BaNT 1st round playoffs: TOP BRACKET - votes due 2day!

[dockingsched]

all participants can vote from now until monday night, midnight eastern.

jsut don't vote in your own matchup please.

[BlackIce]

Voting:

SnakeBites v 9. Teddy KGB

I really like the balance that SnakeBites has, and agree that Martin will get his even against a player with the defensive reputation that Bell has. The problem for Teddy is that Mo Williams and A.I are poor defensively and like Snake said that will put a lot of pressure on Bynum to clean up their messes and Butler to help out.

Bynum is probably one of the best equipped defenders to handle Gasol and outside of Gasol, Snake probably doesn’t have enough playing making on his team. Ideally you want Hinrich beside a ball dominant, playmaking SG like Joe Johnson or Kobe.

Teddy has great spacing on his team though it comes at the expense of defense. However it makes it hard to collapse on Dirk. I think Dirk has a big series, and Prince doesn’t have the size or weight to really hold Butler. Those are the main pluses for Teddy. Also Bynum is a post scorer and this really helps, as you have to play him honest and keep the 2nd big away from Dirk. A Haywood/Bynum combo is going to give Gasol all he can handle and more and helps the poorish perimeter defense.

This is tough Teddy has the better 1st and 2nd option in Dirk and Butler but Snake is much better defensively and more balanced.

I’d say say the benches’ are about even, this is very tough but I’ll go with,

Teddy in 7.

CellarDoor v John2jer

If this was a real team, Rose/Durant would be a damn good combo to build around, even at this stage of their careers it is quite a potent twosome. Rose is going to KILL Nelson/Calderon and cause a lot of problems for Duncan, who is going to have to help out a lot. I agree with Cellar on that point, but I this he isn’t giving Wallace enough credit, Wallace has a big strength advantage and I think that he will be able to keep Durant out of the post and greatly limit his driving game. Luckily for Cellar Durant is more of a shooter and he will be able to get his shots and points, off of that crazy range.

Odom is able to handle Smith he has the size and lateral quicks to do so and Duncan will take Perkins out of the game. The problem for John is that Duncan is going to have to clean up Nelson and Redd’s mistakes and Rose will easily get to the basket and he is a good finisher.
John got unlucky in this match-up Perkins is one of the only guys that can guard Duncan one on one, and Redd will be guarded by one of the best defenders at the position in Brewer. However Duncan is a great passer and has fantastic shooters around him. Odom’s versatile game really complements Duncan and Nelson is a good PG that has a huge size and strength disadvantage, but luckily for John Rose isn’t a good defender at this stage of his career.

Ultimately though, Cellar has one of the best defensive front-courts in the league and a huge advantage at PG, not to mention a top tier scorer in Durant.

I think John has a slightly better bench though its close, but I’ll go

Cellar in 7

Knicksfan v. 12. Miller4ever

Knicksfan has the best wing combo in the league and JJ/Iggy complements each other perfectly. JJ’s shooting will open up the floor for Iggy’s driving and the playmaking of Kidd/JJ/Iggy is ridicules. This is also a dominant rebounding team as well, with Lee at PF, Dally at C, and the wing combo. Iggy isn’t as good as Granger but he is a great defender and this really helps Knicksfan. The flaw to this team is front-court scorer, post scorer. Lee is a garbage man on offense with no real post game to speak of he gets his points off of rebounds and putbacks. This is fine; however Dally is the same type of offensive player as well. This will allow Lopez to roam the paint a bit which is a plus for Miller, though this changes when Charle V and Griffin are in the game.

Miller has an elite defensive team, and luckily for him I really think Lopez is the 2nd best center in the league. Westbrook is going to have his way with Kidd/Robinson, he is going to do whatever he wants. Granger has a tough time with Iggy on him however he will still get his and he has the advantage of having a C in Lopez that you have to pay attention to. Millsap will score easily on a poor defensive PF in Lee.

In then end Miller has a much better front-court, a worst wing rotation (granger in the best player on the floor but JJ is soooo much better then Ariza who has become overrated) and a better PG with a superior defense. This is probably the toughest matchup for me so far.
Knicksfan has a terrible defensive bench and his problem in the series wasn’t offense to begin with, so I’m going.


..pending. Not sure yet. Will decide by tomorrow.

Will do the other bracket tomorrow.

[bcortell]

Miller, what is your response to saying your team is just too young to win. You have talented guys, but a severe lack of experience, and I don't think that a team like that will have much success in a seven game serious vs. vets like Kidd, Joe Johnson, and a more experienced Iggy.

