Green Bay/St. Louis Pregame Talk

[Ayt]

Grumblings about Hawk are getting a little louder. I was told he played last week but doubted it. I was schocked when I looked at the stats and found out not only did he play, he had three more tackles than I did in the game Sunday. "But surely he was assignment sure" you say. I mean what other reason would the Packers coaches have for leaving Hawk on the field while a playmaker sits on the bench (Bishop).

http://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/packers-blowing-it-with-bishop

Clearly a doctered video at the bottom because I have been told numerous times that Hawk is always assignment sure.

Hawk is always in right position = Luke Ridnour runs an offense well = Jason Kendall knows how to handle a pitching staff.

I don't even see the problem with that play. Hawk actually read the run, took on the blocker on the proper side and tried to make the play. Look at where the other players are (or aren't, in this case).

Chillar likely would have made the play if Pickett wasn't dominated. Instead, Chillar got tripped up by the guard scraping off. Then Rouse missed the tackle. Pickett specifically then Rouse were the two guys most responsible for that play.

If Hawk makes the TFL there the same people would be shocked he actually made a play in the backfield. Frankly, the guy is a fool if he doesn't think the LBs are supposed to adjust if they read run on an inside blitz like that.

[rilamann]

Bishop might be capable of making more big plays than Hawk but Bishop is more prone to giving up the big play than Hawk.

Hawk is the classic guy who maybe doesn't make a ton of big plays but at the same time he isn't going to get burned on plays very often,Hawk isn't spectacular but he's solid.

I think part of the frustration comes from Hawk being the 5th overall pick,I agree we should expect more than a ''solid player'' from a guy who was picked that high but it's not Hawk's fault he was picked at 5.

If Hawk was a 2nd or 3rd round pick we'd be saying he was a great pick. Hawk is solid but you'd just expect more form a guy drafted at #5 and I think that has more to do with why people are frustrated with him than anything else,he's solid.


Now benching Barnett for Bishop is something I might take a chance on.

[Ill-yasova]

Bishop might be capable of making more big plays than Hawk but Bishop is more prone to giving up the big play than Hawk.

Hawk is the classic guy who maybe doesn't make a ton of big plays but at the same time he isn't going to get burned on plays very often,Hawk isn't spectacular but he's solid.

I think part of the frustration comes from Hawk being the 5th overall pick,I agree we should expect more than a ''solid player'' from a guy who was picked that high but it's not Hawk's fault he was picked at 5.

If Hawk was a 2nd or 3rd round pick we'd be saying he was a great pick. Hawk is solid but you'd just expect more form a guy drafted at #5 and I think that has more to do with why people are frustrated with him than anything else,he's solid.


Now benching Barnett for Bishop is something I might take a chance on.

You may talk about "giving up the big play" but as an inside LB in a 3-4 you have to be stout against the run have the ability to blitz. Both things Bishop has shown an ability to do and both things Hawk is severely limited at. If Aj Hawk was a 2nd or 3rd rounder I would still wonder where he was every Sunday. He's gotten worse every year of his career (not debatable) and this year seems to be no exception.

And as far as the video with the game against the Vikings goes. A quick RB versus a LB in the open field and you hold that against the LB? How many guys would have made that tackle? Great move by Taylor, end of story.

[trwi7]

Desmond Bishop is the first and only linebacker that looked foolish courtesy of Adrian Peterson.

(Shouldn't need green font)

[trwi7]

Just saw on ESPN bottom line that Collins is expected to play.

[Newz]

Desmond Bishop is the first and only linebacker that looked foolish courtesy of Adrian Peterson.

(Shouldn't need green font)

I think that was Chester Taylor, wasn't it? I couldn't fully tell on the replay, but it looked like a 29.

Regardless, you cannot just post one play as a reason that a linebacker isn't a good player.

[Ayt]

It was Taylor. Bishop made another very bad play in that game as well, but I don't remember off hand what it was. He also, of course, caused a big fumble.

Still, we're a zone team now so he's not going to asked to cover guys like that one on one with no one else within 20 yards of him.

[Buck You]

Just saw on ESPN bottom line that Collins is expected to play.

I thought I heard on the news last night that he was out?

[trwi7]

Just saw on ESPN bottom line that Collins is expected to play.

I thought I heard on the news last night that he was out?

