Will we lose Rondo next summer - money issues

[captain green]

captain green

You need to re read the information in your own post.

How many of those are contracts actually have an annual avg value of 10 mil or more?
7, there is also Nash who I did not see on your list.
Of the 7 how many were given to guys coming off of rookie contracts?
4
Of those 4 how many were not one of their teams top 2 scorers when they got their deal?
0
These 4 players include an MIP, a finals MVP, and 3 All NBA.

Of the other 4 players who were NBA veterans, all were All NBA, all primary offensive options (1 or 2 scorers), a former 2 time MVP, a MIP, and a Finals MVP.

Right now Rondo doesn't belong on this list, he is not a top 5 pg, I am not sure he is a top 10 pg, trust me I am not alone in this assessment the Vice President of the team agrees he has said as much. Enjoy his game, root for him, and when he improves his game you can all say how you knew he would do it, but stop overrating him.

to be honest I Looked for nash could not find his stuff. last year in stats he was 7th over all in point guards. his win score is third among point guards. It seems to me you undervalue what he is. Look if the stats, and numbers said he was horrible then I wouldn't back him(i'm a stats guy sorry you can't argue facts) at this point I'd say I'm over it in this arena. I can type till i'm blue in the face and some people can't handle him, oh the contract i'm thinking is 8,995 9,135 9,350 9,850 10,150 which would be a lil under his what he's earned compared to other point guards play. i'm out different freaking subject rondo rules i'm sorry if you don't like him..

[Hemingway]

Rondo is worth what ever it takes to keep him.Forget what other players are making, you have to look at what he means to the team. Yes he has flaws but he it top tier is passing, driving, D and rebounding. We arn't going to be able to get a guard half as good for a long time, it took us years to finally have a good pg.

Sure you can say, how good would he be with out the big 3? But we still have them! Even if we have to match at 12 and feel he is really worth 9, we do it because at the end of the day he helps our chances of a title now and down the line.

[sam_I_am]

How did Rondo do without the big 3 tonight?

18 pts, 13 assts, 9 rebounds.

Almost another triple double... and didn't even shoot that well.

If he had played without the big 3 his jumper would have been much farther along.

Playing with the Big 3, slowed his shooting development.

[Though it did help him learn to manage egos.]

He played a great game against a team of scrubs. There is no questioning his heart, his effort on the court, or his competitive fire. However, this is NBA preseason. In the real games against Orlando he was totally outplayed by Rafer Alston.

I love Rondo on this team - especially at 2 million dollars. His speed and quickness kills teams who organize their defense around stopping Ray Allen's outside shot and Pierce's offensive onslaught. If teams facing Boston made stopping Rondo priority #1 he wouldn't do a damn thing offensively.

If you go into regular season with a starting 5 of Rondo, Hudson, Davis, Scalabrine and JR..... I guarantee you teams like the Memphis Grizzlies will make Rondo look bad and make his 10 million dollar contract look like a worse mistake than Blount's contract.

[kmgarnett21]

I'm always amazed at some of the spelling of players' names by people on this board. Wow. When I see crappy spelling like that, the post loses all credibility to me.

[sully00]

to be honest I Looked for nash could not find his stuff. last year in stats he was 7th over all in point guards. his win score is third among point guards. It seems to me you undervalue what he is. Look if the stats, and numbers said he was horrible then I wouldn't back him(i'm a stats guy sorry you can't argue facts) at this point I'd say I'm over it in this arena. I can type till i'm blue in the face and some people can't handle him, oh the contract i'm thinking is 8,995 9,135 9,350 9,850 10,150 which would be a lil under his what he's earned compared to other point guards play. i'm out different freaking subject rondo rules i'm sorry if you don't like him..

It is pretty friggin sad if that is what you have gotten out of this thread.

Your not a stats guy, your a guy who likes stats that agree with your point even if they don't really say what you claim they do but can't face the stats and facts that disagree with your point. You want Rondo's 12/5/8 and 2 steals to have more value than they do.