[Miller4ever]

My talent outweighs the inexperience. In terms of playoff experience, my opponent has David Lee and Nate Robinson playing significant minutes, Charlie Villanueva, Blake Griffin, and Al Thornton. The playoff experience in the rest of the players is pretty even with my experienced players. Trevor Ariza has one ring and two Finals appearances.

I also want to say that I drafted with the philosophy that big men win playoff series. It's a formula that ever since MJ left, the rest of the NBA has required the big men. A frontcourt advantage is better than a backcourt advantage. The Lakers just won it with D-Fish starting against a Magic team with Alston and an injured Jameer.

[CellarDoor]

FYI, I'm going to try and refrain from voting on my side of the bracket unless there's a close decision and I need to break a tie. Will get my votes in for the other bracket soon-ish though

[deNIEd]

I have my series mostly determined already, but I will wait til Sunday night before I post them (I will consider any final remarks)

[SamBone]

I have most of mine done also, 3 of the series are heading to Game 7 so I am waiting to see any last minute arguements.

Will post results on Monday evening

Ice vs Vintage

Snake vs KGB

Cellar vs J2J

Kinicksfan vs Miller

[dockingsched]

i'll probably put my votes up for this bracket in a bit. have some free time between football and angels/yankees. don't want to have to rush my votes tomorrow.

[Teddy KGB]

I can't get my votes up now cuz I'm going to bed real soon but I'll vote tomorrow some time

[dockingsched]

1. BlackIce v 16. Vintage
some pretty good back and forth with the matchups. this one was really tough. ultimately, i think blackice is selling brand's post game way too high. he has none, which leaves his team with none. may be if he had marion/brand of 4 yrs ago, but not at the present. its just very hard to overlook a roster that literally has zero post offense.

vote: Vintage36

8. SnakeBites v 9. Teddy KGB
another tough matchup. i really like snakebites' balance, though he lacks some real size up front. i think he'll have some serious trouble not being dominated by andrew bynum. teddy kgb's roster is a little different, with some obvious high points and some weaknesses. dirk would be the best player on the floor, but i think his performances against pau when he was in memphis were too prominent in teddy's write up. i'm also seeing a lack of play makers in teddy's backcourt. just a tough matchup for me to choose.

vote: Snakebites

------------------------------------

4. CellarDoor v 13. john2jer

to be determined. i feel like i know who has the better roster, and i know who has a very good write up and good matchups, gotta consolidate my thoughts.

5. knicksfan v. 12. Miller4ever

very good backcourt vs a terrible backcourt and a pretty good front court vs a terrible front court. gotta go with the front court, even though its really inexperienced. you just can't cv playing half your center minutes.

vote: Miller4ever

[dockingsched]

about 24 hrs left to get your vote in.

[SamBone]

my votes

Knicksfan vs Miller

very close matchup, it can=me down to the wire, but I think knicksfan's bench pulls it out

Knicksfan in 7

Cellar vs J2J

another great series, I think Duncan gets too beat up having to log too many minutes at C and runs out of gas.

Cellar in 7

Snake vs KGB

the 3rd straight great series in this bracket, but I think Caron and Dirk are just too much to handle

KGB in 7

Ice vs Vintage

this was the one lopsided matchup in my opinion, D.West playing out of position and not having a scoring SG really hurts Vintage in this matchup. His D is solid, but he just can not score enough points to win in this matchup. I scoring SG would have made this a much closer series

Ice in 5

[VintaGe36]

how is Marion at SF anymore "out of position" than David West at Small Forward?

If I was a fast breaking team, sure, having Marion would help, but my team is clearly a grind it out, team, based on defense, and when the Small Forward can't kill you (which is exactly the case with Marion) and was horrible from 3pt range last year, i don't see how it's the huge cripple you make it out to be.

[SamBone]

how is Marion at SF anymore "out of position" than David West at Small Forward?

If I was a fast breaking team, sure, having Marion would help, but my team is clearly a grind it out, team, based on defense, and when the Small Forward can't kill you (which is exactly the case with Marion) and was horrible from 3pt range last year, i don't see how it's the huge cripple you make it out to be.

well considering Marion plays SF in real life and West does not, that is what I base things on. nothing personally, D.West is one of my personal favorite players as a PF

personally I think if you had a SG , you could have used Battier/Hill at the 3 and West/Scola at PF you would have won both of those matchups.

But the way your rotation is set up, I think Ice win quickly. But that is only my opinion, I am only 1 vote. Good luck, maybe others will look at it differently

[BlackIce]

how is Marion at SF anymore "out of position" than David West at Small Forward?

