Kings/Hornets (and other proposals)

[Marc]

Part A)
TO NOH: Donte Greene ($870,000).
Total: $870,000
TO SAC: $870,000 TE from T.Chandler trade.
Total: $870,000
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Part B)
TO NOH: Andres Nocioni ($7,500,000), Beno Udrih ($6,031,800).
Total: $13,531,800
TO SAC: Peja Stojakovic ($13,392,000), Hilton Armstrong ($2,801,198).
Total: $16,193,198

Why the deal is divided into 2 parts? Because this way, Kings receive a TE and Hornets a bigger one than what they would receive if the deal was done all in one.

Why for Kings? They get rid of Udrih's and Nocioni's long-term deals. Udrih has a 3 years deal with a PO in the 4th year worth $7,372,200 and Nocioni has a 3 years deal with a TO in the 4th year worth $7,500,000. Assuming udrih picks up his PO and Nocioni's TO is declined, Kings would save $13,575,400 (without counting Green's salary) in 2011/12 and $7,372,200 (without counting Green's salary) in 2012/13. Long-term contracts are not always bad but Udrih and Nocioni are pretty overpaid if you ask me and they would just appear as negative contracts in 2011/12 and 2012/13. Peja is massively overpaid but only has 2 years left of contract and even without the trade they would have to pay big money to Nocioni and Udrih in 2009/2010 and 2010/11.

In conclusion, this deal helps Hornets short-term (financially and talent wise) and Kings long-term (financially) which is what both teams are looking for. And i should not forget mentioning that it would bring back Peja to Sacramento, LOL.

So, you would rather pay $15,591,296 to Nocioni, Udrih and Greene or have $15,591,296 in cap space in 20111/12? I think this is a no-brainer for Kings.

[KingInExile]

I believe the Kings might have some cap room to absorb the difference between Greene and Armstrong, so just make that the deal and drop the whole Peja/Noc-Beno part. (Note: posting that without double checking current salary, so I could be wrong).

Armstrong could help fill our front line holes while removing a potential log jam at the wing.

As for Peja...been there and done that at far less money than he's getting now. Except now he's much older, even more injury prone and, well, let's just say that the Hornets can keep paying of the mistake of massively overpaying him.

[Marc]

Personally, i think Udrih's contract is worse than Peja's. Financially speaking, Peja's is worse but Udrih's is a nightmare because it is long and overpaid in each season. I totally do not understand why Kings signed him to such a big contract in the 1st place. The same goes for Peja but at least, Stojakovic brought something to the table at the time.

So, would you rather pay $15,591,296 to Nocioni, Udrih and Greene or have $15,591,296 in cap space in 20111/12? Sorry to be repetitive but i think that question is the whole point of the deal.

[pillwenney]

Taking out Peja and Beno would defeat the whole purpose of the deal. Personally, I'd love to do this deal to get out of Beno's contract.

I agree that this is a no-brainer. It sucks to give up Donte, but to get this kind of future flexibility, it's an easy choice for me.

Evans\Rodriguez
Martin\Garcia\Mason
Stojakovic\Casspi
Thompson\Brockman\Thomas
Hawes\May\Armstrong

Personally, I just don't understand why NO would do it. Beno isn't that huge of an upgrade, and even so--is an expensive backup. The same goes for Noc depending on who starts between him, Posey, and Wright.

[RoyalCourtJestr]

I'd do it. Peja expires so much sooner than Nocioni and Beno.

[pillwenney]

I'm gonna go ahead and make this an over all trade thread, since we haven't had one for a while, and could probably use to at least generate some discussion.

[pillwenney]

Something I was just thinking of was something like...

Beno, and Noc

for

Curry, Jeffries, Tony Douglas


I would obviously prefer the NO trade, but I think this is more realistic. The Knicks do it to save around $5million in the big offseason next year while upgrading in talent (at the cost of taking on another $21-22million in the future). The Kings sacrifice in talent in order to clear a ton of cap space in 2011. Also, if I'm not mistaken, with this deal the Knicks get somewhere no one ever thought they would--under the luxury tax for the season--which saves them around another $9million.

Udrih\Duhon
Chandler\Robinson\Hughes
Gallinari\Nocioni
Harrington\Hill
Lee\Milicic

Between Beno, Nocioni, Chandler, Hill, and Gallinari, the Knicks salary would be at around $22.5million.

Evans\Rodriguez\Douglas
Martin\Mason
Garcia\Casspi\Jeffries
Thompson\Greene
Hawes\May\Curry

Not a great roster by any stretch, but not all that much worse. I don't see this deal being super realistic, but I'd like to do it.

[Marc]

Taking out Peja and Beno would defeat the whole purpose of the deal. Personally, I'd love to do this deal to get out of Beno's contract.

I agree that this is a no-brainer. It sucks to give up Donte, but to get this kind of future flexibility, it's an easy choice for me.

I posted this same trade in the trades section and here goes the explanation for Hornets:

Why for Hornets? They save $1,791,398 for 2009/10 and they lose $3,300 (assuming they pick up Green's TO) for 2010/11 but they add 1 extra player in 2009/10 and 2 extra players (assuming they pick up Green's TO) in 2010/11. Moreover, there is a chance they get better in the short term too. I added Greene in the deal because i think he would be a good fit and he adds some height to a small team.

