How Tyreke FITS with our current roster...

[Smills91]

Okay, so go on ANY blog, and I mean ANY blog about the Kings and Tyreke and you'll see a strong sentiment from non-Kings fans that Tyreke Evans is NOT a PG. He can't shoot, he's not a playmaker, he can't distribute. Great player, but he's a '2-guard', cuz he can't shoot worth a lick.



Guess what. I don't buy it.



I look at Tyreke Evans, and see this. A guard. A guard who is bigger, stronger, faster and longer than almost all other guards that he'll ever match up against. Why is this advantageous? Because nearly EVERY single star player in the league has one thing in common. They physically outmatch their competition at their respective positions.

Chris Paul is faster and quicker than almost all PG's.

He who can not be named - Ah screw it, I'm just not going here for SG's, I just can't. I have standards you know.

LeBron James is a FREAK of nature at ANY position, especially SF

Tim Duncan is taller and stronger than most PF's

Dwight Howard is a Freak of a Center

So there you have it. The top 5 plays in the NBA at their respective positions, today.



So let's turn back to Tyreke now. His game right now is a bit raw, but he FLOURISHES when he dominates the ball and finishes AT THE BASKET. He has the ball-handling skills and physical tools to break down his opponents, get to the basket and FINISH.



Now let's examine how this 'type of game' FITS with the Kings current personnel that Tyreke will spend the BULK of his minutes with. I want to focus on the offensive side of the ball and see how things fit there.



Kevin Martin may be one of the, if not currently, the best off-the-ball scorer in the league. He doesn't need the ball in his hands to be make himself a threat to score. He's a phenemonal SHOOTER with a TS% over 60% the past 3 years. He'll cut and move without the ball into a passing lane , which in turn will make the job of Tyreke breaking down the defense and having an outlet if help defense stops his drive. Having someone like Martin is just totally invaluable to Tyreke's game. In fact, I think Martin may be a perfect complement to Tyreke. He's the yin to Tyreke's yang.



Offensively, Nocioni is a decent rebounder, but he's a VERY good 3 point shooter. He shoots the 3 and well over 40% which will help spread the defense for Tyreke to penetrate. If the defense collapses OFF of Noc, then Tyreke has another valve to dump the ball out to for an open three. However, Nocioni is a TERRIBLE ball-handler. Martin's averageness and Nocioni's poor ball-handling skills might lead team to put on-ball pressure to our guards, which in turn has the potential to cause a high number of turnovers. If I were an opposing team's defensive guru, this is EXACTLY what I would do against the Kings. However, Francisco Garcia does a LOT of the same things Nocioni does well, but also brings the ability to initiate the offense, handle the ball and help be an additional playmaker. I think Garcia may be the better fit between the two, but both players will log big minutes when Tyreke is on the floor. I would just roll with Garcia in tandem with 'Reke, more.



Now, for Jason Thompson, the guy has a silky smooth 15-18 foot jumper, which will help draw out opposing team's big men AWAY from the basket. Thus, opening up driving lanes for TYreke to finish at the basket . If a big man cheats off of Thompson, I believe Tyreke is gifted enough to find JT open who in turn is likely to knock down that elbow line 18 footer rather consistently. If the big man does NOT cheat off of JT and Evans is allowed to drive and put up an attempt, I believe that Shock is an apt enough offensive rebounder to garner around 2-3 offensive boards a night from Tyreke ability to collapse the defense. So in theory, JT might be the absolute PERFECT complimentary PF to Tyreke Evans' as we currently know him.



Mr. Hawesome. Ziller had a great write-up today on Spencer's ability to really STRETCH the D. Having both JT and HAwes in your frontcourt, at least offensively speaking, can basically invert a team's defense scheme OR force them to play zone(even better when you consider that Martin, Nocioni, Hawes all have 3 point range and JT has the ability to hit the mid-range and long 2's consistently from the field). By doing this, 'Reke may have to only beat ONE defender to get to the rim, OR else the other 4 players will get some open looks from distance. I like our chances if Martin, Hawes(from the short corner), Noc/Garcia get open looks....they've all proven to be dependable deep ball shooters.



At Memphis, Calipari developed an offense that suited Tyreke's STRENGTH. Scoring AT THE BASKET. Tyreke very well may be a sub-standard shooter for a guard from distance, however, he's an absolute BEAST when he gets to the rim. The offense that Calipari developed was a "drive and kick" styled offense. I see no reason why some type of variant couldn't be used by Westphal to accentuate this teams strengths(SHOOTERS in the starting line-up, with a ball dominating guard who has the ability to get to the rim) and minimize their main fundamental weaknesses as a unit(ball control and strength - only Tyreke is physically dominant over the opponent on most nights).



