Couple offseason questions

Hendrix · Post #1 » by **Hendrix** » Thu Oct 1, 2009 12:32 am

I'm a casual fan of the team, and havn't really kept up to date with the Jays this year.

I was wondering basically what the plans for the team are this summer. Are we going to boost the salaries up to $130 million? Can we throw $20 mm @ Bay, and $13mm @ Figgins, and get them? Or are we looking to re-build?

Post #2 » by **tsherkin** » Thu Oct 1, 2009 3:07 am

Given that we couldn't even sign all of our draft picks, unless the team gets sold, I'm expecting 75-80 million in payroll and no significant additions unless we trade Halladay.

Raps in 4 · Post #3 » by **Raps in 4** » Thu Oct 1, 2009 4:17 am

We can follow Wells' summer workout the same way we followed Bosh. it'll be exciting. Wells is such a hard worker.

Bloody_L · Post #4 » by **Bloody_L** » Thu Oct 1, 2009 4:40 am

Nothing the Blue Jays have done this season suggests that they will increase payroll next year, but we've all heard how Bob McCown has been insisting that the payroll will be between $100-120 million next year. As far-fetched as that seems, Bob is usually in the know on the business side of things. If that's true, I'd bet the Jays will throw a ton of money at Jason Bay, having an all-star Canadian on the team means butts in the seats.

Mustard_Tiger · Post #5 » by **Mustard_Tiger** » Thu Oct 1, 2009 5:33 am

Hendrix wrote:I'm a casual fan of the team, and havn't really kept up to date with the Jays this year.

I was wondering basically what the plans for the team are this summer. Are we going to boost the salaries up to $130 million? Can we throw $20 mm @ Bay, and $13mm @ Figgins, and get them? Or are we looking to re-build?

Ask Rogers Communications.

Hendrix · Post #6 » by **Hendrix** » Thu Oct 1, 2009 8:33 am

tsherkin wrote:Given that we couldn't even sign all of our draft picks, unless the team gets sold, I'm expecting 75-80 million in payroll and no significant additions unless we trade Halladay.

Can the ownership really afford to do this at this point though? It seems like fan interest of the team is teetering on the brink of being disasterous.

Post #7 » by **tsherkin** » Thu Oct 1, 2009 6:16 pm

Hendrix wrote:Can the ownership really afford to do this at this point though? It seems like fan interest of the team is teetering on the brink of being disasterous.

$75-80 million would be us reducing payroll, IIRC. I would love to see Bay and Figgins added to a team that retained Halladay, and I'm fairly sure that such a team would draw enough people to support the payroll. I think fans are just looking for a reason to care, because the Jays have been so futile for the past 16 years. Seriously, when was the last time we were CLOSE to the wild card?

Last year, we were 11 games back of the division lead (much better than this year) because the Yanks went into epic-fail mode. And still won 89 games. We were 9 wins behind the BoSox. In 06, we were close in our division (87 wins, 10 wins less than the Yanks) but the Central division was brutally strong and the Twins and Tigers won 96 and 95 games, screwing us. And the As were better (as were the Angels). We are better this year than we were in 2004, when our payroll was bigger.

We haven't really ever been competitive in this division, not since winning the last World Series. If we suddenly added a Gold Glove third baseman with speed and a 30/100 .280 Canadian guy to our roster, between that and the up-and-coming talent we have in Lind and Hill, I think people would come out to watch.

We'd have a chance.

Right now, we have no chance, it's futile, the team sucks and the only difference from year to year is how close we are to Baltimore's level of futility. And, wouldn't you know, Baltimore has a division banner during that same timeframe where we haven't even made the playoffs.

I think Rogers can afford to put the payroll up, but will they? That's a much bigger question.

noname3 · Post #8 » by **noname3** » Thu Oct 1, 2009 6:37 pm

Give up, Rogers will never put up that kind of payroll b/c they dont rely on the blue jays to earn money, they got revenue from the whole country...if the team isnt losing alot of money they dont care, team success starts from ownership and management but rite now both of them sucks

Hendrix · Post #9 » by **Hendrix** » Thu Oct 1, 2009 7:51 pm

This year we had an attendance of 1.8mm, with an average ticket price of $27 which is pretty terrible for our standards. If they bring back the same team minus Halladay. Or even the same team they have now I think attendance will drop even below that since people are getting frustrated w/ the same thing year after year.

To get Figgins, and Bay it would cost ~$33mm correct?

That should be a 90+ win team, and a wild card team I would think. Although I'm no baseball math wizz. But a 90+ win team would probably generate 2.5mm-3mm fans. Plus more sponsoship money. Merchandise sales. Playoff $. Consessions. More fan interest for future years. Higher team worth. etc...

I would think that would be worth it. The disparity in attendance alone could be almost enough to pay those salaries imo.

Post #10 » by **tsherkin** » Thu Oct 1, 2009 10:25 pm

Oh, if you meant do I EXPECT Bay and Figgins?

God no, I thought meant could they afford a payroll of $75-80 million. My bad, reading comprehension.

There's almost no chance Rogers puts more money into this team, even though it would raise attendance and therefore revenue.

