Sessions Update:Ramon signs T-Wolves OS (page 310 update)

[BDUB_30]

the only diffrence is , we havent given hammond enough time to see if he can fill the bc up . Where as Ramons situation is in the present and we have more concrete evidence .


Trust me a couple years from now , if were a fringe playoff team ...their will be enough evidence to justify hammond critisims .

Wait what? We've had enough time to know what kind of player Ramon is (a season and change), but not enough to know what kind of GM Hammond is (2 offseasons and a season)? How does that make any sense?

Even if you equate Ramon's Ds work and Hammond's first offseason, they're just about equal. And if you count this offseason vs no summer work from Ramon, then we actually have MORE evidence of what Hammond is vs what Ramon is.

He has now spent nearly as much money as last season and will likely field a team with less wins and certainly less if Redd and Bogut would have been on the floor for the entire last season.

I'm being patient with Hammond, but be fair.

You miss the point , as usual .


me claiming weve got evidence of ramon was in regards to how the leauge and this team views Ramon. You can dance on it all u want , but concidering nobody is uping any dough to him it speaks volumes . Future " ALL STARS" dont sit waiting for mle deals , get real.

[Nebula1]

You think because Ramon hasn't been offered a deal yet is concrete evidence that he has no value? That is simply an assumption.

It's equally possible that Hammond's number is high enough that neither the Knicks nor the Clippers will make an outright offer.

It's also possible there is a bigger trade in the works. It's also possible that Hammond is holding out for the best possible deal. He is in no rush to get this done.

You're only seeing the correlation you want to see. Fact is, from the start, Hammond has been very quiet about all of his deals prior to making them. You don't know what he is thinking.

[paulpressey25]

me claiming weve got evidence of ramon was in regards to how the leauge and this team views Ramon..

I know we are having fun here shooting the breeze, but to be fair, how many teams right now would ditch their current GM's and give Hammond full control at the moment? Probably about as many as would ditch their current starting PG for Ramon.

[BDUB_30]

You think because Ramon hasn't been offered a deal yet is concrete evidence that he has no value? That is simply an assumption.


.

Yeah , an assumption YOU made not me . Im sure he has value but its no where near what anyone on this forum thought it was but myself and a few others .

[drj]

When it comes to using the FA market to see the value of players, I think we need to consider that the economic downturn and lowered cap projections have made many owners shy to spend (-or given them a good excuse to be shy).

[Nebula1]

You think because Ramon hasn't been offered a deal yet is concrete evidence that he has no value? That is simply an assumption.


.

Yeah , an assumption YOU made not me . Im sure he has value but its no where near what anyone on this forum thought it was but myself and a few others .

Your words, not mine. How would it be my assumption when you are the one who stated it? Are you projecting your assumptions on me?

And your prognostication is based on what contract that has been offered? As far as I know, no deal has been made. Until then, you cannot determine what is actually happening with the negotiation simply based on your interpretations on non-events.

x did not happen, therefore y = time to dust off your Copi.

[Nebula1]

The way I see it is that we're in half-tank mode. Not yet on empty, so we aren't going to fill back up with a high draft pick, but the tank is still too empty to get us over .500

We've been a patchwork team since the 90s. Why buy a dvd player when you can fix your broken VCR??

[unklchuk]

"This is the bottom line: Hammond HAS contructed a WIN NOW roster. He's added veterans, he's going all the way up to the lux tax, and no big contracts were cleared. In HIS MIND he obviously feels this is a playoff team. If they do not make it, it will say a lot about his talent evaluation abilities, bottom line. We'll let the season bear everything out."

I believe that's too strong. I think he wants to be refreshingly mediocre next season, and better the next on the way to contending. If it was a true Win Now roster, he'd be signing old, almost-exhausted vets. His signings are 27 - with years left.

Seems to me that because Hammond isn't doing what you'd like, you're assuming that he's doing the opposite. I think his strategy is Win Now While Building. Folks will think that's a perfect formula for going no where. I think it has a reasonable chance of working. If Trader John is as good as I hope.

[pasting_monkeys]

This season will show who is being a homer, who is being a pessimist, and who is being a realist. The proof is in the W/L. This is the bottom line: Hammond HAS contructed a WIN NOW roster. He's added veterans, he's going all the way up to the lux tax, and no big contracts were cleared. In HIS MIND he obviously feels this is a playoff team. If they do not make it, it will say a lot about his talent evaluation abilities, bottom line. We'll let the season bear everything out.