To conclude, I'd think that not only did the Kings perhaps draft the best player on the board, but rather they drafted a player who very well may be the BEST fit offensively for our current crop of players on the roster.

I didn't talk much about defense, but Tyreke brings a good fit there along with some added versatility to help our Kings improve over the coming years.



Great pick Geoff! I'm excited for the season!

[pillwenney]

I have the same concerns as everybody else, and if I weren't a Kings fan who put nearly all of my faith in Geoff, I'd probably be making the same comments.

As I have said before, I'm not that concerned about his shooting. If he's a PG he'll presumably be the guy with the ball in his hands, making plays--making his shooting a little bit less important (though still important).

I'm much, much more concerned about his playmaking. No matter how you slice it, a basically 1/1 Assist/TO is flat out bad. Now he has plenty of time to improve on it, but this is my biggest concern--that he doesn't have the mentality or the skills to really be a PG. His handles are fine, but his court vision, decision making, and PG mentality are all really up in the air right now.

[Smills91]

I have the same concerns as everybody else, and if I weren't a Kings fan who put nearly all of my faith in Geoff, I'd probably be making the same comments.

As I have said before, I'm not that concerned about his shooting. If he's a PG he'll presumably be the guy with the ball in his hands, making plays--making his shooting a little bit less important (though still important).

I'm much, much more concerned about his playmaking. No matter how you slice it, a basically 1/1 Assist/TO is flat out bad. Now he has plenty of time to improve on it, but this is my biggest concern--that he doesn't have the mentality or the skills to really be a PG. His handles are fine, but his court vision, decision making, and PG mentality are all really up in the air right now.

Well Mitch, if you feel bad about this, then maybe read this and you'll feel A LOT better about Tyreke's prospects as a PG.

http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2009/9/28 ... chalice-of

[_SRV_]

Petrie had Udrih, and brought in Rodriguez, I think he's building on Tyreke as a rotation wing player with Martin and Garcia. But we have the next season to find out.

[deNIEd]

I don't think there is anything really to discuss at this point,

The facts are that Evans isn't a "true PG," that his vision isn't as great as some of the others, his ball handling and outside shooting aren't as great as other point guards.

But, he is stronger and bigger and will be able to push around pretty much 90% of the PG's in the league.

He has his strengths and he has his weaknesses, we just need to wait and see which one takes over his game. The fact that he isn't a real traditional point guard or the fact that he's a bulldozer.

[Smills91]

I don't think there is anything really to discuss at this point,

The facts are that Evans isn't a "true PG," that his vision isn't as great as some of the others, his ball handling and outside shooting aren't as great as other point guards.

But, he is stronger and bigger and will be able to push around pretty much 90% of the PG's in the league.

He has his strengths and he has his weaknesses, we just need to wait and see which one takes over his game. The fact that he isn't a real traditional point guard or the fact that he's a bulldozer.

Where or what are these so-called facts? If you click on that link to the article I posted above, the FACTS show that Evans is closer to Derrick Rose than he is Larry Hughes (or any other 2 guard).

[SacKingZZZ]

He isn't a true PG, but we've been there before and it worked out pretty well.

How he fits? Pick and roll. Pick and roll. Pick and roll. Pick and roll. Pick and roll.

[pillwenney]

I must be getting something wrong. I just looked into that website, and it said that assist rate is assist/FG made. Looking at college stats, Rose had 4.7APG to 5.2FGM/game (0.43), whereas Tyreke had 3.9 APG to 6.2FGM/game (0.28). If that's what the stat actually is (and again, I'm just going off of what the website says), then Rose's college year was clearly more prone to passing than Tyreke's (if that's a good stat). However, I'm not a big fan of that stat, if that's how it's measured anyway.

And anyway, my bigger concern with the assist/TO ratio--this doesn't indicate a players PG mentality so much as his PG abilities.

[TDot_nomad]

I think a lot of valid points have been brought up in this thread. I tend to side with the sentiment that 'Reke is not a true point guard. Meaning I don't think he has the mentality to find his teammates at a high percentage when he takes it to the hoop. As mentioned before a PG must have a certain mentality.

