Tom Moore 2.0

ankle420breaker · Post #1641 » by **ankle420breaker** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 6:36 pm

haha.. HS starter. Wow.

Post #1642 » by **dbodner** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 6:43 pm

You need to make shots to get an assist. We didn't have the shooters to average 7 assists. The reason we were so successful when he averaged 7+ assists is because people were making shots.

This might have been acceptable the year prior, but with Brand we needed something different out of Miller. We didn't get it.

Right. Because those 29 games made our season.

He's strictly an average PG

Average is better than what we have.

steveb21 · Post #1643 » by **steveb21** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 7:09 pm

Average is better than what we have.

I somewhat disagree. What we have is unknown. It could be better, it could be worse...or it could just be different. I'm looking forward to seeing them in pre-season to get an idea of what we really have.

Dedicated_76ers_fan · Post #1644 » by **Dedicated_76ers_fan** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 7:20 pm

ankle420breaker wrote:haha.. HS starter. Wow.

Wasn't he Mr.Basketball in Georgia?

Basically, kid was humbled. He was this star in his Home State, then he had to go through a developing process. Unlike with A.I, we gave him the keys from day 1.

Dedicated_76ers_fan · Post #1645 » by **Dedicated_76ers_fan** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 7:28 pm

Whether they made our season or not is not the "point". The point is, when given a 20/10 PF to work with, he failed to put them in position to score.

Similarly, Iguodala, Young, Green(Especially as an off the ball guard), Lou.

Miller had weapons to average 7 assists, let's not kid ourselves. 3pt shooting doesn't make FG shooting.
One of the reasons we won games was because of our FG shooting.

He simply is an average PG, that I assure you won't be a new PG in Portland.

Lou is better then Miller due to the fact that Lou's gonna play off the ball. You couldn't play Miller off the ball. That's a fact.

Post #1646 » by **dbodner** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 9:00 pm

I give up. When you start talking about "FG shooting", it's impossible to argue.

Don · Post #1647 » by **Don** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 9:44 pm

Unlike with A.I, we gave him the keys from day 1.

Never mind that AI was the most dominant college level scorer. Listen, Div. 1 and HS are not even in the same universe. Why don't we try arguing about some of these things after you've played a few games- or at least understood the game a bit better.

Miller is a known quality pg in this league. You are wasting all of our time trying to convince us all that he was merely average pg in this league. As Bodner said, you only get assists if the man you've passed to will make his shot. Miller took his shots because the others COULD NOT make their shots. You're blaming Miller for Brand's and Iggy's play? Brand played well in the beginning of the season. Iggy was playing poorly because he couldn't make his shots. Your argument really makes no sense to me to blame Miller

sweetlou23 · Post #1648 » by **sweetlou23** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 10:35 pm

Dedicated_76ers_fan wrote:
ankle420breaker wrote:haha.. HS starter. Wow.

Wasn't he Mr.Basketball in Georgia?

Basically, kid was humbled. He was this star in his Home State, then he had to go through a developing process. Unlike with A.I, we gave him the keys from day 1.

Williams won the 2005 Naismith Prep Player of the Year Award which identifies the nation's top high school player, and was named to the 2005 McDonald's All-American East Team.

sweetlou23 · Post #1649 » by **sweetlou23** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 10:52 pm

Sixerscan wrote:He couldn't get assists because Lou Williams kept shooting bricks when Miller passed him the ball.

Puleeze!!! miller rarely passed to Williams unless the shot clock was running down. Miller did what the team asked him to do get wins and get into the playoffs. Lou will at least a top 15 point guard once the season starts. I have confidence that his ability to put pressure on the opposing team's defense, his passing ability, the overall offensive ability of the rest of the starting five and the princeton offense will put him in a position to excel.

Dedicated_76ers_fan · Post #1650 » by **Dedicated_76ers_fan** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 11:05 pm

I'm very very confident in Lou Williams, what I saw out of him encourages me.

83SixersRocked · Post #1651 » by **83SixersRocked** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 11:44 pm

Dedicated_76ers_fan wrote:And it's almost insulting that I have to deal with this. "Regressing" and inconsistent are two entirely different things. Realize that there are 82 games in a season. He played better towards the final 30 or so. He showed us PG potential, or did you forget? You likely did.

