Nash: Players Shouldn't Be Judged On Titles

[joe.linnen]

SECOND PLACE WILL ALWAYS BE FIRST LOSER

[Mamba Venom]

Nash is the only 2-time MVP w/o a title

Even as a Laker fan I really like Nash

I lost respect for him not wanting to compete for it all. He only wants to play in the run & gun system. Since NY, Pheonix and the City aren't elite teams he figured Pheinix is his best option.

Titles really are really important.... Nash didn't make the Finals in Dallas or Pheonix. ITS GREAT THAT HE DID SO MUCH WHEN EVERYONE EXPECTED SO LITTLE (as Nash will remind you) but Nash's expectations are still lower than any other multi-MVP. He's one of my favs but his desire to win it all is not the driving force in his career.

Not winning drives other players completely crazy. Nash has come to terms a little earlier than other great players

[CoolD]

Yeah, Nash had real stacked teams. Is not like dude was riding with the worst players.

Nash has played with

Dirk, Finley, Amare, Matrix, Shaq

I don't blame Nash that the media gave him two MVP's that he didn't deserve, but what 2 time MVP winner, with the amount of help Nash has had surrounding him, has never played in one single game in the Finals.

[CodyB]

I honestly believed he deserved at least one of those MVP's. He played a pivotal role in generating over 120 victories for the Suns over 2 seasons and, without him, many of those guys he played with would not have had career years.

[Hallstar]

Hopefully he feels the same about MVPs

[The Diesel]

I think Shaq should have won the MVP in 2005, but I can't argue with Nash winning it in 2006 when you consider that Amare missed the whole season.

And Nash has been EXTREMELY unlucky in recent years:

- Joe Johnson getting injured in the 2005 playoffs

- Amare missing the whole season in 2006

- The suspensions in 2007

But I agree you don't need to win a title to be considered a great player.

Reggie Miller, Patrick Ewing, John Stockton, and Charles Barkley never won championships, does that mean they aren't great players?

Steve Kerr has won 5 rings, does that mean he's better than them?

[twenty23]

Nash is the only 2-time MVP w/o a title

Even as a Laker fan I really like Nash

I lost respect for him not wanting to compete for it all. He only wants to play in the run & gun system. Since NY, Pheonix and the City aren't elite teams he figured Pheinix is his best option.

Titles really are really important.... Nash didn't make the Finals in Dallas or Pheonix. ITS GREAT THAT HE DID SO MUCH WHEN EVERYONE EXPECTED SO LITTLE (as Nash will remind you) but Nash's expectations are still lower than any other multi-MVP. He's one of my favs but his desire to win it all is not the driving force in his career.

Not winning drives other players completely crazy. Nash has come to terms a little earlier than other great players

Please tell me this was sarcasm? when has he not wanted to compete for a title? hes oneof the best competitors in this league. do you remember hise nose a couple years ago he was trying to play through? hes gave it his all every year. if you read the article and no the crappy title, youd understand what he meant, which is completely true.

and the reason why he doesnt want to leave phx, isnt because he doesnt care about titles, its because there trainers are by far the best in the league. same with grant hill. why would he want to play there again instead of playing for a champion contender? to stay on the court and actually play instead of being injured. nash is almost finished, sure hed like a title but he still needs to play and at his age he needs trainers like phx has.

[DelaneyRudd]

Not winning takes away from the organization, not the individuals completely.

[hsb]

Some weird posts on here, really missing the point of Nash's comments.

But I have to join in, can someone please tell me what a regular season-MVP award has to do with the playoffs? Every year the MVP winner can be debatable, but there is more than enough reason to give him back-to-back trophies.

Disagree, go ahead, but don't say he doesn't deserve it. He was a great candidate and worked hard for them.

Also, what is interesting is that his team did lose twice to the eventual NBA champions in the playoffs. Why knock him for being in the western conference? Most notably, San Antonio and Cleveland met in the NBA finals in 06-07, but throughout the Spurs run, Phoenix was easily the toughest opponent. Very odd to be upset over his team not making the finals in this instance, with everything being equal, they seemed like the second best team in the league (without incorporating questionable suspensions).

His numbers were great in the regular season and the playoffs during Phoenix's stretch. Watch the games again, you'll see great plays, a player fighting through injury and clutch shot after clutch shot. Adding his work with team Canada, if he retires today, he is a HOF'er, even without the ring. Great career.

[Mattsanity]

nash is the oscar de la hoya of basketball. overrated junk.

and nash, dont pretend you're canadian. you're actually south african.

[CoolD]

Nash didn't deserve even one MVP.
If we go on pretty good players in good teams.
How come Billups didn't get MVP's when the Pistons had the best record of 64 wins.
How come Paul Pierce doesn't have one either, when Boston rocked two years with the best record in the league.

They changed the whole criteria for Nash, because he is white.
Guy is a pretty good player, but not MVP worthy.
How could a guy that plays no defense, his stats were okay, but really not that crazy, the media did a great job at brainwashing a lot of people, but dude is not MVP material.

Good player, overachieved for his size, great shooter, horrible defender, played in friendly system, and the media did a great spin job for two years.

Name me a 2 time MVP, with the amount of help that Nash has had, never to play in the finals.

Did Reggie even get MVP award.
Barlkey had only one MVP, and at least played in the finals.

[Mattsanity]

Nash didn't deserve even one MVP.
If we go on pretty good players in good teams.
How come Billups didn't get MVP's when the Pistons had the best record of 64 wins.
How come Paul Pierce doesn't have one either, when Boston rocked two years with the best record in the league.

