MIN-PHO-WAS

shrink · Post #1 » by **shrink** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:15 pm

Here's a cute little Atkins trade, to a notoriously, but randomly, cheap owner in PHO.

MIN OUT: Atkins + Wilkins ($7.11)
MIN IN: Mike James + Earl Clark ($8.24)

PHO OUT: Jason Richardson + Clark + Dragic ($16.94)
PHO IN: Mike Miller + Atkins + Crittendon ($14.74)

WAS OUT: Mike Miller + Mike James + Crittendon ($17.73)
WAS IN: JRich + Dragic + Wilkins ($18.80)

WHY FOR MIN: Buying Earl Clark for $3.78 mil. Mike James is waived.

WHY FOR WAS: Jason Richardson is more expensive, but he's better than Mike Miller and helps the Wiz compete against elite teams in the East. Foye can play back-up PG, then Dragic. J-Rich's second year is OK.

WHY FOR PHO: After waiving Atkins, this deal saves the Suns nearly $5 mil, and gets them under the lux. They save $13 mil this year, and they are out from $18 mil in salary next year by taking back all expirings, so they save nearly $30 mil. Mike Miller wouldn't be a bad fit in PHO as well as they go up-tempo, with his size mismatch and 3-point shooting, and his passing would make Amare better.

Anyone say no to this deal?

Post #2 » by **Worm Guts** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:23 pm

I'd guess Washington does. Jason Richardson is a better scorer than Miller, but Washington already has Butler, Arenas, Jamison and Foye. They may prefer Miller's all around game and not want to take back Richardson's contract.
I'm also not sure Phoenix is willing to use Clark to cut salary. They might be, but they may be able to move Richardson without it.

Esohny · Post #3 » by **Esohny** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:24 pm

I could actually see PHO saying no. I don't know that they dump Clark for savings. I would think that they would look to move J-Rich in a "Richard Jefferson to the Spurs" type deal before sacrificing one of their few young talents. But with Sarver, who knows?

john2jer · Post #4 » by **john2jer** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:52 pm

I'd toss in the Utah pick to get it done. Earl Clark would be very nice to have.

Biff Cooper · Post #5 » by **Biff Cooper** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:53 pm

Interesting idea. My opinion of J. Richardson is a little low. I think Washington is the most likely team to say no in this deal because they'd have to take on an extra year of J Rich. Phoenix might say yes to the deal the way it is. It would be huge for them to get out of Richardson's extra year and get under the lux - even if it meant giving up on Clark.
If we needed to sweeten it, I'd have no problem sending the Utah #1 to Wash, and our Houston #2 to Phoenix.

Winter Wonder · Post #6 » by **Winter Wonder** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:40 pm

From the MN side, as is, would think it was a no brainer and definite yes.

As indicated though, Washington may not be inclined to pick up J-Rich for his contact's size and length. Possible talent upgrade, but not an easy pill to swallow at the price tag.

Not sure how PHX would feel, but they are tough to read with cost savings vs on court talent. Might make sense from a monetary side, but I think the price is a bit steep for them. Richardson is still talented (best player in the trade regardless of cost) and Clark is a very intriguing prospect that I wouldn't want to drop for cost savings. Still, they are getting crushed by the lux and they have a tight fisted ownership.

the_bruce · Post #7 » by **the_bruce** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:13 pm

I'd probably toss the utah or bob pick to get this done

mnWI · Post #8 » by **mnWI** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:18 pm

Phoenix doesn't do this.

Post #9 » by **The J Rocka** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:33 pm

I think PHX would only do this if they received a 1st round pick and/or the Wiz would have to give up Randy Foye or pieces of their youth

shrink · Post #10 » by **shrink** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:49 pm

I could understand WAS maybe saying no, but I've listened to their posters say far too often how their sickly owner doesn't care about the lux, and they are on a very short window to win a championship. I understand though that next year, signing Haywood to money back over the lux would be expensive.

As for PHO, I do not believe any #14 pick is worth $30 milion dollars -- especially to Sarver.

shrink · Post #11 » by **shrink** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:51 pm

J_Era_3 wrote:I think PHX would only do this if they received a 1st round pick and/or the Wiz would have to give up Randy Foye or pieces of their youth

This might actually not be a bad idea, because I think being over the lux would make re-signing Foye questionable as it is. The problem for PHO is that while they'd like getting under the lux, they simply have very few contracts they can move to do it. This may be mroe of a trade deadline deal as well.

mnWI · Post #12 » by **mnWI** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:06 pm

shrink wrote:I could understand WAS maybe saying no, but I've listened to their posters say far too often how their sickly owner doesn't care about the lux, and they are on a very short window to win a championship. I understand though that next year, signing Haywood to money back over the lux would be expensive.

As for PHO, I do not believe any #14 pick is worth $30 milion dollars -- especially to Sarver.

