Trade Idea with Golden State

hairybyrd · Post #1 » by **hairybyrd** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:38 pm

While I really like the structure of the team this year, DA is always looking to the future.

Rondo and Allen are free agents this summer and he attempted to trade both players last summer to DET for Rip, Prince, and Stuckey. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume he would trade one or both at some point during the season if an appealing trade came along. The difficulty for Ainge is predicting chemistry. Why mess with a good thing?

If the following trade proposal was offered at some point during the season would Ainge pull the trigger?

To BOS: Monta Ellis, Stephen Jackson OR Corey Maggette
To GS: Ray Allen

Celtics' reasoning: Value. While neither Ellis nor Jackson/Maggette is as good as Allen it's great overall value. Ellis and Rondo playing together would be nice to watch - easily the fastest backcourt in the league. The Celts could focus solely on re-signing Rondo while using Ellis' (6 year/$66M) contract as leverage. Ainge's fear is Rondo's camp demanding the max. With Ellis in the fold it will be tough for Rondo's agent to ask for more than $11M per season. I think DA would be OK with a 5 year/$55M deal. The downside is moving well beyond the luxury tax threshold with the expensive additions of Ellis and Jackson/Maggette.

Warriors' reasoning: Money. GS saves approximately $90 mil of guaranteed salary and gets the best player in the trade. Allen's veteran leadership would help the W's make a legitimate run at the playoffs. GS is selling the franchise so getting rid of lengthy contracts is now a priority. Ellis and Jackson have publicly stated they want out. Ainge values Maggette's talent and offered him a mid-level contract 2 years ago.

Prue · Post #2 » by **Prue** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:24 pm

No thanks... Ellis is a volume shooter and not much of a defender. Jackson would be great but only for a few years. Cory is a nice player but does not seem like a good fit on this team.

Al-Haqq · Post #3 » by **Al-Haqq** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:09 am

Please no MONTA!

Please.

GuyClinch · Post #4 » by **GuyClinch** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:17 am

That's some weird logic. We should take on a bad contract to force a guy to sign with us cheap?! Weird. If we get Monta then no Rondo. They play the same position - not only that but Monta is a chucker and not the passer or defender that Rondo is.

Listen man if we want to trade Rondo we should get a serviceable PG and a big or future stud swingman. The point of trading Rondo would be to not overpay at the PG spot - not to get an inferior PG with a awful contract back!

stiles21 · Post #5 » by **stiles21** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:43 am

Monta Ellis doesn't seem like a winner and he needs the ball in his hands to much for this team.Stick with Ray and see how it plays out. Try to win this year first then worry about the future.

captain green · Post #6 » by **captain green** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:18 am

well sir I don't like it, although there stat and price ratio are ok, they are nutty as all get out.
I pass but compelling

Captain_Caveman · Post #7 » by **Captain_Caveman** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:27 am

Other than the financial aspects of what that trade would mean for resigning Rondo, either version is a no-brainer.

Some thoughts on Monta from a guy who probably seen him play more than all of you combined:

Upside: To call Monta a volume shooter or a chucker is a bit less than accurate. He has a career shooting percentage of 48.8%, for goodness sake. Shot 53% from the field the year before last (his last healthy year). The guy has one of the best midrange games you are *ever* gonna see. Absolutely automatic from 18 feet, and he can get that shot any time he wants. He's a Top 10-20 scorer in this league when you get right down to it. Decent rebounder for his size, can pass the ball a bit too. Still very young as he does not turn 24 until next week.

Downside: Not a point guard. At all. Just doesn't see the floor, and not a good decision-maker in that regard. Not that great a ballhandler. Not that interested in defense. Probably couldn't spell "cat" if you spotted him the C and the A. He's also apparently a diva and he has 3 screws in his ankle that took just a bit of his explosiveness away. Not a great 3-point shooter, but that's not all bad.

I would take Jax over Maggette in that deal. Mags is a black hole and has some issues with multiple concussions. He also plays no defense and is more overpaid.

We all love Ray, but he's old and to be fair, his game is quickly getting pretty limited as well. He can no longer take anyone off the dribble and let's just say that he won't be making the All-Defensive team any time soon.

