Semi-OT: Brian Burke ? Bryan Colangelo. Not even close.

[YogiStewart]

moved to the Leafs' board.

[Hoop-la]

Didn't they trade their first rounder?

They traded away 2 first rounders (2010 & 2011) and 2nd round pick for 2010 draft.

I don't know why you're even laughing. The trade was a complete for the Leafs. They acquired a 22 year old in Phil Kessel who scored 36 goals in around 76 games I believe. YES TWENTY TWO!

They traded unknown commodities for a proven goal scorer who's a few years from his prime. Everyone acts as though they gave away their draft picks for an aging superstar or something. And to add on, the 2010 draft is considered one of the worst drafts of the last decade so the chances of the Bruins drafting a player of Kessel's skillset with those picks are a far shot.

Even with their slow start, the Leafs were predicted by many experts to make the playoffs as a late seed or miss it by a bit. So the picks shouldn't be that high up. Who knows, I may be wrong and the Leafs season ends horrible and they send off high picks or they could play well and give up a mid first rounder next year for a young sniper.

[Rainman66]

Five games in, and Burke is a horrible GM? You guys are tough...

+1

The Raptors have difficult schedule to start out the season, don't be surprised if they end up having a similar recod as the leafs (W/L)

[Koosh]

But the point was to compare the two general managers which wouldn't make it entirely a hockey topic. I thought that was pretty obvious but okay! Thanks!

[cram]

Yogi -- why move this to the leafs board? Its as or more raptor related than 90% of the threads you start.

As for the comparison, Burke has a championship. BC hasn't been close. Burke has been here for a very short time. Give him a year or two before measuring.

[Koosh]

Yogi -- why move this to the leafs board? Its as or more raptor related than 90% of the threads you start.

My thoughts exactly. But you know, he's gotta hit his quota... wait...

[cram]

Yogi -- why move this to the leafs board? Its as or more raptor related than 90% of the threads you start.

My thoughts exactly. But you know, he's gotta hit his quota... wait...

Its a joke.... If Yogi starts a thread that was about "what do you think each raptor's favourite flavour of freezee is?" it will stay open and in the raptors forum.

Someone compares Colangelo to Burke and it somehow gets moved out of hte raptors forum.

Funny.

[J Dilla]

Burke is too focused on tough guys and defense while BC was focused on guys that can shoot the basketball. Both extremes are bad, there's gotta be a balance.

The Leafs can't score, and by the looks of it the Kessell deal is going to be a disaster. The Leafs have no player that will set him up like Savard did. Leafs need to bring back Nazem Kadri, because what they have right now is pure trash. And please do something about the goaltending.

I just hope this Raptor team doesn't end up like the Leafs after a successful offseason.

[Bankai]

Burke is too focused on tough guys and defense while BC was focused on guys that can shoot the basketball. Both extremes are bad, there's gotta be a balance.

The Leafs can't score, and by the looks of it the Kessell deal is going to be a disaster. The Leafs have no player that will set him up like Savard did. Leafs need to bring back Nazem Kadri, because what they have right now is pure trash. And please do something about the goaltending.

I just hope this Raptor team doesn't end up like the Leafs after a successful offseason.

IMO this is spot on. But ill add that while Burke is too focused on tough guys and defense, I dont normally watch Leaf games or am not a fan. But ive watched 3 games this season, from what ive been seeing so far, the defense of the Leafs have been really bad. Ive seen Toskala in unfair situations where he gets pwned and dont like it when the media is singling him out.

This is Ironic because because Colangelos stick has been getting offensive minded guys to play in an offensive system. Yet during the preseason, so far their team defense has been alot better than what people were giving them credit for coming into the season and they have gotten their 2 wins when they had key stops in crunch time.

Burke = Looking for tough Defense mentality, isint getting it
Colangelo = Not really looking for Defense mentality, is getting it

Maybe it has to do with who is controlling the teams (Wilson, Triano and thier respective personell).

[D-Wins-RingsIMO]

what in the **** are you talking about?

What was BC's record 5 games into 2006? The team started 2-8 did it not?

Also how many championships has each GM won?

[Yuri Vaultin]

I don't know why you're even laughing. The trade was a complete for the Leafs. They acquired a 22 year old in Phil Kessel who scored 36 goals in around 76 games I believe. YES TWENTY TWO!

They traded unknown commodities for a proven goal scorer who's a few years from his prime. Everyone acts as though they gave away their draft picks for an aging superstar or something. And to add on, the 2010 draft is considered one of the worst drafts of the last decade so the chances of the Bruins drafting a player of Kessel's skillset with those picks are a far shot.

Even with their slow start, the Leafs were predicted by many experts to make the playoffs as a late seed or miss it by a bit. So the picks shouldn't be that high up. Who knows, I may be wrong and the Leafs season ends horrible and they send off high picks or they could play well and give up a mid first rounder next year for a young sniper.

First off, I'm not against the trade for Kessel. However there are a few points that need to be addressed.

Kessel is coming off a shoulder injury/surgery and may not be the immediate saviour some are making him out be.

Kessel scored 36 goals, but he was playing with arguably the best play maker playing right now in Marc Savard - who is going to set Kessel up now? We really have no one that can play with him and set him up.