Didn't clear any big contracts? What was the RJ trade then?

And i think you're claimed insight into the MIND OF HAMMOND is completely off. I think Hammond believes this is a fringe playoff team AT BEST that will compete for that 7-8 seed, but is in no way a playoff lock.

If it was all about WIN NOW as you claim, RJ would not have been traded.

In almost every interview I've seen, when asked about the roster he's always said "We're not where we want to be." And i don't believe that that has changed. But what he has done so far, is put together a roster that will compete for a playoff spot, while improving our roster flexibility in the process. Hammond isn't in love with this roster at all, he will continue to build this team through trades up to the trade deadline, every contract that Hammond has acquired this offseason either expires or is otherwise very move-able. With all those expirings and players who will most likely exceed the value of their contract, he has put himself in an excellent position to acquire talent from teams looking to clear salary for the 2010 FA bonanza.

To me, the no.1 priority has always been on putting a team on the floor that will compete and generate some buzz amongst Milwaukee sports fans. Brandon Jennings and an uptempo style will achieve this IMO, will they get more wins? Who knows, but Jennings pushing the break will put butts in seats.

I really like Hammond's moves so far, they've made a lot sense, not when you think of purely WINNING NOW, but when the objective is to put an exciting product on the floor, while maximizing your opportunities to improve the roster in coming months.

[DanoMac]

This season will show who is being a homer, who is being a pessimist, and who is being a realist. The proof is in the W/L. This is the bottom line: Hammond HAS contructed a WIN NOW roster. He's added veterans, he's going all the way up to the lux tax, and no big contracts were cleared. In HIS MIND he obviously feels this is a playoff team. If they do not make it, it will say a lot about his talent evaluation abilities, bottom line. We'll let the season bear everything out.

Didn't clear any big contracts? What was the RJ trade then?

And i think you're claimed insight into the MIND OF HAMMOND is completely off. I think Hammond believes this is a fringe playoff team AT BEST that will compete for that 7-8 seed, but is in no way a playoff lock.

If it was all about WIN NOW as you claim, RJ would not have been traded.

In almost every interview I've seen, when asked about the roster he's always said "We're not where we want to be." And i don't believe that that has changed. But what he has done so far, is put together a roster that will compete for a playoff spot, while improving our roster flexibility in the process. Hammond isn't in love with this roster at all, he will continue to build this team through trades up to the trade deadline, every contract that Hammond has acquired this offseason either expires or is otherwise very move-able. With all those expirings and players who will most likely exceed the value of their contract, he has put himself in an excellent position to acquire talent from teams looking to clear salary for the 2010 FA bonanza.

To me, the no.1 priority has always been on putting a team on the floor that will compete and generate some buzz amongst Milwaukee sports fans. Brandon Jennings and an uptempo style will achieve this IMO, will they get more wins? Who knows, but Jennings pushing the break will put butts in seats.

I really like Hammond's moves so far, they've made a lot sense, not when you think of purely WINNING NOW, but when the objective is to put an exciting product on the floor, while maximizing your opportunities to improve the roster in coming months.

Very much agree. Good post.

[raferfenix]

Yeah I think the arguments about Hammond screwing the Bucks because he wants to win now is ignoring the RJ trade. Delfino, Ukic, and Warrick are all small potatoes contract wise comparatively, especially since they come off the books next summer. It does betray GAD's principle of not spending so freely on those kind of guys as opposed to wreaping savings, but if some combination of those guys ends up producing much more than expected then it very well might have been worth the risk.

This plan certainly didn't work out last year--Tyronne Lue and Ridnour were the definition of underwhelming--but I do like Delfino and Warrick more than either of those guys.

[BDUB_30]

I dont think luke means hammonds expectations are to make the playoffs , i think what he means is , Hammond is without a doubt trying to . I agree with that 100% . The proof will be in the playing time and who gets it .


We have youth at almost every position , if skiles goes with the vets ( which im sure he will ) then without a doubt JH is trying to win and not just develop talent . If you go with delfino , over a ja or moute at the 3 for 30+ minutes a game , you are doing that because you want to limit rookie esque mistakes at the postion . Same would be with a ridnour over bj at the 1 , or a warrcik over erson at the 4 .


