games back. Plus we would have wasted a bunch of assets.