I'm not going to make excuses for Lou Williams, but I will point this out: Tony Dileo took out M-16 from the playoffs. That was the only thing Lou could pass too off the bench. It made our 2nd unit, that much worse.

I mean, have you ever tried playing 1-on-5? Only Allen Iverson accomplished the feat(2001) but he didn't face opponents the quality of Orlando.

Mike Bibby is a situational PG that fills a certain role, the same kind of PG Lou Williams will be this season for us. But Lou will fit much better in his role. All he has to do is complete the initial pass, how difficult do you think be?

He's basically an additional 2 guard in the lineup. One that's very good when you let him play to his strengths: Getting to the rack and getting quality shots.

Let's bring up the stats of one: Gilbert Arenas.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/s ... ayerId=974

Sans those 2 games(And he obviously wasn't ready to come back 6-23, UGH) Gilbert Arenas has never averaged more then 6 assists.

Infact, he only hit the feat twice in his career(05-07).

You mean to tell me you don't expect Lou Williams to pull this off? Kid's a natural scorer. And he's been humbled. HS starter, then he had to work his way through the NBA.

Unlike Allen Iverson, kid knows what it takes to win in the league. And if that's G.A's stats, I think your worries about Lou is quelled.

Andre Miller,lord knows I HATE him. He's inconsistent. And for those of you saying "We didn't have offense". We added a 20/10 forward, and a kid that averaged 15 PPG over the course of the season(Thad Young). And he barely averaged 5 assists at the beginning of the year.

He's an iso heavy guard that sometimes plays like a PG, more times like a 2 guard.

From Lou's 2nd season through his 4th, his AST-TO ratio has gone down each year. Thats consistent regression. He's got a hill to climb.

Comparing Lou to Bibby is an insult to Bibby. Bibby scores more, shoots a better %, had an AST-TO ratio last year of over 3. You keep comparing Lou to two of the better PGs of the past 10 years or so, and that's a losing battle. Just because age is catching up with them doesn't mean they can't play anymore, they're just showing some cracks in their game. You can hate him all you want though I question why you'd "hate" somebody for being inconsistent. That doesn't mean he's a bad player.

Brand didnt average 20/10 last year, and Thad's scoring didn't take off until late in the year. I'm not sure why those two things are being compared to Miller's stats early in the year. Arenas has nothing to do with this either, and he hasn't won anything; he's barely been above .500.

Lou has PG potential. And right now that's all it is.

Post #1652 » by **Sixerscan** » Thu Sep 3, 2009 12:35 am

sweetlou23 wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:He couldn't get assists because Lou Williams kept shooting bricks when Miller passed him the ball.

Puleeze!!! miller rarely passed to Williams unless the shot clock was running down. Miller did what the team asked him to do get wins and get into the playoffs. Lou will at least a top 15 point guard once the season starts. I have confidence that his ability to put pressure on the opposing team's defense, his passing ability, the overall offensive ability of the rest of the starting five and the princeton offense will put him in a position to excel.

If Louis Williams could get up 10 shots in 24 minutes a game without the point guard ever passing him the ball I can't wait to see what kind of chucking happens now that he's the point guard.

That's great that you have confidence in him. Completely unbiased, it's not like you made your screen name after him or anything.

sweetlou23 · Post #1653 » by **sweetlou23** » Thu Sep 3, 2009 1:41 am

Sixerscan wrote:
sweetlou23 wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:He couldn't get assists because Lou Williams kept shooting bricks when Miller passed him the ball.

Puleeze!!! miller rarely passed to Williams unless the shot clock was running down. Miller did what the team asked him to do get wins and get into the playoffs. Lou will at least a top 15 point guard once the season starts. I have confidence that his ability to put pressure on the opposing team's defense, his passing ability, the overall offensive ability of the rest of the starting five and the princeton offense will put him in a position to excel.

If Louis Williams could get up 10 shots in 24 minutes a game without the point guard ever passing him the ball I can't wait to see what kind of chucking happens now that he's the point guard.

That's great that you have confidence in him. Completely unbiased, it's not like you made your screen name after him or anything.

