BaNT 1st round: BOTTOM BRACKET - 24hr extension to break tie

[SamBone]

Sambone v. Gremz

(Also, if Rondo's a top defensive player in the league-- as in top 5-- I'll eat my shoe.

well I believe I said he is one of the best in this game, considering he was 2nd team all defense in the nba and 4 of the 5 1st teamers are not in this game, Rondo gets bumped to 1st team which will mean he is one of the best defensive players in this game.

And yes, I used Ice's writeup for assistance to see what is needed, it was fun!

[CellarDoor]

Sambone v. Gremz

(Also, if Rondo's a top defensive player in the league-- as in top 5-- I'll eat my shoe.

well I believe I said he is one of the best in this game, considering he was 2nd team all defense in the nba and 4 of the 5 1st teamers are not in this game, Rondo gets bumped to 1st team which will mean he is one of the best defensive players in this game.

And yes, I used Ice's writeup for assistance to see what is needed, it was fun!

Yes, and Chris Paul was on the first team. If he's a top 5 defender in the NBA i'll eat my shoe and one of his. After a game.

[bcortell]

Which is it? If you want to do both, that means Miller and West are both going to be on the floor and if West is "shutting down Nash" then Miller will have to guard Ginobili or Jackson. Besides, Andre Miller has historically "torched" Nash to the tune of 14 points on 42% shooting, and I am fine with those numbers.

btw, Nash vs Delonte? Nash puts up 15/10 on 48% shooting. Can't see him stopping the pick and roll very effectively. Besides, with everything that's going on with him right now I'm not sure if he'd be a help or a detriment to the team.

As for Bogut, http://www.82games.com/0809/08MIL17.HTM

It's a decently big sample size to show that his -10.8 defensive point differential is not just a fluke. The guy makes a huge impact when he is out there defensively, and takes charges as well as any big man in the game. I have nothing against Okafor, I think he's a great defender as well, but there is not a big difference defensively between him and Bogut.

And the bad habits thing? I'm not "hoping" or "assuming" they will get better, I know they will get better because

A. Jackson is playing under Nash, one of the best leaders in the game. In GS he had no real coaching and no boundries. Here if he gets too trigger happy, Ginobili comes in to replace him until he gets his head on straight.

B. Even with all of Jackson's (Please Use More Appropriate Word) shots, he still shoots about as well as Hedo from the field. So what does that make Turk?

The only thing that point differential tells is that he had awful backups (Elson and Gadz).. I think anyone can see that.

Hedo and SJax don't shoot the same..

Here are their TS%:
Hedo Jackson
54.1 53.0
(The year before- 57.6 vs. 53.6. Career- 54.1 vs. 52.4)

Here are their 3P%:
35.6 33.8
(Previous year- 40.0 36.3. Career- 38.5 vs 34.1)

And yes, you are assuming they just get better..

42.9% is usually rounded to 43% (or you just keep it at 42.9 and let people round up themselves ). Also, since when is 15.5 ppg = 14ppg... oh that's right.. only when you do the rounding.

I also find it funny on how you compared Nash and West.. You simply looked at the stats there, without stating a couple things. 1. You are including games were Delonte played 5, 13.5, and 18.5 minutes vs Nash playing about 35 minutes in those games.

When you take those games out.. Nash avg. 14.4 ppg and Delonte avgerages 14.6 ppg (This is including a game where Delonte played 22 min vs Nash's 37.)

If you want to talk about getting historically torched, then let's talk about comparing Hedo and Thad Young.

Hedo- 20.7 ppg/ 6.4 apg/5.7 rpg on 49% from the field, including 55% from behind the arc
Thad- 12.1 ppg/ 0.7 apg/3.7 rpg on 41% from the field, including 25% from behind the arc

I think you're going to have to worry about stopping Hedo before you can start talking about anything else.

[vincecarter4pres]

These are mainly some tight matchups, I will be waiting till close to the deadline to vote I think.

[SamBone]

My votes

DCA$H vs Denied

Melo and Rip have a great series, but it isn't enough, Pietrus playing the 4 doesn't make much sence to me and I personally think at this point JO gets abused by Jefferson

DCash is 6

Hoffa vs VC4Pres

this series was heading for a blowout until Hoffa busted out the enterance music which somehow inspired his VC4's squad instead of his own players. KG had a monster series, but he couldn't match the overall TEAM that Hoffa built. End of the day, Hoffa just had too much firepower

Hoffa in 6

Poop vs BNess/Cortell

This was a great matchup that coach Cortell really defended, I wish my boy Ness would have spoken up a little, but that doesn't matter. The Bosh vs STAT matchup was great for the fans and both players produced. Turk did have a nice series against Thad, but thats it. Bogut gets the slight edge against the offensively challenged Meka so it comes down to the guard play, were I feal the duo of Nash and Capt Jack simply outplay Ray and Dre. At the end of the day I think the run and gun sytle of Poop prevails in the end

Poop in a 7th game double OT game winner hit by Nash.

[poopdamoop]

The only thing that point differential tells is that he had awful backups (Elson and Gadz).. I think anyone can see that.

