Sessions Update:Ramon signs T-Wolves OS (page 310 update)

[LUKE23]

I supposed nobody is interested in David Lee either after his 16/11 season and him about to enter his prime. If Sessions is a UFA, he's already signed, and at higher than either Delfino/Warrick signed for, of that I'm certain. You can pretend RFA vs. UFA plays no role, but it is just not based in reality.

But as far as impact on this team in terms of W/L, Sessions has more than either Delfino or Warrick. To say we shouldn't sign him at $4M just because it is multiple years is comical to me, when he's a 23 year old PG with promise, vs. a couple 27 year old forwards who are not going to improve one bit from where they are now.

[BucksRUS]

$4M per year is overpaying Sessions, but $3.5M for Delfino and $3M for Warrick are great signings? What the hell are people drinking around here lately?

You know what you are getting with Warrick and Delfino. They have a track record. Sessions is a bigger risk because, what is his upside? How much will he improve or is this the finished product? If you sign him to a contract at 3yrs/$12 mil, could you move him later if you want and get something better in return. Based on this offseason I would say no.

[LUKE23]

You know what you are getting with Warrick and Delfino. They have a track record. Sessions is a bigger risk because, what is his upside? How much will he improve or is this the finished product? If you sign him to a contract at 3yrs/$12 mil, could you move him later if you want and get something better in return. Based on this offseason I would say no.

They have a track record? A track record of what? Sessions at age 23 arguably had a better season than either of them has ever had. How is it a risk to sign a 23 year old to that contract? I just cannot believe the rationale I'm seeing on this forum.

[emunney]

I think you really only need to look at how quickly the chase for Warrick heated up after his QO was pulled if you want to check on the difference between UFAs and RFAs. If Ramon was willing or able to sign a 1 yr/3m deal, it would have been done a long time ago. As soon as Memphis pulled their offer, Warrick was both.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

with the team weve assembled, sessions would be a marginal upgrade in talent...maybe. hed be a sideshow waiting to happen with jennings. and as an asset hed be just good enough on that contract to get offers of other teams junk in return.

thats been born out with the sign and trade offers we HAVE heard about this offseason.

better just to let him walk and stick to the guys at the positions of need on deals that can be moved or eliminated as we move forward.

youre looking at this backwards.

[emunney]

$4M per year is overpaying Sessions, but $3.5M for Delfino and $3M for Warrick are great signings? What the hell are people drinking around here lately?

You know what you are getting with Warrick and Delfino. They have a track record. Sessions is a bigger risk because, what is his upside? How much will he improve or is this the finished product? If you sign him to a contract at 3yrs/$12 mil, could you move him later if you want and get something better in return. Based on this offseason I would say no.

Based on this offseason, you might have a case -- though not necessarily -- but maybe the more important question is, "Why would you base it on this offseason?"

[LUKE23]

with the team weve assembled, sessions would be a marginal upgrade in talent...maybe.

He's a massive upgrade over either Ridnour or Ukic.

hed be a sideshow waiting to happen with jennings. and as an asset hed be just good enough on that contract to get offers of other teams junk in return.

Sideshow? Based on what evidence? Just because he's a young PG? Is it bad to have two talented players at the same position?

thats been born out with the sign and trade offers we HAVE heard about this offseason.

That is because the Bucks have had zero leverage in trade talks since the Warrick signing.

better just to let him walk and stick to the guys at the positions of need on deals that can be moved or eliminated as we move forward.

Sessions at $4M per year is EASILY movable, and he helps us win more than either of Warrick or Delfino next year.

youre looking at this backwards.

Nope. I'm looking at it big picture and long-term, which is how you're supposed to.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

I think you really only need to look at how quickly the chase for Warrick heated up after his QO was pulled if you want to check on the difference between UFAs and RFAs. If Ramon was willing or able to sign a 1 yr/3m deal, it would have been done a long time ago. As soon as Memphis pulled their offer, Warrick was both.

weve made it fairly clear that if a team wanted to sign sessions than they could have him. its not like these other teams are afraid to lock up assets in THIS offseason with an offer. the market has essentially dried up.

the truth is that sessions has simply not been pursued and is little more than an afterthought to all but the knicks and clippers. for all we know, the knicks were only pursuing him to gain leverage with their own guys.

im glad we havent been bamboozled into offering him a deal that no one else would consider a value.

[BucksRUS]

I supposed nobody is interested in David Lee either after his 16/11 season and him about to enter his prime. If Sessions is a UFA, he's already signed, and at higher than either Delfino/Warrick signed for, of that I'm certain. You can pretend RFA vs. UFA plays no role, but it is just not based in reality.

But as far as impact on this team in terms of W/L, Sessions has more than either Delfino or Warrick. To say we shouldn't sign him at $4M just because it is multiple years is comical to me, when he's a 23 year old PG with promise, vs. a couple 27 year old forwards who are not going to improve one bit from where they are now.

The difference is that Lee was looking for a deal greater than the MLE, of which the 7 or 8 teams all looked elsewhere. If he agreed to a MLE deal, he would have signed by now. Sessions could have been given an offer by any of the teams since he is maxed out at an MLE contract. Their are 16 or so teams that could still make Sessions an offer. Up to this point no one has, even while the Bucks likelihood of matching has sunk to less than 5%. So while he is still a RFA, due to the Bucks lack of interest in retaining him he is essentially a UFA.

[LUKE23]

If Sessions was a UFA he'd already be signed, and at over whatever he gets in RFA.

[paulpressey25]

If it was all about WIN NOW as you claim, RJ would not have been traded....

