Roy's final home start (ever?) - Why aren't you there?

[tsherkin]

Hey Bloody, feeling a little worse about that comment now? Heh.

His motivation doesn't matter, it's functionally clear that it's there. Doc just threw his third shutout of the MONTH (and his 4th CG).

You may have issues of faith, but Doc just comes out and smokes people. It's what he does.

[Bloody_L]

I'm happy to be dead wrong. Maybe his head wasn't in things for a few starts in August, but he clearly got over it. It's shameful that the Jays can't get this guy into a pennant race. Don't trade this man!

[Mustard_Tiger]

I'm happy to be dead wrong. Maybe his head wasn't in things for a few starts in August, but he clearly got over it.

No. Questioning his motivation because he had a few bad starts against the Yankees and Rays (2 of the best offenses in baseball) is ridiculous and stupid. Can't a pitcher just "struggle?" Why does it have to have something to do with effort?

Halladay's post-ASG ERA is now better than his pre-ASG ERA. Yep...definitely the sign of a pitcher who checked out in July.

[Bloody_L]

Questioning my intelligence when my opinion differs from yours. Whatever. Thanks for reminding me why I usually avoid posting on boards such as these. Bye bye.

[s e n s i]

Ouch. Way to go M_T, haha.

[tsherkin]

Questioning my intelligence when my opinion differs from yours. Whatever. Thanks for reminding me why I usually avoid posting on boards such as these. Bye bye.

Bloody, I think the point that he tried to make (indelicately, of course) was that there wasn't any empirical basis to question the motivation of one of the hardest workers in the entirety of professional sports just because he had 3 or 4 bad outings in one month.

Every pitcher, every single pitcher, has off nights. Roy had a few of them and they happened to come in July, but since then, he's been the best pitcher in baseball. Again, which is a really strong indication that he never checked out. If he had, it'd have started in July, and apart from July 4th, he was actually pretty dominant that month. He may have gone 1-4, but he posted an ERA of 3.00, struck out 5.67 batters per walk, put up a WHIP of 1.15 and posted a K/9 of 7.85. He was busily making everyone look bad, but we weren't coming through to help him win the games even though his performance was great.

That's what Mustard was trying to say, albeit with someone more... vigor.

[Mustard_Tiger]

Questioning my intelligence when my opinion differs from yours. Whatever. Thanks for reminding me why I usually avoid posting on boards such as these. Bye bye.

If you think that Halladay's head wasn't in the game because he had a couple of bad starts against the Yankees, then yes, I guess I'm questioning your intelligence.

[Mustard_Tiger]

Ouch. Way to go M_T, haha.

Based on his first few posts, it's not like we're going to miss much.

[Mustard_Tiger]

That's what Mustard was trying to say, albeit with someone more... vigor.

Yes, exactly. You should go around interpreting the things I write with tact, haha. Because that really isn't a concern of mine.

[tsherkin]

lol, M_T.

[Hoopstarr]

To summarize,

-Roy led the majors in CG (9), SHO (4), and IP (230) for the 2nd year in a row
-Had the best K/BB, 2nd best BB/9, and 4th best xFIP in the majors
-Faced the 3rd highest opponents OPS in the majors
-Faced Boston, NY, and Tampa Bay--3 of the 4 best AL offenses--in 15 of his 32 starts. (Zack Greinke faced Cleveland, Detroit, and Chicago 5 times each, Boston once, NY zero times, and Tampa twice, giving up 7 runs in 12 innings.)
-Had a 2.85 ERA before the groin injury (July 9), and 2.72 after
-Pitched 6 of his CGs and 3 of his SHO after the injury
-Risked getting ejected in the 2nd inning of possibly his last start as a Blue Jay in order to stand up for his teammate

BUT, since his W-L record (the worst stat in the universe) was 7-7 in that period, he "checked out"/"mentally left" the team.

[J-Roc]

As far as I'm concerned Roy pitched his last game around the all-star break. He's checked out since then. Even that game against the Yankees was irrelevant.

Your ignorant comments astound me at times. Halladay has a 2.94 ERA since the AS break.

All you stat guys always want to break down the stats. I meant Roy checked out, in that he came to realize around the all-star break that he didn't want to be a Blue Jay anymore. No one else got that sense?

[Mustard_Tiger]

All you stat guys always want to break down the stats.

Yes, posting his ERA in the 2nd half is some serious statistical analysis.

I meant Roy checked out, in that he came to realize around the all-star break that he didn't want to be a Blue Jay anymore. No one else got that sense?

No. What exactly is this opinion based on? Nothing?

[tsherkin]

All you stat guys always want to break down the stats. I meant Roy checked out, in that he came to realize around the all-star break that he didn't want to be a Blue Jay anymore. No one else got that sense?

Easing off things like "ignorant comments" and such, no, I don't see any good reason to say Roy "checked out."

He had a couple of rough games and then returned to dominance. Where did he "check out," and why for only so brief a time? It makes no sense.

[s e n s i]

Hilarious. Telepathy ftw.

[J-Roc]

Meh, I know you're all attached to Roy. He's in my top 3 handful of Jays of all time. But up until the all-star break, I still felt like he'd want to retire a Blue Jay. Something changed. Maybe it's just the media coverage, but I have no doubt Roy will be moved this offseason, and it will have as much to do with him wanting to move on as it would some baseball decision by the Jays.

[tsherkin]

I think that's just personal perception, because there's clearly not a significant difference in performance or in approach to the game. Whether you have no doubt he will be moved or not isn't terribly relevant.

It seems quite likely he will, sure, but it doesn't have any bearing on Roy's mental state, leastwise as far as his performance is concerned.