This isn't about liking, loving or hating Rondo. I am simply trying to show what the guy's comparative value is based on his play and production.

If you can't handle people disagreeing or challenging your ideas why post them on a message board?

[DelMonte West]

I'm always amazed at some of the spelling of players' names by people on this board. Wow. When I see crappy spelling like that, the post loses all credibility to me.

It could be worse...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d31ZBYoOyBw

[Zin5]

Only team I could see offering Rondo a contract we would have no interest in matching is Sacramento. Yeah, they have Evans, but he's more likely a combo guard and Rondo would pair well with either of Evans or Martin in that backcourt. Other than that, worst case scenario is we're probably bringing him back at 12-13 million per year. I'd be pretty confident that Rondo will be around next year.

[Wolves2011]

to be honest I Looked for nash could not find his stuff. last year in stats he was 7th over all in point guards. his win score is third among point guards. It seems to me you undervalue what he is. Look if the stats, and numbers said he was horrible then I wouldn't back him(i'm a stats guy sorry you can't argue facts) at this point I'd say I'm over it in this arena. I can type till i'm blue in the face and some people can't handle him, oh the contract i'm thinking is 8,995 9,135 9,350 9,850 10,150 which would be a lil under his what he's earned compared to other point guards play. i'm out different freaking subject rondo rules i'm sorry if you don't like him..

It is pretty friggin sad if that is what you have gotten out of this thread.

Your not a stats guy, your a guy who likes stats that agree with your point even if they don't really say what you claim they do but can't face the stats and facts that disagree with your point. You want Rondo's 12/5/8 and 2 steals to have more value than they do.

This isn't about liking, loving or hating Rondo. I am simply trying to show what the guy's comparative value is based on his play and production.

If you can't handle people disagreeing or challenging your ideas why post them on a message board?

You undervalue what Rondo showed when it mattered, in the playoffs with KG injured.

When the Celtics needed him to step up his production rather than just be a facilitator.

First two rounds of the playoffs - per game averages rounded.

17 pts
10 assist
10 rebounds
2.5 steals

He was off by 0.2 assist/gm and 0.3 rebounds/gm for a triple double.

The roster of guys who has come close to a triple double in the playoffs is all superstars.

Wins Produced Last year in the regular season:
[from Wages of wins Journal]

Rondo 17.2
KG 11.6
Ray 10.6
Pierce 10.2
Perkins 5.0
Powe 4.8
House 4.7
T.A. 1.6
Pruitt 0.2
Giddens 0.1
Walker 0.0
O'Bryant minus 0.1
Moore minus 0.1
Marbury minus 1.1
Scalabrine minus 1.1
Davis minus 2.5

Total projected wins 61.1 --- actual team wins 62

Rondo contributed more than any other player on the team.

[sully00]

He also shot 43 eFG% doing it and was unable to do it with the series on the line. Glen Davis and Kendrick Perkins stepped up in KG's absence. Rondo was able to exploit a match up against a rookie in the first round and faded in the second round against the Magic.

Save the Wages of Wins stuff I don't care about it, it is not important, or relevant to the discussion. It is a point you have made it. Do you really believe Rajon Rondo was more valuable to the Boston Celtics last year than Paul Pierce?

No, Rondo did not contribute more than any other player on the team because you win by scoring the basketball, and as I have said about a hundred times a rebound is a rebound a steal is a steal it does not mean more because of the position the player plays. Rondo does a lot of things besides scoring the ball that contribute to winning games, so does Kendrick Perkins and they just don't happen to go into the Wages of Wins formula or traditional stats that are tracked.

Rondo is unique and different but it doesn't make him more valuable. I value Rondo as a top 10 pg and the 3rd or 4th best player on a contending team because that is who is.

[Wolves2011]

He also shot 43 eFG% doing it and was unable to do it with the series on the line. Glen Davis and Kendrick Perkins stepped up in KG's absence. Rondo was able to exploit a match up against a rookie in the first round and faded in the second round against the Magic.