You know they play basketball too, right?

shrink · Post #13 » by **shrink** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:13 pm

mnWI wrote:
shrink wrote:As for PHO, I do not believe any #14 pick is worth $30 milion dollars -- especially to Sarver.

You know they play basketball too, right?

You know its a business too, right?

Sorry, Sarver is the guy that took a championship-level team and traded the important Kurt Thomas' expiring contract plus two firsts for raw cap space, "just to save money."

Its a balance. I do not believe teams have an absolute "We won't trade talent for savings" code of law .. particularly when the savings is $30 million dollars. There's no way Earl Clark can produce enough revenue to be worth $30 mil to the Suns.

mnWI · Post #14 » by **mnWI** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:25 pm

shrink wrote:
mnWI wrote:
shrink wrote:As for PHO, I do not believe any #14 pick is worth $30 milion dollars -- especially to Sarver.

You know they play basketball too, right?

You know its a business too, right?

Sorry, Sarver is the guy that took a championship-level team and traded the important Kurt Thomas' expiring contract plus two firsts for raw cap space, "just to save money."

Its a balance. I do not believe teams have an absolute "We won't trade talent for savings" code of law .. particularly when the savings is $30 million dollars. There's no way Earl Clark can produce enough revenue to be worth $30 mil to the Suns.

I do know it's a business, being that I work in it and everything.

john2jer · Post #15 » by **john2jer** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:56 pm

the_bruce · Post #16 » by **the_bruce** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:19 pm

meh I'd think that 1 of the cats/utah pick or pekovic rights, or some combination thereof could sway this to being more in PHX's favor in both $$ & talent.

PHX is pretty screwed right now imo. They don't really have the assets to rebuild, and they don't have a team that can contend. Its really sad as I watched a lot of sun basketball when I was working in phx a few years ago.

Biff Cooper · Post #17 » by **Biff Cooper** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:42 pm

bruceallen61 wrote:meh I'd think that 1 of the cats/utah pick or pekovic rights, or some combination thereof could sway this to being more in PHX's favor in both $$ & talent.

PHX is pretty screwed right now imo. They don't really have the assets to rebuild, and they don't have a team that can contend. Its really sad as I watched a lot of sun basketball when I was working in phx a few years ago.

Obviously - Pekovic is far more valuable than Clark. Cats pick might also be more valuable than Clark. I say no if we need to give up either of those assets along with Atkins. I'm fine with the Jazz pick or the Houston 2nd rounder or Norel or Lucas Malfa... along with Atkins, but not Pek or Cats.

Post #18 » by **Worm Guts** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:50 pm

Biff Cooper wrote:
Obviously - Pekovic is far more valuable than Clark.

I don't know about that

shrink · Post #19 » by **shrink** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:21 pm

OK, this may be a reach, but PHO may have some light at the end of the tunnel, from an unlikely source .. GSW.

Yesterday GSW made an odd trade with the Nets. They owe the Nets a mostly lottery 1st round pick in 2011 .. not even 2010. Yesterday they made a "swap" that made the pick protected in 2011 as well, and lowered the protections starting in 2012.

Many on the Trade Board suspect something's up. For those of you familiar with the Ted Stepien rule, you can't owe two consecutive future 1sts. With this trade, PHO has now made their 2010 elligible for a future trade.

If you're still with me, some have suggested it may be part of an Amare Stoudemire deal. There were rumors that the Suns and Warriors had been discussing a deal in the past, and couldn't agree on terms. Part of the Amare deal could include some cap reduction, since GSW is $6 mil under the lux, and can afford to take back some of PHO's extra salary.

An Amare deal alone can't get the Suns under the lux, and would probably save only $2-$3 mil of the $4.8 they need. However, it would give them pieces that would allow them to make the deal fly that might get them under the lux.

Quickly, something like:

PHO GIVES: Amare
PHO GETS: Biedrins Wilkins Atkins

GSW GIVES: Biedrins + Claxton + 1st (with some protection)
GSW GETS: Amare

MIN GIVES: Atkins + Wilkins
MIN GETS: Claxton + 1st (with some protection)

PHO gets Biedrins and $15 mil
GSW gets Amare
MIN gets 1st

... would have some appeal.

Biff Cooper · Post #20 » by **Biff Cooper** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:46 pm

Worm Guts wrote:
Biff Cooper wrote:
Obviously - Pekovic is far more valuable than Clark.

I don't know about that

I've heard Pek rated as the best center playing in Europe. Within the past year:

He helped Montenegro win the B division of the European Nation Championships - lifting them up to division A for next year.
He helped lead Panathinaikos to the Greek League Championship
He helped lead Panathinaikos to the Championship of the entire Euroleague where he was the only guy on Panathinaikos to be named to the All-Euroleague first team

The only way I could see that Earl Clark would be more valuable to the Wolves than Pekovic would be if Pekovic decided he would never come to the NBA.