should matt carroll start at the two?

[JES12]

SHIMO

I tried to follow your responce, but after taking about 5-6 wild guesses at what you were saying, I gave up.

What I did make out was the playing time. To that responce, how on earth can you come up with a rotation when we don't even know who will be on our roster October 1st? Buckner, Jawai, Humphries, Williams...and maybe Carroll too....have a high propability of not being on our team. And even IF you knew the roster was correct, how on earth are you going to know how players do in training camp? How on earth are you going to know who gets injured?

Answer: You don't.

If we learned ANYTHING from Rick, it is that the 1st half of the season he gives everybody an oppertunity (Barea, Wright, Green, Singleton, Bass...all more PT w/Rick while scrubs like Stackhouse, George, Williams, etc. lost their PT cuz they sucked). About Febuary he starts forming his playoff rotation. And you can bet all 15 players will get some burn early in the season; including Carroll.




Oh, and the only trade EVEN RUMORED about dumping Jeffries was in a trade that also took Nate Robinson. IIRC, that wasn't Milwaukee; it was Sacramento for Kenny Thomas.

But that was still a rumor and any rumor involving NY has a high propability of being nothing more than a rumor.

You show me a rumor of NY declining a Jeffries dump and I will show you a link of some fool on hoopsworld thinking Dallas would trade Howard for Marion last year.

[ASIMO]

@JES12

We are writing our guess for rotation, including you.

I believe...

Nobody can predict exact rotation in a fans BBS, as you know.
Nobody can write exact our future in a fans BBS, as you know.
Nobody can talk without including rumors in a fans BBS, as you know.

do you think you write in this way in this board? I think no one can write here if these are rules in a fans bbs. Or are these the policies in this board? No rumor? No prediction? No wish list?


You are a veteran in this board. Your word has meaninful... I can say, at least for me.
If it is true that you are writing in your last post, please tell me. I must keep it. I dont wanna become a bad guy in this board.


[about Feburary]

OK, seemingly I am right on this part. DEN and ORLs seccess are miracles for us.

[JES12]

[about Feburary]

OK, seemingly I am right on this part. DEN and ORLs seccess are miracles for us.

You are trying to compare apples and oranges.

Denver: ANY team in this league will automatically get better without Iverson. He could have broke his leg and let Carter start and the team would be improved. Forget the fact that Billups is a top 3 PG in this league and forget the fact that it was not a mid-season trade (happened at the beginning: like 3 or 4 games in). Those only add to the argument, but just removing Iverson makes that team better. I have said that for years and people called me crazy for saying it. Last year, people finally saw what happens in real life and off their video games.

Orlando: PG was not a core position. Howard, Turk, Shard. Rafer was a dime a dozen PG to replace a dime a dozen PG. And he had playing time because of the injury. Carroll did not have the luxury of an injury to Wright and Terry. If you are refering to my disapproval of the Harris-Kidd trade...those two are a core player no matter what team you put them on. They are toatlly different system guys and totally different styles. Once again, neithe have anything to do with Carroll.

The fact that neither of those is a valid argument for our discussion makes me still wonder why you even bring them up.

[myconsumerclub]

Carroll is a potential good 3 point shooter but I will have to see better than last seasons results to even risk him during the regular season. We are in win now mode and Rod is probably ahead of him in the rotation behind Howard Ross and Terry.

[jlp0807]

You guys are crazy. Shimo, ATeam, get a clue.

Josh Howard is in a contract year! What do you not understand about this? Do you honestly think that he will NOT start?

Matt Carroll has done nothing to prove that he should be a starter on this good of a team. The Mavs would be crazy to play him 30, 15 or less quality minutes and practically ruin our season.

Look at the parity in the West! One or two games could mean the difference between home court, or playing a tougher team in the playoffs. We are not going to risk our season to try to get a little better trade value out of a scrub.

This is in fact the dumbest idea ever posted on this site. Carroll is worthless. He is a defensive liability, is not athletic, cannot rebound, cannot score the number of points we need playing along Kidd and Damp/center.

are u a dope fiend? do u honestly think dallas cares about starting howard because he is in a contract yr? and simply playing carroll to see if he can be effective isnt a bad idea, if he is effective he will get some trade value, if not, he will go back to the bench, nobody suggested keepin this guy in the lineup if hes stinkin up the joint. this is a business simply and plain, manu is also in a contract yr, and im sure mason will still be the starting two in san antonio

To answer your first question, no, I am not a dope fiend.

Yes, I believe Dallas "cares" about starting Howard because he's in a contract year and because he is one of our best players. We were practically .500 w/o Howard last year, and on a 55-win pace with him in the lineup. Howard is one of the keys to this team, and the Mavs should not risk anything by playing MC his minutes.