Save the Wages of Wins stuff I don't care about it, it is not important, or relevant to the discussion. It is a point you have made it. Do you really believe Rajon Rondo was more valuable to the Boston Celtics last year than Paul Pierce?

No, Rondo did not contribute more than any other player on the team because you win by scoring the basketball, and as I have said about a hundred times a rebound is a rebound a steal is a steal it does not mean more because of the position the player plays. Rondo does a lot of things besides scoring the ball that contribute to winning games, so does Kendrick Perkins and they just don't happen to go into the Wages of Wins formula or traditional stats that are tracked.

Rondo is unique and different but it doesn't make him more valuable. I value Rondo as a top 10 pg and the 3rd or 4th best player on a contending team because that is who is.

You don't think Rondo played well against Orlando, given that his foot was hurt from about mid-March on?

Rondo's "BAD SERIES" was against the best defensive center in the NBA, when a big part of his game is going inside:

Howard is the best defender of the hoop in basketball today.

Boston didn't have the shooters hitting shots to spread the floor. Ray had a bad shooting series. So Rondo couldn't go to the hoop as easily as he can against most teams.

and he still had a series most good point guard would be proud of.....


VS Orlando in playoffs

Pt 14.3
Reb 10.1
Asst 6.6
Stl 2.3

Rondo was 3rd in the playoffs in assists averaging 9.8/gm. But even 6.6/gm which he averaged against Orlando would have been 8th and the three guys ahead of him averaged 6.7, 6.8, 6.8 - so he was close to 5th in assists against Orlando also.

Rondo had MORE rebounds against Orlando than against the Bulls. He averaged 10.1 per game which is GREAT for a PG. He averaged 9.8 in the playoffs overall.

Rondo was 2nd in steals in the playoffs at 2.5, but would have been 3rd at 2.3 per game which he averaged against the magic.

Rondo showed he is a superstar in the playoffs.

You will see once he leaves the Celtics next summer
[If Ainge doesn't sign him before the season begins.]

[Wolves2011]

By the way, I'll surprise you guys.

I'm not sure Rondo is a MAX. contract guy with the Celtics, based on the way they play.

As others have pointed out, the Celtics are NOT are running team.

They don't rely on a PG to run their offense and create for people.

The ball flows through everyone hands, it doesn't go from PG to shooter as it does for other teams with great passers.

I am saying, however that Rondo is a MAX contract guy for a team that

1) Wants to run!

2) Wants Rondo to be the focal point of their offense and create for teammates.

Rondo can do for someone what guys like Kidd have done in the past.

And if his jumper improves, he could be like a combination of Nash and Kidd.

Thats why I concerned about Ainge not valuing Rondo as much as other teams might.

That could mean to Rondo is gone.

We'll see what happens in the next couple of weeks and into next summer.

[GuyClinch]

There aren't many teams in the NBA willing to construct their game around Rondo's talent. Hell even his college team didn't utilize him to his fullest ability. Yes as for emulating Kidd - that's the way for him to get a big contract. Go to some cellar dweller young team and next season if they win 60 games he will get his max contract..

Of course I don't believe that would happen..

Pete

[Wolves2011]

There aren't many teams in the NBA willing to construct their game around Rondo's talent. Hell even his college team didn't utilize him to his fullest ability. Yes as for emulating Kidd - that's the way for him to get a big contract. Go to some cellar dweller young team and next season if they win 60 games he will get his max contract..

Of course I don't believe that would happen..

Pete

The Kicks or Heat offer him $12.5 million.

they will both be getting multiple Max players.

rondo will be one of them........

Then we'll see if Danny matches.

[Wish Ainge would give $10 million now]

[GuyClinch]

Good - if the Heat want to give him 12.5 million maybe we can package him for Dwayne Wade..