They changed the whole criteria for Nash, because he is white.
Guy is a pretty good player, but not MVP worthy.
How could a guy that plays no defense, his stats were okay, but really not that crazy, the media did a great job at brainwatching a lot of people, but dude is is not MVP material.

Good player, overachieved for his size, great shooter, horrible defender, played in friendly system, and the media did a great spin job for two years.

Name me a 2 time MVP, with the amount of help that Nash has had, never to play in the finals.

Did Reggie even get MVP award.
Barlkey had only one MVP, and at least played in the finals.

very deep post with the caucasian argument, and Im korean.

[laronprofit9]

Dallas Mavericks 03-04 52-30 with Nash
Dallas Mavericks 04-05 58-24 without Nash

Nash was placed in great situations with Dallas and Phoenix, they were both loaded with talent. All teams have to suffer injuries, bad breaks, etc... thats part of the game.

Nash's teams didn't have great team defense, and part of the reason is his own fault.

[pillwenney]

Are you guys kidding me? You can argue that maybe he didn't deserve his MVPs. But the degree to which you guys are talking is ridiculous.

I really don't see how people can legitimately complain about 05-06's MVP to be honest. Nash absolutely dragged this team to 54 wins. And of course they sucked on D. Kurt Thomas was the only player in the rotation that could even be considered a full-sized PF, let alone center. Nash certainly didn't help matters here, but Jesus. The team still won 54 games and made the WCF on offense alone--an offense undeniably powered by Nash.

04-05 has some legitimate arguments, but I'm just not seeing it for 05-06. And regardless, acting like it was a total sham is ridiculous.

[Leslie Forman]

Dallas Mavericks 03-04 52-30 with Nash
Dallas Mavericks 04-05 58-24 without Nash

Chicago Bulls 92-93 57-25 with Jordan
Chicago Bulls 93-94 55-27 without Jordan

[Buckeye-NBAFan]

To an extent that's true.

Take two teams:
CC Bill Cartwright
PF Horace Grant
SF Scottie Pippen
SG Michael Jordan
PG B.J. Armstrong

CC Brad Sellers
PF Joe Wolf
SF Cliff Levingston
SG Michael Jordan
PG Clifford Lett

In which situation does Michael Jordan become the best ever? In which situation does he fail to win a single title?

But Nash had some talented teams. Any player truly deserving of multiple MVPs should have won a title with those teams. Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, KG. Those guys win title(s) with those Mavs/Suns teams.

[Leslie Forman]

But Nash had some talented teams. Any player truly deserving of multiple MVPs should have won a title with those teams. Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, KG. Those guys win title(s) with those Mavs/Suns teams.

It's not about talent. Nash never won a title because he never played on a team that could defend the interior or rebound worth a damn. That's hardly the point guard's responsibility. Billups? He had the Wallaces, with Larry Brown coaching. Isiah? He had Laimbeer, Rodman, Mahorn and Chuck Daly. Magic? He had Kareem, AC Green and Pat Riley. They all had solid interior D and regularly outrebounded their opponents. They also all won titles.

Nash? Ehhhh…he got about 19 minutes of a 34-year-old Kurt Thomas in the '07 playoffs. That's about it.

[thamadkant]

Some people here simply just dont get it....

Nash is a 2 time MVP, because on those given years he filled the criterias BEST out of the other players. Ewing, Miller, etc didnt win an MVP back then, because Jordan, Malone, Barkley, Olajuwon, D.Robinson etc were the top contenders for the whole decade.....


Without Nash the Suns we're a totally different team on the court they didnt have an identity and they were very ineffective, Suns system is highly effective during the regular season due to Nash.

And in regards to his comments, RealGM needs to change the title.. Nash simply pointed out, his career will not be diminished without a title as he had "fun" and was instrumental to the teams he played for... etc

[MaryvalesFinest]

But Nash had some talented teams. Any player truly deserving of multiple MVPs should have won a title with those teams. Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, KG. Those guys win title(s) with those Mavs/Suns teams.

It's not about talent. Nash never won a title because he never played on a team that could defend the interior or rebound worth a damn. That's hardly the point guard's responsibility. Billups? He had the Wallaces, with Larry Brown coaching. Isiah? He had Laimbeer, Rodman, Mahorn and Chuck Daly. Magic? He had Kareem, AC Green and Pat Riley. They all had solid interior D and regularly outrebounded their opponents. They also all won titles.

Nash? Ehhhh…he got about 19 minutes of a 34-year-old Kurt Thomas in the '07 playoffs. That's about it.

Actually Nash is the main reason why the Suns are bad defensively...

[CoolD]

Forget even the title talk, Nash hasn't even played in one Finals game in his career.
Also part of the MVP, is able to be so great, that you somehow makeup for a big weakness.
Jordan didn't have the best rebounders first 3 titles without Rodman. But Scottie and Jordan's great perimeter defense was able to disrupt offenses like no other.
Magic was a great rebounder for his position, and okay defender. Another reason Lakers won, was Magic also helped and wasn't a liability. This is not NFL, were you just have to play offense or defense and not worry about the other side.
With Nash you have to actually bring in extra help, meaning if you get a defensive specialist, lets say a Mutombo on his prime. The fact Mutombo is not a proficient scorer, and the fact Nash can't dominate on offense, would also make Phoenix a better defensive team, but also a much worse offensive team.
That is the problem with one dimensional players, you built a team one way, like building a friendly go lucky system that suits his strengths, might make a couple fool gold’s diehards happy, but in the end, Nash will disappoint. Bring in a Mutombo in his prime he will slow down the Suns so much, you will see Nash complain that he can't run, similar to last year where the coach actually wanted defense and rebounding.

Nash is horrible on defense all around.
One sided players get exposed in the NBA. Nash is pretty much that example.