Have the Celts done enough?

[Kefa461]

Just some guys opinion.......


But Bill Walton favors the Celtics: "The three legitimate contenders in the East all got significantly better, but Boston easily improved the most. The title will come down to who controls the paint. The Celtics -- with superior talent, depth and versatility up front -- have positioned themselves perfectly for a run at No. 18." Los Angeles Times

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_ ... -east.html

[JSABleedsGreen]

But you can only use one starting caliber guy and there is no one that you could have traded Ray Allen for that could have held his jock, so you end making your team worse. You can only play 5 guys at a time.

Our bench is now made up of bench players, guys who can and have started but more importantly have had success and experience coming off the bench, even Sheed has done that. It isn't always that easy for a someone who is used to starting and playing 30-35 mpg to transition to coming in cold and only playing 20 mpg.

The pg issue is not about getting someone else, it is about Daniels and House working out as a tandem because of their skill sets they actually need each other, we would need a pg who can shoot the 3 to pair with Daniels or a SG who can handle the ball to pair with House, it either works or they are both useless.

Meh. Ray can no longer play defense or take anyone off the dribble. He's a $20m outside shooting specialist.

Could have gotten a tandem like Stephen Jackson and Maggette easily enough.

Or Richard Jefferson and whoever.

And still gotten Sheed.

Rondo/House
Jackson/Daniels
Pierce/Maggette
KG/Baby
Perkins/Sheed

Not sure how you guys feel but Ray Allen is miles ahead of Stephen Jackson and Maggette. Ray Allen is way more productive than them and can pass the rock. Neither of those guys can pass the rock, they are only productive when they have the ball and are looking to score. Second if i'm the celtics why do i trade away a guy who fits so well with Pierce and KG and replace with a guy who doesn't. Remember this is the same guy who the first year (the year they won by the way) in green had his lowest numbers because he had to get used to what his role was in the offense. KG needed touches and Pierce needed touches......the one on the back burner was Ray and he took that for the team. Look what happened last year before KG's injury, he figured out his spots and where he needed to be in order to flourish with these two other stars and Ray was deadly!!!! Then the KG injury happened and he had to adjust his game again because there was no longer an inside presence.

Tell me how many guys run around like Ray (besides RIP Hamilton) and wear you down and knock down 3's and jumpers curling around picks the way he does? and be accurate the way he does? No way in hell Jackson or Magette can even do that. That's an important part that Ray brings to the celtics. You run a double screen with KG and Perk for Ray and teams are so worried about Ray's ability to light it up that it leaves KG and Perk for easy alley oops or baskets 5 to 10 feet away from the rim. Those others players will just stall the offense.

You don't need to be driving or take players off the dribble all the time. It's not one on one it's team ball. Rondo does a great job of taking people of the dribble....you only need one, you don't need another player in a set offense doing that. The Cavs have one player that take you off the dribble (Lebron), the MAgic have one player too, and it's not VC, it's Jameer Nelson. The Spurs have one player, Tony Parker. The Lakers have one player, Kobe. Portland has one, Roy. You don't need two or 3 players with dribble penetration because it stalls the offense, specially when you players that work in a set offense. Rondo can do it and kick the ball to Pierce or Ray.....or hand off to KG and Perk......or just finish it himself....remember that dunk up the middle in the playoffs on Orlando.....

[sully00]

But you can only use one starting caliber guy and there is no one that you could have traded Ray Allen for that could have held his jock, so you end making your team worse. You can only play 5 guys at a time.

Our bench is now made up of bench players, guys who can and have started but more importantly have had success and experience coming off the bench, even Sheed has done that. It isn't always that easy for a someone who is used to starting and playing 30-35 mpg to transition to coming in cold and only playing 20 mpg.

The pg issue is not about getting someone else, it is about Daniels and House working out as a tandem because of their skill sets they actually need each other, we would need a pg who can shoot the 3 to pair with Daniels or a SG who can handle the ball to pair with House, it either works or they are both useless.

Meh. Ray can no longer play defense or take anyone off the dribble. He's a $20m outside shooting specialist.

Could have gotten a tandem like Stephen Jackson and Maggette easily enough.

Or Richard Jefferson and whoever.

And still gotten Sheed.

Rondo/House
Jackson/Daniels
Pierce/Maggette
KG/Baby
Perkins/Sheed

First of all no you couldn't. The Warriors would not deal you Stephen Jackson and Corey Maggette. They may well have done Maggette and Crawford but they are not the kind of players you can add to a contender, they suck as teammates and apparently hate each other.

Now while he has some character issues I really like Stephen Jackson, he can defend and I think he is the kind of player you can add to a contender, but he is clearly a down grade from Ray Allen. Lets be honest here Ray has never been a defender that isn't why he is here or going to get enshrined in Springfield, it is shooting the ball and Ray is great and Stephen is pretty much not.

But you nailed precisely what I was talking about with dealing Ray. Not only do you downgrade you managed to do it with two guys who are owed 9-10 mil a season for the next 4 years. If Jackson and Maggette were championship players then the Warriors would not suck so bad.

Jefferson was dealt for nothing because he is as a player the caliber of a guy like Jackson but paid like Ray. Whether it was the injuries, the situation, or playing with Vince Carter he has gone from a solid defender to one of the worst at his position. That should get better in SA, but it is still a situation were you get younger than Ray but worse.

So meh your making the team worse.

[Edug27]

This has to be one of the most nit-picky threads i've ever come across. Our team is basically the same as last season, with acouple key improvements. Below is the basic main rotation prior to Garnett getting hurt:

Rondo / House / Pruitt
Allen / House / Tony Allen
Pierce / Tony Allen
Garnett / Davis & Powe
Perkins / Davis & Powe

**Then we picked up Mikki Moore and Marbury prior to the playoffs. Both players turned out to be unsuccessful moves. Mikki Moore never got the jist of the offense, and Marbuy just wasnt his old self.

This will the most probable rotation heading into the first game of the season:

Rondo / House / Daniels
Allen / House / Daniels
Pierce / Daniels
Garnett / Wallace / Davis
Perkins / Wallace

Pierce finally has a legitimate backup. Daniels is capable of being a scorer off the bench, and if we perhaps want to give PP rest for a game, I dont think our offense will take a big hit with Daniels starting in the SF position. He was a starter in Indy. That is something we did not have last season.

Concerning Powe, he split time with Davis last season. They would flip flop minutes. Besides the fact thats hes hurt for a majority of next season, we brought in a veteran PF (Wallace) who can play both PF and C postitions. Once again, if Wallace was needed to start at either position, our offense would not miss a beat.

Loss - Powe, Marbury, Moore, Pruitt
Gained - Daniels (starter in indy), Wallace (starter in Detriot), Sheldon Williams (is he any worse that Moore?)

And thats not an improvement?