The logical conclusion to this is , hammond is without a doubt shooting for the playoffs otherwise he wouldnt of went out and aquired these guys. Were going to see ridnour over bj , delfino over moute / ja , warrick over erson / moute . and to a lesser extent bell over meeks . I dont think its a bad idea but boy i tell ya if these team isnt playing well and 8-12 games under 500 in jan . Pull the damn plug on it the whole f'n thing and just cut them young guys loose. I have no problems for a win / while we upgrade the talent on team approach , but if its not working , then get something out of the season and let these young guys get the burn . I know some folks like the hot or cold mentality but sometimes you have to go thru the options . I think this team could be very good but im open to the possibility of us being very bad as well. Ya really dont know because their is so many questions marks on the roster . I dont think i remember a year in quite sometime where their is so many variables in regards to talent .


Delfino is capable of 15+ .. will he ?
Warrick is capable of 15+ ..will he ?
How good is bj ?
Can ridnour stay healthy ?
Will redd be ready and able all year and pass the ball and try on defense ?
Will bogut be conistant ?
Will Ja prove nba capable ?
Can meeks / erson contribute ?
Will bell bring it ?
and the big question : How will this team mesh ?

I mean the only damn thing we have that is concrete on this roster is moute ... I KNOW hes going to bring it , you just KNOW you can count on him . But for the rest of these douchbags , dweebs , outcasts , and buttmunches ... Nobody knows . But i disagree strongly that the talent isnt here to be a playoff team . I beleive it is , but all of the above variables are just way to hard to measure , its purely speculative to say either way , but i really beleive the talent is there . WHats even more interesting is their isnt that many nba teams that you can honestly say DOESNT have the talent . Making the playoffs isnt some huge accomplishment ( its not a bad thing either ) .

[BDUB_30]

This season will show who is being a homer, who is being a pessimist, and who is being a realist. The proof is in the W/L. This is the bottom line: Hammond HAS contructed a WIN NOW roster. He's added veterans, he's going all the way up to the lux tax, and no big contracts were cleared. In HIS MIND he obviously feels this is a playoff team. If they do not make it, it will say a lot about his talent evaluation abilities, bottom line. We'll let the season bear everything out.

Didn't clear any big contracts? What was the RJ trade then?

And i think you're claimed insight into the MIND OF HAMMOND is completely off. I think Hammond believes this is a fringe playoff team AT BEST that will compete for that 7-8 seed, but is in no way a playoff lock.

If it was all about WIN NOW as you claim, RJ would not have been traded.

In almost every interview I've seen, when asked about the roster he's always said "We're not where we want to be." And i don't believe that that has changed. But what he has done so far, is put together a roster that will compete for a playoff spot, while improving our roster flexibility in the process. Hammond isn't in love with this roster at all, he will continue to build this team through trades up to the trade deadline, every contract that Hammond has acquired this offseason either expires or is otherwise very move-able. With all those expirings and players who will most likely exceed the value of their contract, he has put himself in an excellent position to acquire talent from teams looking to clear salary for the 2010 FA bonanza.

To me, the no.1 priority has always been on putting a team on the floor that will compete and generate some buzz amongst Milwaukee sports fans. Brandon Jennings and an uptempo style will achieve this IMO, will they get more wins? Who knows, but Jennings pushing the break will put butts in seats.

I really like Hammond's moves so far, they've made a lot sense, not when you think of purely WINNING NOW, but when the objective is to put an exciting product on the floor, while maximizing your opportunities to improve the roster in coming months.

Very good post in regards to hammonds plan/ strategy . I think hes walking the fine line of putting out the best product he can while not commiting longterm cash , in an effort to keep our option open down the road when we can make some major decisions with our cap space .


This is simply the nature of the mess hes inherited . It may not be perfect , but his approach has been alot better then advertised . Im excited to have a gm thats got some damn vision , patience , and discipline .

[BucksRUS]

Hammond may have added Warrick and Delfino because they help the team win, but looking at their contracts they are positive tradeable assets. If you look at the roster he has created. It is somewhat more flexible than previous years and also a little deeper. It also wouldn't surprise me if their are more changes to the roster before training camp.

Here is what I would like the roster to be.