[Hemingway]

Again I disagree with Wolves notion that if Ainge doesn't resign him now he is gone.

Wolves, stop acting like you are some sort of prophet. No one knows what will happen down the road and I think the history of this board shows that everyone gets very annoyed with people who claim to have some sort of inside knowledge on the future.

I don't see Ainges actions right now as any indication on how much he values Rondo. Its all a numbers game. If he thinks that right now Rondo is off a tripple double playoff campaign and has national attention so maybe its not the best time to pay, how can you fault that. Why not take the risk that he can be had cheaper next summer? Its only a few mil either way and by waiting we retain the ability to trade him if a to good to be true deal comes along, or to get him much cheaper if he disappoints this year.

Its like if your in the woods with a group of friends and a bear attacks. You don't have to out run the bear to be safe, you just have to out run your friends. Danny just has to hope no other team will pay more next summer than Rondo is asking for this summer.

[tombattor]

I don't really want Rondo at any price, unless he learns to make jump shots. Because as long as he's on the Celtics, with the big 3, he'll be overrated and overvalued. We can't be saddled with his contract when he's not going to be anything more than a 3rd offensive option.

Our plan should be to let Rondo walk or trade him away and then try to get Eric Maynor. With D-Williams there, he'll be at most a backup and he's got all the things you look for in a PG. A good play maker who can create his own shot and play D.

[Wolves2011]

Again I disagree with Wolves notion that if Ainge doesn't resign him now he is gone.

Wolves, stop acting like you are some sort of prophet. No one knows what will happen down the road and I think the history of this board shows that everyone gets very annoyed with people who claim to have some sort of inside knowledge on the future.

.

I'm not acting like a prophet.

I'm trying to make logical inferences from the actions Ainge is making or not making.

Lets begin by saying, Ainge can still sign Rondo before the season begins.

But if Ainge doesn't sign Rondo, he is saying, Rondo wants more money than Ainge is willing to pay.

No argument there I hope. Ainge has already said he wants Rondo to play the rest of his career for the Celtics, the only issue is money.

Rondo said in late spring, early summer he'd sign for $10 million. If he is negotiating based on that premise, we know what Ainge has already turned down $10 million. [We are making assumptions, but they look realistic.]

And finally what is Rondo like to get offered next summer?

The Max he can be offered is in the $12.5 million range, if the salary cap drops to $50 million as the NBA forecast. [This is down from the Max. last year for a player leaving his rookie contact of $14.4 million which Chris Paul and Deron Williams got.]

Some on this board think he is worth only about $8 million to $10 million.

I happen to think he is worth more.

On another team Rondo is shooting more. He is behind 3 hall of famers here when shots are distributed. That doesn't happen on most other teams.

On another team, Rondo would be getting about 15 shots per game, rather than the 9.5 shots a game he had last year. He shoots 50%. If he had 15 shots/gm he would be averaging 18 pts and 12 plus assists for another team. [He gets more assists for another team, that plays a Chris Paul, Bob Nash, Jason Kidd type of offense, where the point guard has the ball in his hands much more often.]

18 pts and 12 plus assists, thats his stats playing somewhere else.

That deserves a Max contract.

His numbers are understated BECAUSE he plays with the Big 3.

Rondo is also the best PG defender in the NBA today, and one of the best defenders overall.
[Most PG don't even play defense, and Rondo is one of the best defenders in the NBA from that position.]

Smart GM's know this.
They have already voted him best on the ball defender and 4th best perimeter defender, so he is on their radar screens.

One of those GM's will offer him $12.5 million in my humble opinion.

But we'll just have to wait and see.

[Hemingway]

Again I disagree with Wolves notion that if Ainge doesn't resign him now he is gone.

Wolves, stop acting like you are some sort of prophet. No one knows what will happen down the road and I think the history of this board shows that everyone gets very annoyed with people who claim to have some sort of inside knowledge on the future.

.

I'm not acting like a prophet.

I'm trying to make logical inferences from the actions Ainge is making or not making.