J-Roc · Post #11 » by **J-Roc** » Fri Oct 2, 2009 2:23 am

No one has any idea what the plan is. Obviously get a president first. Probably at that point the decision on payroll would be made.

Hoopstarr · Post #12 » by **Hoopstarr** » Fri Oct 2, 2009 5:44 am

There's an off-season thread already, but to answer the question, there's no way Bay gets $20M and Figgins get $13M, unless the team really really wants them and it's on a short contract. I'd say more like 15-17 for Bay and 8-10 for Figgins max.

Mike Hunt · Post #13 » by **Mike Hunt** » Sat Oct 3, 2009 6:04 pm

I think you have to go in the opposite direction (rebuild). When you're in a division with the yankees and red sox, you need great players to contend. A 75 win team (who lets face it, prior to expanded rosters was more of a 67-70 win team) in the strongest division in all of sports, let alone baseball, needs to make more than a couple off-season signings to compete. They need to develop more stars from within which is easier said than done. The Jays could sign Figgins, Bay and whoever the top FA pitcher will be and still probably wouldn't compete. But they sure could lose more money and waste more time. Even with an inferior product on the field than this year, I don't think the attendance would go down that much. How could it? It already was pretty much only the hardcore fans that still went to games. The Jays have proven that they are not a star driven team gate-wise (neither Halladay nor Clemens ever really changed those numbers) so adding a Jason Bay, despite the fact that he's Canadian, will not guarantee any more fans in the stadium (except if he impacts the team in a huge way on the field).

The_Hater · Post #14 » by **The_Hater** » Sat Oct 3, 2009 6:27 pm

I wouldn't want Figgins. Guys that rely on their speed and versitility are generally overvalued and don't age well.

But allocating the Rios money to Jason Bay would be a good move, although I don't see the Sox letting him go.

Post #15 » by **tsherkin** » Sat Oct 3, 2009 8:43 pm

If we're committed to spending to compete, then that's great. If we're not, I can accept terrible losing seasons if we're developing talent and getting (and SIGNING) good picks, but we need to pick one route or the other.

Hendrix · Post #16 » by **Hendrix** » Sun Oct 4, 2009 11:36 pm

Mike Hunt wrote:I think you have to go in the opposite direction (rebuild). When you're in a division with the yankees and red sox, you need great players to contend. A 75 win team (who lets face it, prior to expanded rosters was more of a 67-70 win team) in the strongest division in all of sports, let alone baseball, needs to make more than a couple off-season signings to compete. They need to develop more stars from within which is easier said than done. The Jays could sign Figgins, Bay and whoever the top FA pitcher will be and still probably wouldn't compete. But they sure could lose more money and waste more time. Even with an inferior product on the field than this year, I don't think the attendance would go down that much. How could it? It already was pretty much only the hardcore fans that still went to games. The Jays have proven that they are not a star driven team gate-wise (neither Halladay nor Clemens ever really changed those numbers) so adding a Jason Bay, despite the fact that he's Canadian, will not guarantee any more fans in the stadium (except if he impacts the team in a huge way on the field).

You don't think we would compete with that team?

Figgins .298 /.396 /.394 /.791
Scutaro .282 /.379 /.409 /.789
Lind .305 /.370 /.562 /.932
Bay /.268 /.385 /.538 /.923
Hill .288 /.331 /.501 /.833

Looks like a pretty solid top 5 imo. 42 SB's from the leadoff, and 125 Hr's. Round out the rotation with Overbay, Ruiz, Wells, Snider (who's lined up to catch?) and I think you have a very nie offense. If Halladay came back, and we got some of our other pitchers back could have a nice rotation. Bay also might be worth twice as much since he would be a big addition to us, and a big loss to one of our main oppnents.

I dunno, I'm fuggin sick of watching a loosing team. I don't want to watch a rebuild.

LLJ · Post #17 » by **LLJ** » Mon Oct 5, 2009 5:34 pm

Mike Hunt wrote:I think you have to go in the opposite direction (rebuild). When you're in a division with the yankees and red sox, you need great players to contend. A 75 win team (who lets face it, prior to expanded rosters was more of a 67-70 win team) in the strongest division in all of sports, let alone baseball, needs to make more than a couple off-season signings to compete. They need to develop more stars from within which is easier said than done. The Jays could sign Figgins, Bay and whoever the top FA pitcher will be and still probably wouldn't compete. But they sure could lose more money and waste more time. Even with an inferior product on the field than this year, I don't think the attendance would go down that much. How could it? It already was pretty much only the hardcore fans that still went to games. The Jays have proven that they are not a star driven team gate-wise (neither Halladay nor Clemens ever really changed those numbers) so adding a Jason Bay, despite the fact that he's Canadian, will not guarantee any more fans in the stadium (except if he impacts the team in a huge way on the field).

For all the stupidity of some Toronto sports fans, when all is said and done they're still smart enough to stay away from a team until they start winning. It doesn't matter what sport. If Kobe Bryant was here but we were a 25 win team we'd still fail to sellout every game in the season, I bet.

In previous years prior to this one, the team was mediocre (by our division's standards) but still good enough for fans to hope that they might have a good year (playoffs). So attendance was still steady. But a couple of more years like this one and we can expect the Jays to break new attendance lows year after year.