If money were no object, you trade him for Monta and Jax 10 out of 10, IMO.

SonicYouth34 · Post #8 » by **SonicYouth34** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:33 am

threrf23 · Post #9 » by **threrf23** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:11 am

Ray Allen has more years left in him than Stephen Jackson & Corey Maggette combined IMO.

Not that I would be opposed to trade ideas involving Ray for a younger guard, but still

balleramil · Post #10 » by **balleramil** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:52 am

jackson to boston would be great one of my favourite players on one of my favourite teams although i wouldnt want to lose ray but pp is my fav player how about perkins + filler lol and start sheed although jack wouldnt want a bench role most likely

SonicYouth34 · Post #11 » by **SonicYouth34** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:02 am

balleramil wrote:jackson to boston would be great one of my favourite players on one of my favourite teams although i wouldnt want to lose ray but pp is my fav player how about perkins + filler lol and start sheed although jack wouldnt want a bench role most likely

No way we trade Perk for that idiot. Perk is our only true center and guards Dwight Howard (any other centers as well) better than anyone else. Perk, IMO, is untouchable unless we get a superstar like Howard in return.

captain green · Post #12 » by **captain green** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:08 am

if we were trading ray, then I want kevin martin. something like
ray and tony allen giddens/walker for kevin martin beno and nocioni..it's about 24 mil a year till 2013 with a re structured pierce deal this would work.
rondo, beno ,hudson
martin, house, giddens/walker
truth, daniels, nocioni
kg ,big baby, scalabrine
perk, sheed, sheldon

I'D HATE SHIPPING RAY TO MENTO OR ANYWHERE THOUGH!!
lol trading perk!!

Post #13 » by **ParticleMan** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:09 pm

I think Ellis and Jack would be great additions (not so much Mags) but I think we can't break up our top-7 players at all this season. We have the best top 7 in the L imo. so if we can get Jack at a firesale rate (capspace and some prospects), fine, otherwise pass. and i don't think the warriors are going to firesale monta... they might with jackson but not monta.

SilverQuick · Post #14 » by **SilverQuick** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:26 pm

only player i woluld like to get from warriors is anthony morrow.
He could be our next Ray Allen. I like his game

Dogen · Post #15 » by **Dogen** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:55 pm

Arrgh!!! I'm conflicted about this, but all I'd be willing to part with is Scal/TA, and one of Walker/Giddens for Jackson. I don't really want Jackson here for multi years, but he can help us win this year. GS has made another huge blunder with him so the best they probably will get is a firesale deal, preferably as far away as possible (like Boston). I'm sure they could get a slightly better deal than this, but not much, so it's worth asking. Besides, he's another guy with a beef with Kobe now, so that's a good thing, IMO.

Sjax would probably be a good soldier for the first year or so, and by year three the Celtics would be trying to get rid of him, but I gotta admit it would make us VERY VERY deep and give the team a secondary unit with tremendous firepower.

Perk-KG-Pierce-Allen-Rondo
Sheed-Baby-Jackson-Daniels-House

Williams-Sweetney-Walker-Hudson

Dogen · Post #16 » by **Dogen** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:09 pm

Also, keeping Jackson off the Cavs in another motivator.

Hemingway · Post #17 » by **Hemingway** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:46 pm

While I do agree that we COULD trade Allen in the right deal, and while I wil freely admit I don't really know Monta's game; I don't like this trade at all.

One thing this got me thinking of is the prospect of trading Ray with the wink wink deal that he comes back in the summer. That could always be a possibility, though unlikely as Ray would probably not be happy about wasting one of his last good years on a crappy team.

Another option would be to trade Ray in a deal where someone cuts him and he comes back.

hairybyrd · Post #18 » by **hairybyrd** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:42 am

GuyClinch wrote:That's some weird logic. We should take on a bad contract to force a guy to sign with us cheap?! Weird. If we get Monta then no Rondo. They play the same position - not only that but Monta is a chucker and not the passer or defender that Rondo is.