I think Tyreke will be great player but I don't think comparing him to Westbrook, G Hill or Chalmers does anything to support the cause. Chalmers and Westbrook often played the 2guard in college, while george hill was a similar player to tyreke in that he was great at getting his own points at the rim. (Rose and DJ were more like true pg's in college but both still have a long way to go in the pro's.) There's a reason Dwayne Wade is a shooting guard even though he can pass quite well; he doesn't have the mentality - he's a scorer first.

I tend to think that Tyreke will be a scorer first - this doesn't mean he won't play PG - I think he can; much like tony parker or derrick rose who are great at getting to the bucket.

Whether or not Tyreke becomes the perfect fit on this team is yet to be seen. I agree that the pick and roll game with JT will be awesome. I just doubt he will become the type of passer some are expecting him to be.

[cdt3]

Mike Bibby put up 5 assists here his first year and was available because the Grizz thought he ws not a true PG. Sound familiar? All that matters to Petrie is W's and wasn't nearly as physically dominant as Evans. Evans is a bigger Chaucey Billups.

In the princeton offense PG's only get 5-7 assists because the offense is run through the bigs. But Evans will get so many back cuts from JT/Hawes in the lane with a lot of freedom because of so many solid 3pts shooters (Garcia, Martin, Noci, Beno, Greene). This group is put together exactly like the great Kings team with explosive scoring and solid defense. The outside guys open up things for the bigs and cutters. This allows JT, Martin and Evans to get to the hoop at well also and get the other team in foul trouble.

Tyreke was a very gutsy move by Petrie. The assists don't matter that much for a title team. Nash and Paul with 10asts a year have zero titles together while TParker has a 6 asts a year and won a couple titles. Any kind of numbers aren't the whole story for a PG. All that matters are wins and Evans put up as many wins in college as Rose. Just from watching most of the summer league when Evans finally started to feed JT they looked lethal together. If Evans can use all the Kings strengths this team will be better than you think.

I have not really been excited in years for the Kings but this team is built to be expolsive but with more toughness as a team as the good old day. I think Evans himself brings a level of toughness Bibby never even had plus Nocioni and Brockman will rub off on JT/Hawes. And the scoring on this team is also just as impressive with how many players including Evans that can go off for 20? Evans will be like Salmons defensively but can play the point. He can just do so much.

Any more questions about Evans?

[pillwenney]

[quote="cdt3"]Mike Bibby put up 5 assists here his first year and was available because the Grizz thought he ws not a true PG. Sound familiar? All that matters to Petrie is W's and wasn't nearly as physically dominant as Evans. Evans is a bigger Chaucey Billups.

In the princeton offense PG's only get 5-7 assists because the offense is run through the bigs. But Evans will get so many back cuts from JT/Hawes in the lane with a lot of freedom because of so many solid 3pts shooters (Garcia, Martin, Noci, Beno, Greene). This group is put together exactly like the great Kings team with explosive scoring and solid defense. The outside guys open up things for the bigs and cutters. This allows JT, Martin and Evans to get to the hoop at well also and get the other team in foul trouble.

Tyreke was a very gutsy move by Petrie. The assists don't matter that much for a title team. Nash and Paul with 10asts a year have zero titles together while TParker has a 6 asts a year and won a couple titles. Any kind of numbers aren't the whole story for a PG. All that matters are wins and Evans put up as many wins in college as Rose. Just from watching most of the summer league when Evans finally started to feed JT they looked lethal together. If Evans can use all the Kings strengths this team will be better than you think.

I have not really been excited in years for the Kings but this team is built to be expolsive but with more toughness as a team as the good old day. I think Evans himself brings a level of toughness Bibby never even had plus Nocioni and Brockman will rub off on JT/Hawes. And the scoring on this team is also just as impressive with how many players including Evans that can go off for 20? Evans will be like Salmons defensively but can play the point. He can just do so much.

Any more questions about Evans?[/quote]

No, because it's not true. The Grizzlies traded Bibby for J-Will for one main reason--ticket sales. Bibby was averaging 8APG for them.

And Tyreke has not shown any ability to play off the ball at all. It doesn't mean that he can't develop something in the future, but as of right now, he is in no way an ideal fit for the Princeton.

Sure, but the team still has to have a system that works for them. A guy like Martin, for instance, would benefit more from a passing PG. Regardless, it's at least reasonable to say that Tyreke is a questionable fit.

[SadKingsFan]

Obviously we have to wait until the season starts to see just what kind of player he is going to be in the NBA. In My Honest opinion, most of these players wont be here when Tyreke is truly ready for NBA stardom or whatever it is you want to call it, so i struggle to really care if he fits with these current crop of players. Now, if were just talking about our 'Core', being Martin, Hawes, and JT, then i dont see why he wouldn't fit.

