Will Mario make Hawks?

[killbuckner]

If you wishcast being able to knock down an open 3 then a whole lot of players get dramatically better. Imagine Josh Smith or Al Horford being able to consistently do that and how much better they become. Being able to knock down open 3's and there are tons of players who get remarkably better- West is not unique in that.

And I don't think that Mario West has any ability at all to guard a Tony Parker or Devin Harris. He could defend a big PG like Andre Miller or Chauncey Billups but I want a guy who can stick with the small guys. Ironically Speedy Claxton before injuries is that kind of player.

[MaceCase]

That's such a terrible example. How many minimum salary players actually contribute? How many more get waived and go to the D-League or wash up in Euro-ball? The fact is that with most minimum salary players you're lucky to get any sort of contribution at all.

If Mario comes back and shows me that he can be at least a passable spot-up shooter, I'm fine with him being on my team.

That's the point now innit? How many of these scrubs who should have washed out or gone off to prove their wares in other leagues spent years on an NBA bench collecting a guranteed contract (those that were 2nd round or undrafted, not guranteed money 1st roundedrs)? Here we are debating giving a third year to perimeter player with zero perimeter skills whom we know everything about already rather than taking a gamble on any list of players with unrealized potential out there. If they washout, ohwell, we bring in another group the year after and the year after that till we find that player or players that can become a rotational player like a Morrow, Bynum, Moon, Shannon Brown etc. etc.

Sitting around handing out contracts to a bonafide scrub in Mario because you people think he is a hometown hero, will somehow perfect his league worst shot mechanics into a reliable 3 point shot, is fine because the end of the bench is populated by scrubs regardless are just all ridiculous. To say I'm being unfair to compare him to all those other minimum salaried players because they are rotational and Mario is deep bench is even more asinine. Uhm hello what league starter, sixth man, key role player's agent asks for a minimum contract to sign? These guys were signed as 12th men and worked their way to a position where they couldn't be kept on the bench under other viable players. Mario's only achievment is that he's less of a scrub than an injured Speedy Claxton, Thomas Gardner and Acie Law, the members of our esteemed backcourt depth.

[JoshB914]

^^^ Why do you think Mario doesn't have the potential to develop into at least a fringe rotation player? He's already a good defender and has the athleticism to become a solid garbage guy around the basket (which we saw flashes of when he was given minutes). He obviously has to develop some other things, but the potential is absolutely there for him to have a decent career as a 10-15 mpg guy.

I challenge you to come up with a better alternative to fill that role.

[MaceCase]

^^^ Why do you think Mario doesn't have the potential to develop into at least a fringe rotation player? He's already a good defender and has the athleticism to become a solid garbage guy around the basket (which we saw flashes of when he was given minutes). He obviously has to develop some other things, but the potential is absolutely there for him to have a decent career as a 10-15 mpg guy.

I challenge you to come up with a better alternative to fill that role.

This is where I call out your ****. At what level has Mario shown the talent and potential to be a NBA player? You are talking about "it's obvious he needs to develope" but I'm sorry, people at his age in this league do not just develope talent. I've watched his shooting mechanics and trust me Chills jumper looks like Ray Allen's compared to Mario's. He is not going to destroy and rebuild that shot in 1-3 seasons where he will be a legitimate 10-15 minute player. MrH suggested he could have a Greg Buckner type career but Greg was atleast a scorer in his college days, hell I even think he is the alltime leading scorer in Clemson history because Fratello never fails to mention it during broadcasts. That never translated into his NBA career but atleast he has shown a proficiency to hit an open shot and a freethrow for that matter.

I don't profess to be a player scout so I can't mention who's next down the pipeline but when I see players like the ones I've already mentioned that were in a similar situation to Mario, heck even in and out of our own camps (last year Von Waffer) I wonder out loud WTF is this scrub still doing on our roster? The first year I'm okay, BK failed to indentify good 2nd round or free agent talent so you suffer through them. The second year I give him a pass, Sund just got the job and I guess was too busy to fully evaluate the roster beforehand. This year? If he makes the squad yet again it's because Sund brought in one armed, one eyed geriatrics to compete against him for that spot and that my friend does not sound a victory for Mario.

Hell just so you don't say I'm running away from your "challenge" off the top of my head a player like Gerald Green has shown far more in this league and still has potential for more all at, that's right you guessed it, the same salary as the second worst perimeter player in the league.

[raleigh]

^^^ Why do you think Mario doesn't have the potential to develop into at least a fringe rotation player?

He's 25 and has played, what, 5 seasons between GT and Atlanta? He's not suddenly becoming a viable option.

As far as finding a better option, you could find dozens of players who can play defense in the NBA, especially if that's all they're asked to do.

[playa_lev]

We argue about a thing that has no significance, about the 14.th or 15.th spot on the roster. Best case scenario the end of the bench. You really don’t have any expectations for a guy who is sitting at the end of your bench, so if you put it this way it is almost irrelevant who is dressed in that uniform. It is important, that those guys who will play only in the garbage time, or not play at all, at least can give a challenge for the rest of the team in practice. IMO, Mario is that type of guy… plus as being said before, he is a hometown guy, a fan favorite material. If you expect some contribution from the bench, we have already a couple of other guys: Zaza, Joe Smith, Mo Evans, Crawford, Teague … this list is pretty solid, whit no more room for other players.

I understand though where the “haters” come from. It would be nice to sign Gerald Green (or other young talent), I love his game, and I think he will be doing well once he gets the minutes needed, but in this Hawk team is no need for more talent, because they won’t get enough playing time to develop into contributors.