Listen man if we want to trade Rondo we should get a serviceable PG and a big or future stud swingman. The point of trading Rondo would be to not overpay at the PG spot - not to get an inferior PG with a awful contract back!

The logic behind trading for Monta is adding young, proven talent @ a reasonable price. $11Mil/year for a 20ppg scorer, shooting a 50% clip from either guard spot is legitimate. His defense is weak but our team D is great overall. Ellis would be an improved defender in our system. Like I said in the initial post, Ellis and Rondo would make-up the fastest back court in the league. The Celtics would have four or five guards capable of handling the ball: Rondo, Daniels, Pierce, Ellis (and Jackson). The logic behind this trade is adding two very good players in exchange for the aging Ray Allen.

Under this scenario, money is secondary to the Celtics. I am hesitant to compare Ellis and Rondo because they are very different players, however, from a negotiation standpoint, Ellis' presence on the team would keep Rondo's camp in check. Of course Ainge wouldn't trade for Ellis solely to pressure Rondo but it provides him with two things: leverage in negotiations and an insurance policy if Rondo asks for too much money. Moreover, how is Ellis' contract "bad"? $11Million a year for a borderline All-Star is bad? I disagree. His contract is alright, not great, but alright. Anyway, money is still secondary. This trade is appealing on the value front.

As far as trading Rondo, I'm not sure what you're referring to. I only mentioned that Ainge attempted to trade him in the past. I didn't say he should trade Rondo now. He shouldn't. Allen, maybe.

hairybyrd · Post #19 » by **hairybyrd** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:05 am

threrf23 wrote:Ray Allen has more years left in him than Stephen Jackson & Corey Maggette combined IMO.

Ray Allen is 34.
Stephen Jackson is 31. Corey Maggette is 29.

Dogen · Post #20 » by **Dogen** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:04 am

Boy, this nutjob is very fortunate to be 6'8", healthy, strong and can hit the 3.

via wiretap:

"Jackson Claims To Have Been 'Scarred' By Warriors"

“I’ve been scarred a lot these last couple of weeks,” Jackson said. “I’ve been handled in a lot of ways that I didn’t expect to be handled. You can forgive, but you can’t forget. All this stuff is still going to be in my mind.

I can't believe he had to go through the trauma of being called 'Young Fella' by Kobe Bryant and then the added insult of his coach not having his back. Has any human being ever gone through this much abuse for a measly 9M and lived to tell the tale to Yahoo Sports? I think not. Jackson will be going through YEARS of therapy and even then it is no guarantee that all the therapy and medication will unearth and release the depths of what he has had to endure.

“At this point, I can’t see it, I can’t see it, I can’t see it, I can’t see it. At this point, I can’t see nothing that will change the way I feel right now.”

Even his vision is being affected apparently. Maybe Don Nelson threw some dust in his eyes. In any case, nothing will change the way he feels now until he says something completely the opposite in a few weeks. But that's gonna just be 'cause they've screwed with his head so much.

Jackson expressed his trade request during an event in New York on Aug. 28. He said he wanted to be dealt to Cleveland, New York or one of the three Texas teams.

New York, Cleveland, and all of Texas have the most excellent facilities to help victims heal from the effects of PTSD. Let's hope he ends up in one of those places. Boston might be a little too hard on a sensitive soul such as he.

“It wasn’t purposely said, but eventually it was going to be said,” Jackson said. “It was going to come out whether I went public with it or another way. It was going to be said sooner or later. I knew the fine was coming. I was willing to deal with that.

“I’m not saying it was premeditated. But at the same time, it was on my mind.”

Whatever he said, it wasn't said on purpose, but it was going to be said, so I guess he had to say it, (but not on purpose). In any case, it's important to remember in cases like these that the victim may be actually thinking a thought, but if said it doesn't count as premeditation. Thus as a result of the traumatic scarring, it is possible to have a thought without actually thinking it.

But how could anyone think straight with Kobe, Nelson, and an entire professional sports organization spending every waking moment trying to not have your back when you need it most?

Jackson will undoubtedly get some sort of medal of honor for his heroism under the very worst conditions a human can endure.