[The Duke]

Burke beleives in the top 6/bottom 6 theory.... the problem is our top 6 is not good enuff. In fact it is no where near good enough skill wise.... thats essentially the problem.

I was not a fan of the kessel trade, especially if we are out of the playoffs... and if its top 5 pick its bad. I know the argument of Kessel being 22 at all however, I dont think he will be hugely productive this year (a combination of his health, our remaining players, and when he comes back into the lineup we likely might be very very far behind).

Wouldn't it have been better to not make the trade now... keep the 2010 and 2011 picks. Use the 2010 pick to draft a player (presumably high). Resign our RFA we like. Sign UFA we may like. Then send our 2011 and 2012 picks to other team for a Young Gun. This essentially delays the "kessel-like aquistion" one year, where that player will enter into a MUCH stronger team.

[LLJ]

Burke assessed his current team incorrectly. He wanted a defensive team, but to me it looks like their defence is even worse than their offence, which was supposed to be the worst part. It seems like every game the Leafs have let in an average of 5 goals.

Ultimately, Leafs nation is still hanging on to their "This team is not tough at ALL!" hat. No, Leafs fans. The team is just not skilled and talented enough. "Truculence" is a great word, but does it have anything to do with passing? Stickhandling? Skating ability? Pounding your guy is no use if you can't get the puck out of the corner because of lousy puckhandling.

[YogiStewart]

Yogi -- why move this to the leafs board? Its as or more raptor related than 90% of the threads you start.

My thoughts exactly. But you know, he's gotta hit his quota... wait...

Its a joke.... If Yogi starts a thread that was about "what do you think each raptor's favourite flavour of freezee is?" it will stay open and in the raptors forum.

Someone compares Colangelo to Burke and it somehow gets moved out of hte raptors forum.

Funny.

yeah, it is funny.
please read the original post. more a comment on the Leafs than the Raptors.

keeping boards clean and in order, that's what mods do. sorry that I didn't consult with you and Koosh first.

[Marmoset]

Burke beleives in the top 6/bottom 6 theory.... the problem is our top 6 is not good enuff. In fact it is no where near good enough skill wise.... thats essentially the problem.

I was not a fan of the kessel trade, especially if we are out of the playoffs... and if its top 5 pick its bad. I know the argument of Kessel being 22 at all however, I dont think he will be hugely productive this year (a combination of his health, our remaining players, and when he comes back into the lineup we likely might be very very far behind).

Wouldn't it have been better to not make the trade now... keep the 2010 and 2011 picks. Use the 2010 pick to draft a player (presumably high). Resign our RFA we like. Sign UFA we may like. Then send our 2011 and 2012 picks to other team for a Young Gun. This essentially delays the "kessel-like aquistion" one year, where that player will enter into a MUCH stronger team.

I basically agree with everything you wrote. Even though some people would consider the Kessel trade to be part of 'rebuilding', to me it was yet another point in time that the Maple Leafs took a shortcut rather than rebuilding the team properly. The best case scenario for this team was to squeak into the playoffs - even Burke and Wilson seemed to admit that. Therefore it was likely they would miss the playoffs, with a chance of being very bad. They could have collected another top-5 pick (not to mention another 2nd rounder), and traded a couple veterans for picks/prospects at the deadline, and have that much of a stronger base for the future.

Instead, if the Leafs are out of it, "tanking" at the end of the year as they did last year will only serve to make the Bruins very happy. Burke came in preaching patience, but after only one year through it all out the window to try to get back in the playoffs quickly.

Now Colangelo has done some similar things in terms of making a big splash and trading draft picks. Honestly, I don't like the way BC tosses draft picks around either. But there are some differences:
1. Raptor picks are or have been lottery-protected.
2. The Raptors don't have the luxury of 19,000 fans in the building if the team loses for an extended period of time.
3. One or two star players often have a much larger impact in basketball compared to hockey, where more depth is needed.

What will show Burke's true ability to me is to see how he tries to fix his mistakes. Colangelo has made a few big mistakes in Toronto, but I think most people would agree he has done very well at admitting those mistakes and repairing them. We will have to see if Burke is able to do the same if this team goes down the tubes.

[The Duke]

If we were to try and "correct" the "mistake" .... what would it take to get back our 2010 pick from Boston.

Assumption - after 25% of the season, and we are still in the celler. Lets also make the assumption that Boston wants to "win-now"

I'm not against trying to move Kabrele (Great Vet - but only signed for 1 more year after this season, but @ a great price) to Boston for our 2010 pick + player

[Dr Positivity]

If we were to try and "correct" the "mistake" .... what would it take to get back our 2010 pick from Boston.

Assumption - after 25% of the season, and we are still in the celler. Lets also make the assumption that Boston wants to "win-now"

I'm not against trying to move Kabrele (Great Vet - but only signed for 1 more year after this season, but @ a great price) to Boston for our 2010 pick + player

I doubt wed have much to give... especially not now. Kaberle might get the 15th pick in this draft and nothing more... but a potential top 5 would take well, Phil Kessel

The 2011 pick for Kaberle is more fair, but Boston would never do it now. I think well get someone elses pick for him if we can