Manu is the 6th man. Terry is our 6th man. I do not see the comparison.

Carroll has never proven himself to be the calliber of player in JHO or JETs league. He can shoot the 3ball, yes. But we dont need one-hit wonders on this team.

[ASIMO]

[about Feburary]

OK, seemingly I am right on this part. DEN and ORLs seccess are miracles for us.

You are trying to compare apples and oranges.

Denver: ANY team in this league will automatically get better without Iverson. I have said that for years and people called me crazy for saying it. Last year, people finally saw what happens in real life and off their video games.

Orlando: PG was not a core position.

[a trade in the middle of the season]

I think you are not crazy. You are right. And AI might devastate the team and CB is ton of better as PG. Thats right.
But what I want to write is DEN and ORL had to change their game in the middle of the season significantly than Mavs. And they made it. Thats the fact.
(At least i think... you can say their PG is more core position than only 3 pointer. )

According to your last post, Carlisle intentionally stops it after Feburary even thoughy a player might become his guy in the next season, reducing his trade vallue for the coming off season. And we got another 3pointers?
Is this his basketball? Hmmm I like a basketball which can adjust it even in the middle of the season. As you write previously, Injury problems might happen and we must get from FA or trade in the middle of the season. It is very important to win, isnt it?

Howard, Turk, Shard. Rafer was a dime a dozen PG to replace a dime a dozen PG. And he had playing time because of the injury. Carroll did not have the luxury of an injury to Wright and Terry. If you are refering to my disapproval of the Harris-Kidd trade...those two are a core player no matter what team you put them on. They are toatlly different system guys and totally different styles. Once again, neithe have anything to do with Carroll.

The fact that neither of those is a valid argument for our discussion makes me still wonder why you even bring them up.

[System]

If your theory is right, I think this discussion is very important in this board (And I should be defeated ). How is it important that we consider about both teams system before we get a player in the middle of the season even who is an High basketball IQ and only 3 point guy. Considering this point, Im looking forward to seeing your trade proposal in the middle of the season.

But becore that...
Are you saying these are similar to Karls system and Browns system? Adelmans system and Stans system? Or are these teams having very similar type of players?

And if your theory is right, we should havr not gotten Carroll (we should get him only financial mean and trade as soon as possible).
Because I think Carlisles and Browns basketball is similar and Carroll suddenly played poorly under the his basketball.

Anyway if we can get a player from a similar type of the team in the middle of the season, and ifit is for Carlisles basketball, I think we are reducing our possibilities for him.( But I dont think so )


[Carroll]

I can undertand what you are sayin about Carroll if it is about deffence. But I think Carrolls job is very simple in offence basically. And he has a high Basketball IQ, right?
I think it is the problem for him that we have already many 3 pointers on the court. Kidd is always waiting at the 3 point line. Opponents keep focusing on defence around 3 point line through a game. Do you remember? Thats why JET is focing shot as a finisher. Thats why we needed desperately an Attacker, dont we? (JJB did great job at this point in the last season.)

And he had a chance for Jho and Georges injury and Wrights bad offence.
I believe Carroll simply can not find his space in this team. You can already say we dont need him.


[Our most precious season]

What I want to say consistently is Carlisle must decide whether he can handle some player or not as soon as possible. We have no time.

If a player is his guy, a player can play well like CB and Alston.
If he is not his guy he must raise (or protect) players value as much as possible to trade in the offseason.

He did neither for Carroll. (Or he would protect him in HIS way. )

Thats why we traded Diop after several month without testing him on the court, didnt we?
(Or do you think He gave enough chance to Diop?)




If Carlisle will use Carroll in this season, we must keep seeing it and how he is handling veterans PT demands off the court. And seeing them, we think "This is his basketball "

I suddenly remembered why he was fired in DET.

[2011Champs]

I guess I am lost on the posts trying to rationalize Carroll as a permanent starting 2 guard on the Mavs. The whole idea is to showcase his skills by giving him heavy minutes surrounded by starters and have Carroll put up some big stats to make him attractive to other teams looking to fill a void at the 2 guard or in need of a three point specialist. The fact that it is Howard's contract year has nothing to do with showcasing Carroll. Carroll would be taking 10 minutes each from Barea, Terry and Howard in a way that doesn't hurt the team. Carroll puts up 12-14ppg and becomes a trade asset instead of a liability. Carroll is then traded at or before the trade deadline for an expiring contract or better piece of the puzzle. There is no reason not to make your players more attractive to other teams if you want to trade them for better value.