[ICMTM]

The Kings COVET PG's that put the rock in the hole versus run a team. On another team like the Jazz Evans would have to learn how to be a great distributor. On the Kings the PG's that work out are gunner types.

Spenser Hawes will be just as important in running the team as Tyreke Evans.

[pillwenney]

The Kings COVET PG's that put the rock in the hole versus run a team. On another team like the Jazz Evans would have to learn how to be a great distributor. On the Kings the PG's that work out are gunner types.

Spenser Hawes will be just as important in running the team as Tyreke Evans.

You just can't compare him to a Bibby though--they are polar opposites as players even though they're both scoring PGs for one simple reason--Mike was very effective off the ball, and Tyreke hasn't proven to be at all yet. Thus you can't move him off the ball and really effectively run things through someone else. Tyreke either needs to get better there, or he needs to become a better playmaker.

[ICMTM]

The Kings COVET PG's that put the rock in the hole versus run a team. On another team like the Jazz Evans would have to learn how to be a great distributor. On the Kings the PG's that work out are gunner types.

Spenser Hawes will be just as important in running the team as Tyreke Evans.

You just can't compare him to a Bibby though--they are polar opposites as players even though they're both scoring PGs for one simple reason--Mike was very effective off the ball, and Tyreke hasn't proven to be at all yet. Thus you can't move him off the ball and really effectively run things through someone else. Tyreke either needs to get better there, or he needs to become a better playmaker.

I'll do you one better though...I didn't. I don't get where you're coming from.

[pillwenney]

I'll do you one better though...I didn't. I don't get where you're coming from.

Well, I assumed that your notion that the Kings needing a scoring PG came from the prospect of running a Princeton-type offense (which would be implied with the mention of Spencer), or at least some kind of offense where the ball is outside of Tyreke's hands and he is moving without the ball--which is the important thing to look at here.

[rpa]

For me it's not so much about numbers as it is about pedigree and style with Evans as far as PG goes. Evans has never been labeled any one position--not point guard or shooting guard. He just doesn't have the history or pedigree at any one position the same way a guy like Derrick Rose does (who's had the PG history for years and years). Comparing their stats at Memphis isn't the best of ideas because of the system. You can make the case that it's apples to apples between the 2 but IMO the drive and kick style that Memphis plays puts a real limit on the opportunities for assists as well as the opportunity for playing a real PG role. That is, I think his assists per game in college (Rose's as well) don't mean a damn thing.

My big problem is that Evans has always been the lead guard but hasn't always been the point guard. That tells me that he's going to be looking to take it to the rack first and foremost and then setup team mates. I think that he could eventually learn to play PG and look for team mates over finding his shot but he may not. Of course, there's a legitimate chance that he becomes such a good scorer that you don't want him to defer to teammates too much.

[Smills91]

For me it's not so much about numbers as it is about pedigree and style with Evans as far as PG goes. Evans has never been labeled any one position--not point guard or shooting guard. He just doesn't have the history or pedigree at any one position the same way a guy like Derrick Rose does (who's had the PG history for years and years). Comparing their stats at Memphis isn't the best of ideas because of the system. You can make the case that it's apples to apples between the 2 but IMO the drive and kick style that Memphis plays puts a real limit on the opportunities for assists as well as the opportunity for playing a real PG role. That is, I think his assists per game in college (Rose's as well) don't mean a damn thing.

My big problem is that Evans has always been the lead guard but hasn't always been the point guard. That tells me that he's going to be looking to take it to the rack first and foremost and then setup team mates. I think that he could eventually learn to play PG and look for team mates over finding his shot but he may not. Of course, there's a legitimate chance that he becomes such a good scorer that you don't want him to defer to teammates too much.

Question. Why does the '1' have to be the 'playmaker' on our roster? I've ALWAYS liked the idea of having a Hedo/Christie-like wing to play at the '3' next to Martin and Evans.

[pillwenney]

Question. Why does the '1' have to be the 'playmaker' on our roster? I've ALWAYS liked the idea of having a Hedo/Christie-like wing to play at the '3' next to Martin and Evans.

Because if he's not, it means he is being moved off the ball--where he's considerably less effective. Otherwise, I would be all for that.

[KF10]

To be fair, Rose isn't a pure point guard with the Bulls. At times, he has a passive mentality that limits his full potential. Whether or not he can get over this (I think he can), Rose is not a full point guard like most people suggest. But he is much more ahead in Evans in terms of playmaking/point guard role in general.