If I was a fast breaking team, sure, having Marion would help, but my team is clearly a grind it out, team, based on defense, and when the Small Forward can't kill you (which is exactly the case with Marion) and was horrible from 3pt range last year, i don't see how it's the huge cripple you make it out to be.

oh man. So Marion is going to kill me from the SF spot now? You can't have it both ways Marion is clearly a better 3 point shooter then West and even if he wasn't Williams, Gordon,VC, and Okur are all good 3 point shooters with the later 3 better elite at it.

But ya Marion is going to kill me, while having Hill play 33 minutes with no real wing scoring won't kill you.

[VintaGe36]

how is Marion at SF anymore "out of position" than David West at Small Forward?

If I was a fast breaking team, sure, having Marion would help, but my team is clearly a grind it out, team, based on defense, and when the Small Forward can't kill you (which is exactly the case with Marion) and was horrible from 3pt range last year, i don't see how it's the huge cripple you make it out to be.

oh man. So Marion is going to kill me from the SF spot now? You can't have it both ways Marion is clearly a better 3 point shooter then West and even if he wasn't Williams, Gordon,VC, and Okur are all good 3 point shooters with the later 3 better elite at it.

I believe you completely missed my point.

My team is a grind it out defensive team, that much is clear.
Marion THRIVES in a fast paced offense, with a Point guard setting him, did you not already say that?
And history will tell you that defensive teams, especially in the playoffs, are much better at setting the tone and pace of a game, correct?
So Marion won't win this series for you, even if it's a mis-match,
and he won't be at 100% effectiveness, because it'll be a much slower pace
where his offensive shortcomings(creating for himself and other) won't be masked by fast break opportunities.
How can you make the claim that West will be my downfall in the series,
it's not like Marion own's PFs with his speed, what makes you think he can own a PF with his speed, just labeled a different position?
Of course Marion is a better 3pt shooter than West, that was never my point.
But can you not dispute he was terrible from 3pt range last year?

But ya Marion is going to kill me, while having Hill play 33 minutes with no real wing scoring won't kill you.

red herring much? I didn't even mention Hill.

[BlackIce]

You add that he needs a point guard setting him up, I have the best Pg in the game.

I didn't claim that West playing out of position would kill you, sambone did. I said have no scoring on the wings will kill you.

If you think that West has the lateral quicks to stay in front of Marion thats fine, we agree to disagree. I don't.

I mentioned Hill because he is the SF playing behind West, relevant to the series, maybe not to your post.

He doesn't need to create for himself with Carter/Williams and even Gordon to some extent all being able to create shots for him. He doesn't need to be in a fast-paced offense to be effective, and he will kill you off of fast break opportunities.

How are you going to space the floor with Battier being the only guy that can hit a 3 outside of Billups?

Also not sure bringing up "his offensive shortcomings(creating for himself and other)" when outside of Billups your whole team has that short coming.

[Miller4ever]

my votes

Knicksfan vs Miller

very close matchup, it can=me down to the wire, but I think knicksfan's bench pulls it out

Knicksfan in 7

I think that my bench is equal.

Nate = Sessions (scoring vs. distribution)
J-Rich > Rudy (Rudy is a better shooter)
Thornton << Harrington (Thornton shoots low percentages)
Griffin >= Landry (Griffin is unproven)
Villanueva = Gortat (At playing C, Gortat is better)

My opponent's bench cannot defend my bench.

My opponent's team is also full of good players on bad teams, with the exception of Johnson. Nate Robinson and David Lee don't have the defensive capability that my opponent claims. Watch Lee play, and you'll notice that he can't defend bigger, stronger players in the post. My opponent also claims that Nate will "bully" Westbrook with his strength. Westbrook will not be posting Nate up. Nate will be using his strength to fight through screens the whole game.

There's also Andre Iguodala, who's slightly overrated. He has as tendency to take tough pull-up J's, and if Granger's guarding him, then his efficiency will take a hit.

My opponent's players have less playoff experience. My players may have less impressive stats, but they at the very least just as talented as my opponent's team.

[VintaGe36]

Not sure on all of the match-ups,

but I am sure that Miller wins his series, in 4-5 games.

That's my vote.

[VintaGe36]

I didn't claim that West playing out of position would kill you, sambone did. I said have no scoring on the wings will kill you.

I'll take post scoring with little wing scoring over loaded wing scoring, with no post scoring, 10 times out of 10.

How are you going to space the floor with Battier being the only guy that can hit a 3 outside of Billups?

Pick and Rolls, screens, pick and pops, you act like 3pt shooting is the only way to provide spacing, when mid range jump shooting, though not as spaced out, is pretty damn effective too.