Lets begin by saying, Ainge can still sign Rondo before the season begins.

But if Ainge doesn't sign Rondo, he is saying, Rondo wants more money than Ainge is willing to pay.

No argument there I hope. Ainge has already said he wants Rondo to play the rest of his career for the Celtics, the only issue is money.

That is exactly where my argument is. You are saying, if I understand correctly, if Ainge doesn' sign him before the season, he isn't going to pay him the money he wants and will likely get elsewhere. What I'm saying is that it probably has more to do with getting a good deal.

I think Rondo is worth the max, if thats what you have to pay to get him. Ideally you want to pay the least you have to for any player. I think that is what Ainge is trying to do. Right now he wants 10 (Who knows if that is exactly true) so the gamble is only 2 mil or so. Do you understand what I'm saying? Worst case is we have to match a max offer. It is just as likely if not more likely that he doesn't get a max offer or God forbid gets hurt or regresses.

I suspect he is asking for more than 10 mil. In any event Ainge is a master at buy low sell high. Right now Rondo's stock is at an all time high. If we win it all this year, his stock will not even be as high because KG will get a ton of credit for the win.

At the end of the day, I guess I trust Ainge's judgement. Every move he has made has turned out to be a good one so why dissagree with him on things we don't know the details of?

[Wolves2011]

Again I disagree with Wolves notion that if Ainge doesn't resign him now he is gone.

Wolves, stop acting like you are some sort of prophet. No one knows what will happen down the road and I think the history of this board shows that everyone gets very annoyed with people who claim to have some sort of inside knowledge on the future.

.

I'm not acting like a prophet.

I'm trying to make logical inferences from the actions Ainge is making or not making.

Lets begin by saying, Ainge can still sign Rondo before the season begins.

But if Ainge doesn't sign Rondo, he is saying, Rondo wants more money than Ainge is willing to pay.

No argument there I hope. Ainge has already said he wants Rondo to play the rest of his career for the Celtics, the only issue is money.

That is exactly where my argument is. You are saying, if I understand correctly, if Ainge doesn' sign him before the season, he isn't going to pay him the money he wants and will likely get elsewhere. What I'm saying is that it probably has more to do with getting a good deal.

I think Rondo is worth the max, if thats what you have to pay to get him. Ideally you want to pay the least you have to for any player. I think that is what Ainge is trying to do. Right now he wants 10 (Who knows if that is exactly true) so the gamble is only 2 mil or so. Do you understand what I'm saying? Worst case is we have to match a max offer. It is just as likely if not more likely that he doesn't get a max offer or God forbid gets hurt or regresses.

I suspect he is asking for more than 10 mil. In any event Ainge is a master at buy low sell high. Right now Rondo's stock is at an all time high. If we win it all this year, his stock will not even be as high because KG will get a ton of credit for the win.

At the end of the day, I guess I trust Ainge's judgement. Every move he has made has turned out to be a good one so why dissagree with him on things we don't know the details of?

Rondo said this spring, after the season ended, he would sign for $10 million. He said it to the Cornbread Maxwell the local radio announcer. So its someone credible.

So either Rondo lied to Maxwell, changed his mind from June till now, or Ainge won't offer him $10 million.

I'd guess, it was the latter.

Lots of Celtics fans on this site don't think Rondo is worth $10 million.

The Celtics don't get the full value from Rondo, that other teams might because they do have the Big 3 and because of the way Doc coaches.

Lots of people on this site have said, that you could put any "decent" PG out there with the Big 3 and win a championship [I don't think so, but they do.] Maybe Ainge believes that also.

Dont know.

But I'm fairly comfortable that $10 million will get a deal done for Rondo.

If we don't have a deal done, I'm guessing its because Ainge wants to pay less.

Keep in mind that Perk's contract is also up in 2011.

If he gives Rondo $10 million or more, how much will he have to give Perk?

Anyway, we'll see this fall and next summer.