I think RJ needed to be moved simply because his contract was toxic in two respects:

a) Hammond learned last year that when his payroll is log-jammed with Redd/RJ taking up $30 million along with Gadz and Bogut means he has no dollars with which to add higher quality pieces than Malik Allen.

And he learned last year that when he wanted to make a deal, it needed to be a salary blockbuster given how much those guys made and how difficult those type of trades can be.

b) The 2010-11 payroll was going to be way over the luxury tax with RJ's $15 million in that year.

I think Hammond learned the hard way last year that RJ's contract in this current salary structure wasn't worth it relative to his production on the court. I don't read the RJ trade as signaling a complete rebuild but more him facing up to payroll realities.

He's now swapped out RJ for Warrick, Delfino, Thomas and Ukic. Quantity for quality. We'll see how it works out.

[lawrybeard]

Teams thought they could get Ramon for a bargain - which is what made him attractive, because at that price they were willing to overlook the flaws.

Teams knew they wouldn't get Lee at a bargain - which makes him less attractive, because at that price they are not willing to overlook the flaws.

[emunney]

I think you really only need to look at how quickly the chase for Warrick heated up after his QO was pulled if you want to check on the difference between UFAs and RFAs. If Ramon was willing or able to sign a 1 yr/3m deal, it would have been done a long time ago. As soon as Memphis pulled their offer, Warrick was both.

weve made it fairly clear that if a team wanted to sign sessions than they could have him. its not like these other teams are afraid to lock up assets in THIS offseason with an offer. the market has essentially dried up.

the truth is that sessions has simply not been pursued and is little more than an afterthought to all but the knicks and clippers. for all we know, the knicks were only pursuing him to gain leverage with their own guys.

im glad we havent been bamboozled into offering him a deal that no one else would consider a value.

In what way have we made that clear? In that our front office continually states that they want him back, or in that they've stated a willingness to go over the luxury tax threshold for "the right player"?

I don't see what value you can get from dismissing the RFA factor as 'bs' when it's clearly been the determining factor in why this process draws long and thin with a short list of guys who have the same single thing in common every year. It's not as if this is the first time we've seen it happen. Varejao, Bell, Childress, Kleiza, Ben Gordon... do you really think none of these guys belong in the NBA? What happens to them when they get offered a contract? They suddenly improve as players?

[LUKE23]

I think RJ needed to be moved simply because his contract was toxic in two respects:

a) Hammond learned last year that when his payroll is log-jammed with Redd/RJ taking up $30 million along with Gadz and Bogut means he has no dollars with which to add higher quality pieces than Malik Allen.

And he learned last year that when he wanted to make a deal, it needed to be a salary blockbuster given how much those guys made and how difficult those type of trades can be.

b) The 2010-11 payroll was going to be way over the luxury tax with RJ's $15 million in that year.

I think Hammond learned the hard way last year that RJ's contract in this current salary structure wasn't worth it relative to his production on the court. I don't read the RJ trade as signaling a complete rebuild but more him facing up to payroll realities.

He's now swapped out RJ for Warrick, Delfino, Thomas and Ukic. Quantity for quality. We'll see how it works out.

Yep. The RJ trade was to clear 2010-11 salary. It by no means signifies that Hammond doesn't think this team is win now. Hammond thinks this is a playoff team. We shall see if he's right shortly.

[emunney]

Formal objection to "win-now"/"win-later" dialectical paradigm.

[paulpressey25]

I don't know if Hammond truly thinks this is a playoff team. But I think he's trying to be one.

Otherwise you simply re-sign Ramon, keep Amir since he's so young and expiring and let Alexander get major minutes at SF.

[BucksRUS]

I think you really only need to look at how quickly the chase for Warrick heated up after his QO was pulled if you want to check on the difference between UFAs and RFAs. If Ramon was willing or able to sign a 1 yr/3m deal, it would have been done a long time ago. As soon as Memphis pulled their offer, Warrick was both.

Ramon wouldn't have signed a 1 year deal, since he would still be a RFA next year unless the team he signed with doesn't tender him a QO. Ramon is a special case. If RFA's get a contract offer it is usually because they are overpaid to keep their current team from match.

[paulpressey25]

If we need to dump Elson's $1.7mm to get more salary room to re-sign Ramon, maybe the Kings can help us.

http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/2148187.html

"......More roster reshuffling? – Despite having approximately $5 million in salary cap room and no conventional backup center for Spencer Hawes, the Kings have remained quiet since signing forward Sean May on Aug. 3.

Westphal, who said he has been in frequent contact with Kings basketball president Geoff Petrie since the conclusion of the summer league in July, said the chance for more change remains.

"I wouldn't be surprised if it's the team we enter camp with, and I wouldn't be surprised if we tweak it a little bit," said Westphal, who will complete the move from his Southern California home to Sacramento on Tuesday with his wife.

As it stands, the team's frontcourt reserves are forwards May and veteran Kenny Thomas.
"We don't want to just add somebody if they can't help us," Westphal said. "If there's a way to (add to the depth at center), I'm sure we'll do it....."

[BucksRUS]

I don't know if Hammond truly thinks this is a playoff team. But I think he's trying to be one.

Otherwise you simply re-sign Ramon, keep Amir since he's so young and expiring and let Alexander get major minutes at SF.

If Hammond is a realist, he would know that this is not a playoff team. After listening to an interview with him, I sort of got what he was trying to do. He is trying to build assets. Similar to Kahn in Minnesota. The difference being that Kahn told everybody that is what he was doing, but Hammond has been a lot less forthright. He has a plan, but he has hasn't shared it with the general public. How well he executes that plan will determine if suceeds or fails.

[emunney]

Not sure what your point is. If Ramon was able to sign a 1 year deal with a non-Bucks team, he'd have to be a UFA right now.