First, i did not say he never passed him the ball. i said he rarely passed him the ball. Second. Lou also ran the point for twelve of those 24 minutes. We can agree to disagree without attacking each other over screen names can't we? My analysis is what it is. Attack it on its substance or lack thereof. The bias thing is somewhat petty and i expect more from a mod. anyway, i digress.

i have had my fill of discussing miller. at this point everyone knows where everyone else stands, miller is in portland and there really isn't anything new being added to the dialogue. as far as lou goes, time will tell. if i were to bet, i would bet on him being successful at the point.

ankle420breaker · Post #1654 » by **ankle420breaker** » Thu Sep 3, 2009 2:08 am

Fact of the matter is, all of this confidence for Lou is based on his potential to succeed, when he's yet to actually do so. You can't get down on everyone who is at odds with your stance towards Lou Williams considering everything he still has to prove. Just being named the starter at PG doesn't disregard the holes that remain in his game, and just because Andre Miller is on a different team doesn't take away from the type of player he is and what he accomplished here. Some of us have our reservations towards Lou and until he proves his critics wrong on the court we'll be within our rights to have our doubts. You make it seem like we want him to fail when that couldn't be further from the truth.

Don · Post #1655 » by **Don** » Thu Sep 3, 2009 2:16 am

+1 ankle42bkr

Seems to me the lack of news and excitement surrounding the sixers has everyone on edge, finding something to argue about. Why can't we all just get along??!!LOL.

Post #1656 » by **Sixerscan** » Thu Sep 3, 2009 2:56 am

sweetlou23 wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
sweetlou23 wrote:
Puleeze!!! miller rarely passed to Williams unless the shot clock was running down. Miller did what the team asked him to do get wins and get into the playoffs. Lou will at least a top 15 point guard once the season starts. I have confidence that his ability to put pressure on the opposing team's defense, his passing ability, the overall offensive ability of the rest of the starting five and the princeton offense will put him in a position to excel.

If Louis Williams could get up 10 shots in 24 minutes a game without the point guard ever passing him the ball I can't wait to see what kind of chucking happens now that he's the point guard.

That's great that you have confidence in him. Completely unbiased, it's not like you made your screen name after him or anything.

First, i did not say he never passed him the ball. i said he rarely passed him the ball. Second. Lou also ran the point for twelve of those 24 minutes. We can agree to disagree without attacking each other over screen names can't we? My analysis is what it is. Attack it on its substance or lack thereof. The bias thing is somewhat petty and i expect more from a mod. anyway, i digress.

i have had my fill of discussing miller. at this point everyone knows where everyone else stands, miller is in portland and there really isn't anything new being added to the dialogue. as far as lou goes, time will tell. if i were to bet, i would bet on him being successful at the point.

Then explain to me why you are confident in the kid when he's never really played the point guard position full time to any kind of success.

And just to be clear that original line about Williams ruining Miller's assist numbers was a joke. (A joke with some basis in reality... but still a joke)

Dedicated_76ers_fan · Post #1657 » by **Dedicated_76ers_fan** » Thu Sep 3, 2009 5:21 am

How can we tell he's succeeded or failed? There are some times where he looks like an excellent PG. The drive and kick game, which Miller does not have AT ALL. That in of itself will lead to dimes.

83SixersRocked · Post #1658 » by **83SixersRocked** » Thu Sep 3, 2009 7:19 am

I thought we were going to stop talking about Miller (and its you that keeps bringing him up).

steveb21 · Post #1659 » by **steveb21** » Thu Sep 3, 2009 1:26 pm

I've been reading the pro/con arguments about Lou running the point. Seems there are good points on both sides...but to me it's pointless since Jrue is our point guard of the future. Lou is basically a stop gap until he's ready.

Post #1660 » by **Sixerscan** » Thu Sep 3, 2009 4:53 pm

Dedicated_76ers_fan wrote:How can we tell he's succeeded or failed? There are some times where he looks like an excellent PG. The drive and kick game, which Miller does not have AT ALL. That in of itself will lead to dimes.

I've never succeeded or failed as a starter in the NBA either. Would you have confidence in me being named starting point guard?

He may have had some decent moments but bottom line is he was a 2nd stringer that shot under 40% last year. So many players have shown flashes of brilliance only to never be able to sustain it, as he was last year.