[JES12]

I'm going to leave this thread with one final note and you take it whatever way you want and argue whatever you want , but it will be to deaf ears....

Donnie Neslon was seen high-fiving co-workers and grinning when the Diop-Carroll swap was agreed upon. According to the Philly media, Dallas declined a Matt Carroll (4 years) for Reggie Evans (2 years) trade which then lead to the Evans-Kapono swap. Just a couple of weeks ago, when Toronto was asking about Carroll-Banks (I assume as part of a 3-way) Dallas declined because Toronto wanted additional incentive. If you think Dallas is going to trade Carroll just to get rid of him...you are wrong.

He will be here unless a team values what he can be...not his mid-season, new-system self. He will go through training camp. He will get some burn. Whether you agree or not is irrelivent; that is what Mark, Donnie and Rick think.

And @ SHIMO...you are making way too many false assumptions and own realities inside your head for me to even comment on your post. Pretty much every sentense is wrong and built off the wrong sentense/assumptions just prior to it. Many of the things you said I already answered and you don't accept the answer and then still continue to buid a false reality within yourself.

[ASIMO]

@JES12

1. Haw my three point shots do you want in a game? Isnt it enough to you yet???

2. According to your opinion in another thread, adding Carroll, why do you want to sign with Singleton? Wanna see more PT demands?

3. As you wrote in another thread, we hate to see JET and Barea at the same time. Yes!
And... your answer is Carroll...?

4. And when Mavs rejected Tors offer? Why not you make a topic for it.
(Sorry honestly I dont know about this. And I can not find any article about it. )

5. So... do you think Carrolls value is below to Evans? Was this surprise to you...?


My opinion is...

1. Mavs has no time to showcase Carrolls potential in this precious season.
2. Carroll has still trade value and Mavs should trade him for shorter "valuable" contract as much as possible.
3. Mavs doenst need to shot from three point line anymore. There is no space anymore. We need an attacker. Jho and Marion should play at 2 and 3 as much as possible.
4. We avoid to make PT demands from veteran players. This is business and team sports.

My assumption is Mavs is working for these tasks. Thats why working on trade for Carroll, they got Marion, Ross, TT and Gooden. These are really Nice Moves. I like it.

Is this wrong assumption?
Yeah, you might be right.
I really dont hope that my opinion should be same to Donnies.

And I agree with you we should not argue anymore in this thread.

I really dont wanna see PT demands, more 3 point shot and showcase for Carroll.

I really want to see guys going to the basket to win. Carroll is not my answer unlike you.

Jho(and Ross) is my answer at 2 to win the title. Our opinion is so far.

[the_real_Cstein]

Shimo, I love your sig. And I like ur posts even if they do not make sense in perfect english. you are doing good thinking/analyzing. Where u from?

I am not surprised the mavs declined Carroll for Evans.. It appears donnie still has faith in Carroll and the mavs also value player personalities and locker room tension as well. Evans might be a good contract and fill a banger role, but he also grabbed kamans ball sack during a game a few seasons ago. We cannot have reggie and kaman in the same locker room.

[ASIMO]

@the_real_Cstein

I am an japanese poor english speaker.
I know I must say to thank JES12 for replying my opinion...
I am writing with smile and try to write peaceful article... but these are always too much long and I am poor to summerize my opinion. I know I am a bad guy in this thread...
Thank you, JES12 and the_real_Cstein. Im really really sorry for my english.

Maybe I should write it in sig...


[about Evans]
Surely as you wrote I dont expect Mavs gets Evans to play behind Dirk pushing Marion and TT out.
I think that using Carrolls trade value, Mavs needs to diminish Diops failure as much as possible.
Im afraid I dont think Mavs has a time to test Carroll in this team. Before that, Mavs need to spend more time to test Jho and Ross at 2. And we see JET at 2. It should be tough to do them at the same time.

And I think Evans Play-style and Character prevent to get more shorter contract even than Carroll.
I believe that getting Evans means the end of the explore for it. Mavs should seek for more possibilities.

[the_real_Cstein]

It's ok shimo. Just requires practice. It's amazing how diverse the mavs fan base is. Keep the good thoughts coming, don't be sorry.

[SamBone]

what is the love affare with QRoss???????