Jennings/Telfair/Ukic
Delfino/Meeks/Carrol
Howard/LRMAM/JA
Warrick/Ersan/Sharpe
Bogut/Dampier/Gadz

This roster probably won't win much more than the current one, but by clearing Redd's salary for expirings will make next year better salary wise. This roster would also allow for more playing time for all the youngsters.

[LUKE23]

he'd be signing old, almost-exhausted vets

Sorry, but that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. 27 years old is a veteran. Players have reached their peak at that age and are not going to improve. They aren't in decline yet either, but they are what they are.

Hammond is expecting playoffs with this roster. If he's not expecting playoffs, why is he spending money on non long-term pieces? That makes absolutely no sense.

[LUKE23]

To me, the no.1 priority has always been on putting a team on the floor that will compete and generate some buzz amongst Milwaukee sports fans.

They won't create a buzz unless they win. The Bucks fanbase is numb to bad teams at this point. If they don't win, there will be no fluctuation in attendance.

[Wise1]

"This is the bottom line: Hammond HAS contructed a WIN NOW roster. He's added veterans, he's going all the way up to the lux tax, and no big contracts were cleared. In HIS MIND he obviously feels this is a playoff team. If they do not make it, it will say a lot about his talent evaluation abilities, bottom line. We'll let the season bear everything out."

I believe that's too strong. I think he wants to be refreshingly mediocre next season, and better the next on the way to contending. If it was a true Win Now roster, he'd be signing old, almost-exhausted vets. His signings are 27 - with years left.

Seems to me that because Hammond isn't doing what you'd like, you're assuming that he's doing the opposite. I think his strategy is Win Now While Building. Folks will think that's a perfect formula for going no where. I think it has a reasonable chance of working. If Trader John is as good as I hope.

I'd agree with Chuk's assessment here.

[Wise1]

This season will show who is being a homer, who is being a pessimist, and who is being a realist. The proof is in the W/L. This is the bottom line: Hammond HAS contructed a WIN NOW roster. He's added veterans, he's going all the way up to the lux tax, and no big contracts were cleared. In HIS MIND he obviously feels this is a playoff team. If they do not make it, it will say a lot about his talent evaluation abilities, bottom line. We'll let the season bear everything out.

Didn't clear any big contracts? What was the RJ trade then?

And i think you're claimed insight into the MIND OF HAMMOND is completely off. I think Hammond believes this is a fringe playoff team AT BEST that will compete for that 7-8 seed, but is in no way a playoff lock.

If it was all about WIN NOW as you claim, RJ would not have been traded.

In almost every interview I've seen, when asked about the roster he's always said "We're not where we want to be." And i don't believe that that has changed. But what he has done so far, is put together a roster that will compete for a playoff spot, while improving our roster flexibility in the process. Hammond isn't in love with this roster at all, he will continue to build this team through trades up to the trade deadline, every contract that Hammond has acquired this offseason either expires or is otherwise very move-able. With all those expirings and players who will most likely exceed the value of their contract, he has put himself in an excellent position to acquire talent from teams looking to clear salary for the 2010 FA bonanza.

To me, the no.1 priority has always been on putting a team on the floor that will compete and generate some buzz amongst Milwaukee sports fans. Brandon Jennings and an uptempo style will achieve this IMO, will they get more wins? Who knows, but Jennings pushing the break will put butts in seats.

I really like Hammond's moves so far, they've made a lot sense, not when you think of purely WINNING NOW, but when the objective is to put an exciting product on the floor, while maximizing your opportunities to improve the roster in coming months.

I REALLY agree with the monkey here.

[LUKE23]

Warrick is signed one year and Delfino is only guaranteed one year. I don't see what age has to do with anything, Warrick and Delfino are players that are not improving their games, they are what they are. This is a win now roster. You think Hammond is adding salary with veterans to try and win 35 games? What sense does that make?

[BucksRUS]

he'd be signing old, almost-exhausted vets

Sorry, but that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. 27 years old is a veteran. Players have reached their peak at that age and are not going to improve. They aren't in decline yet either, but they are what they are.

Hammond is expecting playoffs with this roster. If he's not expecting playoffs, why is he spending money on non long-term pieces? That makes absolutely no sense.

Hammond added more tradeable assets in Warrick and Delfino, they will also improve the product you see on the floor until they are traded. They are more valuable than some of our other expirings such as Ridnour and Elson on the trade market.