[pillwenney]

I think it might slightly improve them talent-wise, but not that much. As a backup, Beno isn't a huge upgrade over Brown or Collison, and Noc is on Peja' level. The talent upgrade over all though just isn't worth all of the extra money they take on after '10-'11. I think they could do much better than this.

[Marc]

I think it might slightly improve them talent-wise, but not that much. As a backup, Beno isn't a huge upgrade over Brown or Collison, and Noc is on Peja' level. The talent upgrade over all though just isn't worth all of the extra money they take on after '10-'11. I think they could do much better than this.

$1,791,398 is some good money (and i didn't count taxes in the equation) and they trade 3-for-2.

I think this is a similar case like what happened in the trade for Okafor and Songalia financially speaking.

In the trades section i had this trade idea: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=937928 and they ended up doing Antonio Daniels + 2nd for Darius Songaila + Bobby Brown.

If you look around, you will see this is probably one of the best win-win trades they can make. Small details like Nocioni having a front-loaded contract and Greene having a TO help too. Of course, Udrih's long term contract is horrible but Hornets have inmediat financial needs.
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Sending some money to NOH would also help to get this deal done and maybe some pick.

[pillwenney]

I think it might slightly improve them talent-wise, but not that much. As a backup, Beno isn't a huge upgrade over Brown or Collison, and Noc is on Peja' level. The talent upgrade over all though just isn't worth all of the extra money they take on after '10-'11. I think they could do much better than this.

$1,791,398 is some good money (and i didn't count taxes in the equation) and they trade 3-for-2.

I think this is a similar case like what happened in the trade for Okafor and Songalia financially speaking.

In the trades section i had this trade idea: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=937928 and they ended up doing Antonio Daniels + 2nd for Darius Songaila + Bobby Brown.

If you look around, you will see this is probably one of the best win-win trades they can make. Small details like Nocioni having a front-loaded contract and Greene having a TO help too. Of course, Udrih's long term contract is horrible but Hornets have inmediat financial needs.
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Sending some money to NOH would also help to get this deal done and maybe some pick.

What are you talking about? That 1.8mil is nothing compared to what it costs New Orleans later on. The incentive for why the Kings do this is exactly why New Orleans doesn't.

[Marc]

What are you talking about? That 1.8mil is nothing compared to what it costs New Orleans later on. The incentive for why the Kings do this is exactly why New Orleans doesn't.

Hornets have severe inmediat financial needs and with this deal they would save money for this season and the next one. For this season, they would save $3,6M (including taxes). The contracts for Udrih and Nocioni would still count in 2011/12 but Songalia's and Peterson's contracts expire in that season so it wouldn't be so bad.

How much cash consideration do you think Kings would be willing to add to make Hornets accept the deal? (The limit per deal is $3M).

[Marc]

Here goes a crazier idea: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... eId=lr7nyx

Would you do it for Kings? Nothing changes from 2011/12 onwards but you have to lose Sergio and you have to take Peterson that has a 2 years deal.

With this deal, Hornets would save $4.8M for this season (including taxes) and $6M + taxes for 2010/11.

Clippers could also add 1 or 2 2nd rounders.

[pillwenney]

Hornets have severe inmediat financial needs and with this deal they would save money for this season and the next one. For this season, they would save $3,6M (including taxes). The contracts for Udrih and Nocioni would still count in 2011/12 but Songalia's and Peterson's contracts expire in that season so it wouldn't be so bad.

How much cash consideration do you think Kings would be willing to add to make Hornets accept the deal? (The limit per deal is $3M).

I just don't see how their situation could be so severe to where they would take on an extra $20million+ later to save 3.6 right now. That's just flat out illogical to me. And more than anything, just unnecessary. If they are really looking that hard at trimming salary right now, they could do it without taking on so much money in the future. Not to mention that selling their draft pick could have saved them nearly $6million over all (3mil for the cash in return, 2-3 mil for the draft pick's salary).

And Songaila and Peterson's contracts both expire after '10-'11, not '11-'12. Regardless, I'm not even looking at cap space. The extra salary is why NO doesn't do the deal.

[Marc]

So, you would do http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... eId=lr7nyx for Kings?

Pretty sure Hornets would accept that one.

[Smills91]

So, you would do http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... eId=lr7nyx for Kings?

Pretty sure Hornets would accept that one.

I personally prefer the deal without the Clippers. The original deal looked solid to me. This three team trade makes me inclined to say no.

[Marc]

So, you would do http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... eId=lr7nyx for Kings?

Pretty sure Hornets would accept that one.

I personally prefer the deal without the Clippers. The original deal looked solid to me. This three team trade makes me inclined to say no.

Do you think Kings would be willing to add $3M as cash consideration in the 1st deal?

[pillwenney]

So, you would do http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... eId=lr7nyx for Kings?

Pretty sure Hornets would accept that one.

They're still taking on more money int the long run without a sizable talent upgrade IMO.

[Smills91]

So, you would do http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... eId=lr7nyx for Kings?

Pretty sure Hornets would accept that one.

I personally prefer the deal without the Clippers. The original deal looked solid to me. This three team trade makes me inclined to say no.

Do you think Kings would be willing to add $3M as cash consideration in the 1st deal?

No. Maloofs are losing money right now, I don't see them adding cash to the mix.

[ICMTM]

I had a dream that Peja was in a preseason game with Tyreke Evans last night.