Ross


Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
04-05 LAC 78 19 21.3 0.432 0.250 0.673 0.8 1.9 2.7 1.4 0.6 0.3 0.69 2.10 5.1
05-06 LAC 67 45 22.6 0.422 0.000 0.760 0.6 2.0 2.5 1.2 0.8 0.2 0.70 2.30 4.7
06-07 LAC 81 43 21.0 0.467 0.200 0.782 0.7 1.6 2.3 1.1 0.9 0.4 0.41 2.20 5.2
07-08 LAC 76 44 19.8 0.391 0.429 0.667 0.7 1.6 2.3 1.2 0.6 0.4 0.38 1.70 4.1
08-09 MEM 68 7 17.1 0.382 0.375 0.810 0.4 1.4 1.9 0.7 0.5 0.2 0.53 1.70 3.9
Career -- 370 158 20.4 0.422 0.346 0.730 0.6 1.7 2.3 1.1 0.7 0.3 0.54 2.00 4.6

Carroll
Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
04-05 CHA 25 0 17.2 0.389 0.333 0.855 0.5 1.9 2.4 0.7 0.7 0.1 1.00 1.50 9.0
05-06 CHA 78 6 16.3 0.403 0.389 0.821 0.4 1.6 2.0 0.4 0.6 0.1 0.62 1.50 7.6
06-07 CHA 72 47 26.1 0.433 0.416 0.904 0.5 2.4 2.9 1.3 0.7 0.1 1.01 2.40 12.1
07-08 CHA 80 18 25.2 0.428 0.436 0.804 0.4 2.4 2.8 0.9 0.6 0.2 0.73 2.30 9.0
08-09 CHA 34 10 14.0 0.406 0.267 0.789 0.1 1.5 1.6 0.7 0.5 0.2 0.76 1.60 4.1
08-09 DAL 21 0 6.7 0.273 0.125 1.000 0.1 0.6 0.7 0.1 0.1 0.1 0.33 0.70 1.2

[ASIMO]

what is the love affare with QRoss???????

Before comparing to both guys stats, at first I consider whether this guy can be fit in our coaches strategy or not.

Thats why I kept saying Mavs should get Marion for Carlisle. It doesnt mean he is the best player in the market. It means he is the best SF for Carlisle in the market.

I think Ross is similar to Michael Curry who was the Carlisles guy in DET and IND.

And I think Ross can replace to Jho easier than Carroll when Jho got injured.
(you can say same thing to TT(for Dirk) and Singleton (for Matrix))


I dont think Ross < Carroll or Ross > Carroll.
Remembering JJB and Singletons success, I think a success especially for a role player much depends on the team demands and the coaches preference.

[JES12]

Matt Carroll with a training camp away from Larry Brown may not be all that bad. I want to see what he does after a Carslile training camp before calling "worst ever" or "scrub"

SHARP-SHOOTING – AND SHARP-SEEING: My spies who watch the closed practices say that in the last two days, Matt Carroll has been spectacular as a perimeter shooter. Maybe it’s the Lasik surgery (and the goofy protective eyewear that goes with it). Or maybe it’s just a comfort level he never found a year ago.

“He came in last year (after being acquired from Charlotte in the Diop trade) and was never allowed to find his bearings,’’ Carlisle said. “It was unfair. Now he’s got a full training camp. We know he’s a good player, a terrific shooter, and a weapon for us.’’

Link

[thaAteam]

Matt Carroll with a training camp away from Larry Brown may not be all that bad. I want to see what he does after a Carslile training camp before calling "worst ever" or "scrub"

SHARP-SHOOTING – AND SHARP-SEEING: My spies who watch the closed practices say that in the last two days, Matt Carroll has been spectacular as a perimeter shooter. Maybe it’s the Lasik surgery (and the goofy protective eyewear that goes with it). Or maybe it’s just a comfort level he never found a year ago.

“He came in last year (after being acquired from Charlotte in the Diop trade) and was never allowed to find his bearings,’’ Carlisle said. “It was unfair. Now he’s got a full training camp. We know he’s a good player, a terrific shooter, and a weapon for us.’’

Link

yea, my question doesnt look so bad now does it........

[dirtyfilthynasty]

Yes it does. I actually can't even believe you brought this back up. I'm embarrassed for you.

[TsunamiZC]

Yes it does. I actually can't even believe you brought this back up. I'm embarrassed for you.

At worst that could be people blowing smoke, but at least its from outside sources who have nothing to really gain from Carroll finding his berries....opps bearings.

I dont think his comfort level really affected the way he played on D..so im not really excited to see him during the reg. season, but the NBA has a place for sharp shooters, whether it be as a Maverick or on some other team if his value goes up and good enough for trade bait.

[catalyst]

yea, my question doesnt look so bad now does it........

Lets play a few games before we see how great your question is.....

[thaAteam]

Yes it does. I actually can't even believe you brought this back up. I'm embarrassed for you.

i didnt bring this back up jes did