[killbuckner]

You have a guy on the roster because either you think he can help you now or you think he can help you in the future. I don't see a role for West to help the team now and I haven't seen anything to make me think that he is going to develop into something worthwhile in the future. I'd rather spend that $$ on an UDFA or a D league player. If West goes to the D league and learns to shoot the 3 then go ahead and sign him again.

[raleigh]

And, again, 200 minutes is NOT 14/15th roster spot kind of minutes...

[HoopsGuru25]

Looking at his total minutes makes no sense. How many of those minutes came in games where we were down(or up) by 20-30 or some point or in the few games after we clinched the 4th seed? Bringing in someone to replace a guy who only plays just about all his minutes in garbage time or at the end of quarters is not going to impact the teams win total.

[MaceCase]

Looking at his total minutes makes no sense. How many of those minutes came in games where we were down(or up) by 20-30 or some point or in the few games after we clinched the 4th seed? Bringing in someone to replace a guy who only plays just about all his minutes in garbage time or at the end of quarters is not going to impact the teams win total.

Uhm what team were you watching last year? You speak as if we clinched the 4th in February and had a massive point differential......we didn't. You seem to forget that when we were going through our injuries we even had to start Mario something to the effect of 3 games and he was key sub in many others.

Again it's trully asinine to say that you are signing players to at minimum 400-800K just to sit on your bench. You pay them to contribute either now or somewhere down the line and when it comes to injuries which always happen it's best to have a sub that can actually contribute something without only being better than a 40 year old. The reason why Woody does his best to only play Mario 30 seconds at the end of quarters is because the negatives he has on offense are mitigated by the few seconds he would actually be playing on O. Practically any other player in the league can be counted on to contribute beyond a "Mario".

Had our scouting staff gone beyond just trying fill the bench with GT scrubs we could have had a player like Shannon Brown, same height, same weight, better defender, better shooter, better athlete, same price. And we all saw how the Lakers benefitted from playing their 12th man over Farmer, Vujacic and even had him cutting into FIsh's minutes when it counted rather than just relegating themselves to saying "why even bother worrying about who's going to fill the end of our active roster everynight."

[HoopsGuru25]

The only 3 games he started were the last 3. We won the 1st to clinch home court and the last 2 games(where over 1/4th of his total minutes came from)were meaningless. Would you have felt better about the state of the team if someone else like Maurice Ager or Jeremy Richardson had played in those games instead even though it didn't have any impact on our season? I have no idea why Mario West(or any other scrub)being on the team bothers you that much to the point where you have to write an essay about it.

[MaceCase]

The only 3 games he started were the last 3. We won the 1st to clinch home court and the last 2 games(where over 1/4th of his total minutes came from)were meaningless. Would you have felt better about the state of the team if someone else like Maurice Ager or Jeremy Richardson had played in those games instead even though it didn't have any impact on our season? I have no idea why Mario West(or any other scrub)being on the team bothers you that much to the point where you have to write an essay about it.

Would you be happy with 3 years of Maurice Ager or Jeremy Richardson? That's my problem with 'Rio. We should look into extending RandMo too while we're at it and not bother scouting any dleaguer, euroballer or undrafted college rook. Just fire that whole staff like the Grizz and keep retaining our scrubs whom even you recognize don't and can't make any impact on our team because apparently the only focus of the GM is to fill spots 1-10, the rest might aswell be empty roster spots.

[JoshB914]

^^^ Why do you think Mario doesn't have the potential to develop into at least a fringe rotation player? He's already a good defender and has the athleticism to become a solid garbage guy around the basket (which we saw flashes of when he was given minutes). He obviously has to develop some other things, but the potential is absolutely there for him to have a decent career as a 10-15 mpg guy.

I challenge you to come up with a better alternative to fill that role.

This is where I call out your ****. At what level has Mario shown the talent and potential to be a NBA player? You are talking about "it's obvious he needs to develope" but I'm sorry, people at his age in this league do not just develope talent. I've watched his shooting mechanics and trust me Chills jumper looks like Ray Allen's compared to Mario's. He is not going to destroy and rebuild that shot in 1-3 seasons where he will be a legitimate 10-15 minute player. MrH suggested he could have a Greg Buckner type career but Greg was atleast a scorer in his college days, hell I even think he is the alltime leading scorer in Clemson history because Fratello never fails to mention it during broadcasts. That never translated into his NBA career but atleast he has shown a proficiency to hit an open shot and a freethrow for that matter.

I don't profess to be a player scout so I can't mention who's next down the pipeline but when I see players like the ones I've already mentioned that were in a similar situation to Mario, heck even in and out of our own camps (last year Von Waffer) I wonder out loud WTF is this scrub still doing on our roster? The first year I'm okay, BK failed to indentify good 2nd round or free agent talent so you suffer through them. The second year I give him a pass, Sund just got the job and I guess was too busy to fully evaluate the roster beforehand. This year? If he makes the squad yet again it's because Sund brought in one armed, one eyed geriatrics to compete against him for that spot and that my friend does not sound a victory for Mario.

Hell just so you don't say I'm running away from your "challenge" off the top of my head a player like Gerald Green has shown far more in this league and still has potential for more all at, that's right you guessed it, the same salary as the second worst perimeter player in the league.

Wafer is a good example of a guy of similar stature who blossomed. I'll give you that.

All I'm saying is Rio has a lot of the skills required of a fringe rotation player. He's a good defender, wins you extra possessions with his hustle, and gets the team and crowd fired up when he makes a play.

I just don't see the problem with having a final guy off the bench who works his butt off, is loved by his teammates, doesn't whine about lack of PT, and doesn't cost much of anything either.

And how could we have gotten Shannon Brown?

[MaceCase]

^^^

And how could we have gotten Shannon Brown?

Brown was a free agent when he signed with the Bobcats last summer before being traded as filler in the Radmonovic deal to the Lakers.