Head Coach Mike McCarthy said Friday that he expects free safety Nick Collins, who sustained a chest injury last Sunday vs. Cincinnati, to start against the Rams, and Martin will open up opposite him at strong safety.

http://www.packers.com/news/stories/2009/09/25/4/

[emunney]

Good. It would be huge for us if Martin breaks out as a safety.

[rilamann]

Why am I not surprised Twirl & LukePliska can't tell the difference between Chester Taylor & Adrian Peterson.Even with the announcer yelling ''Chester Taylor'' like 5 times when he made the play.

I agree that Adrian Peterson guy who plays for that purple team is pretty good though guys.




As for the play that Bishop gave up it doesn't matter if he's a linebacker or that Chester Taylor is a solid back.

Any good coach at any level will tell you that when you put yourself in a position to make the play YOU GOTTA MAKE THE PLAY...or you don't play.

I'm pretty sure that is MM's philosophy as well and that's likely why Bishop isn't starting over Hawk.

The bottom line is Desmond Bishop put himself in a position to make the play and he wifed and gave up a touchdown in game we lost by 1pt.

Bishop over pursued big time which is the last thing you should do when trying to tackle someone like a Chester Taylor,Bishop is a big athletic LB he could have and should have made that play.

And it's not just 1 play,I simply used that play as an example. Desmond Bishop is more of a hit or miss type of player.Bishop seems to either do something really bad or really good and it's safer to have AJ Hawk in there because Hawk,while he might not make a ton of big plays he ain't going to whif like that and give up a touchdown.

I actually like Desmond Bishop,I think that even though he might make a mistake and give up a big play from time to time he's pretty solid overall.I just don't think he should be starting over AJ Hawk and that's really all im saying here..

I say give Bishop a shot at Barnett's spot,I think Bishop would be just fine inside and we don't really have much to lose there Barnett is a back up at this point and the one who shouldn't be starting.If anything Chillar should be starting over Barnett.

If it was up to me I'd start Kampman,Hawk,Bishop,Matthews.

[rilamann]

Good. It would be huge for us if Martin breaks out as a safety.

I'm not necessarily expecting much from Martin but I am intrigued to see how he plays tomorrow.I think there is a chance he could be one of those guys who will take advantage of his opportunity and not look back.

We'll see,part of the reason I feel that way is that he comes from one of the best team's in the league defensively and probably never really got a chance to show what he can do yet at the same time learned from some of the best.

I'm actually a big fan of Bigby when he's healthy which isn't very often so it would be huge if Martin could be a ''breakout when he got a chance'' type of player.

[Ill-yasova]

I'm hoping Martin could turn out to be an Al Harris kind of find. A guy who was stuck on the bench behind all pro caliber players but turn out to be pretty good themselves. If he doesn't play well cutting Smith could haunt us.

[Buck You]

Just saw on ESPN bottom line that Collins is expected to play.

I thought I heard on the news last night that he was out?

Head Coach Mike McCarthy said Friday that he expects free safety Nick Collins, who sustained a chest injury last Sunday vs. Cincinnati, to start against the Rams, and Martin will open up opposite him at strong safety.

http://www.packers.com/news/stories/2009/09/25/4/

Thanks, I misunderstood the news.

Martin better play well. Even though we only traded Moll for him he's replacing Bigby now and he should be in the area for at least one interception opportunity.

[worthlessBucks]

I'm thinking Steven Jackson scores his first TD of the year this Sunday.

[El Duderino]

If Hawk was a 2nd or 3rd round pick we'd be saying he was a great pick. Hawk is solid but you'd just expect more form a guy drafted at #5 and I think that has more to do with why people are frustrated with him than anything else,he's solid.


Now benching Barnett for Bishop is something I might take a chance on.

If AJ was drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round instead of 5th overall, i wouldn't say then that he'd have been a great pick, just a decent one. Getting a guy like Jennings or Clifton in the second round is what i'd classify as a great pick, AJ isn't near that class of player to be called a great pick unless he was taken in say the 6th or 7th round. A player being able to just not make mistakes is what you hope to get out of 5th/6th/7th rounders.

Yea, guys blowing assignments sure can be costly so it can be good at times when you rarely hear a players name get called during a game, but it's amazing how often in Hawk's career that after a game was over that i could almost think, did AJ even play today.