Hedo and SJax don't shoot the same..

Here are their TS%:
Hedo Jackson
54.1 53.0
(The year before- 57.6 vs. 53.6. Career- 54.1 vs. 52.4)

Here are their 3P%:
35.6 33.8
(Previous year- 40.0 36.3. Career- 38.5 vs 34.1)

And yes, you are assuming they just get better..

42.9% is usually rounded to 43% (or you just keep it at 42.9 and let people round up themselves ). Also, since when is 15.5 ppg = 14ppg... oh that's right.. only when you do the rounding.

I also find it funny on how you compared Nash and West.. You simply looked at the stats there, without stating a couple things. 1. You are including games were Delonte played 5, 13.5, and 18.5 minutes vs Nash playing about 35 minutes in those games.

When you take those games out.. Nash avg. 14.4 ppg and Delonte avgerages 14.6 ppg (This is including a game where Delonte played 22 min vs Nash's 37.)

If you want to talk about getting historically torched, then let's talk about comparing Hedo and Thad Young.

Hedo- 20.7 ppg/ 6.4 apg/5.7 rpg on 49% from the field, including 55% from behind the arc
Thad- 12.1 ppg/ 0.7 apg/3.7 rpg on 41% from the field, including 25% from behind the arc

I think you're going to have to worry about stopping Hedo before you can start talking about anything else.

I only used Dre's numbers against Nash when Nash was in Phoenix, since that's the kind of system I'm going to run. He shot about 41.6% in those games.

And you're telling me 54.1 TS% isn't comparable to 53%? When one of them is from a guy who had the best center in the game taking defensive attention away from him? Come on, don't tell me you don't understand the different circumstances. Nash gets all his teammates easier shots, therefore it makes sense that Jackson would shoot better. It's not like he's being guarded by a shutdown defender anyway.

Delonte won't be getting that many minutes off the bench anyway, and if he guards Nash who is Miller going to guard? He will get destroyed if you put him on Jackson or Ginobili.

The only thing that tells you is he had bad backups? That's just stupid. Okafor's rating was half that good, and he had Diop and Nazr Mohammed as his backups. How is that any better than Elson/Gadz? You're really reaching here.

Nice job finding those Turk/Young stats btw. Did you happen to check how they did in the playoffs, when they were matched up against each other?

Turkoglu = 23/63 = 36.5%
Young = 31/69 = 45%

So yeah, I think I'll be fine putting Young on Turkoglu. When the games count most, Turk played horribly against him. Except this time, he won't have Dwight Howard to back him up.

You've done a nice job arguing for bness, but your team is outmatched here. My team is just too good offensively, and we have the defensive personell to handle your big guns. I don't see how you can win.

[bcortell]

I don't have any time right now to respond clearly, but a couple things:

Thad played PF in the playoffs, not SF. So my statement still stands. Hedo will kill Thad.

Like I said, we can let Jackson jack up 3's and be fine. Delonte also comes in as Miller's backup, so they won't always be on the floor together.

I didn't say backups; I said awful backups. People would take Diop and Nazr over Gadz and Elson 10/10 times.

I will try to get to more later, but I have to do some work.

[poopdamoop]

I don't have any time right now to respond clearly, but a couple things:

Thad played PF in the playoffs, not SF. So my statement still stands. Hedo will kill Thad.

Thad also played PF in the regular season too. Elton Brand was only healthy in two of the games between Orlando and Philadelphia. In those two games, Hedo and Thad were matched up and Hedo shot 4/11 and 8/20. Hedo will not kill Thad. You can't have it both ways here.

Like I said, we can let Jackson jack up 3's and be fine. Delonte also comes in as Miller's backup, so they won't always be on the floor together.

That's your final plan? Let Jackson chuck up 3s? The ball will be in Nash's hands most of the game, and I also have Ginobili and Stoudemire as options I'll go to over Jackson. You're screwed if that's your final plan. No matter who Delonte plays with, you still have only one good perimeter defender, whereas I have two.

I didn't say backups; I said awful backups. People would take Diop and Nazr over Gadz and Elson 10/10 times.

There's really no difference between those two sets of players, don't kid yourself. A slight difference in quality of backups doesn't change the fact that Bogut's defensive rating was better than Okafor's when both of them were on the court. Bogut's was around 101, while Oak's was about 105. This has nothing to do with backups, Bogut's rating was flat out better.

[dockingsched]

to say that i am shocked that deNIEd got a vote for his write up that has a mutilated lineup where JO is going to dominate me in the paint is an understatement.

[deNIEd]

DCA$H vs Denied

Melo and Rip have a great series, but it isn't enough, Pietrus playing the 4 doesn't make much sence to me and I personally think at this point JO gets abused by Jefferson
DCash is 6

Pietrus isn't playing the 4.

On offense Pietrus is playing SF, on defense Pietrus is helping out on Harris.

Melo is playing the 4 on both offense and defense whenever its the starting line up that Cash has posted. Melo has both the defensive and offensive advantage against Lewis and Posey.


JO is the only weak link in the entire lineup, however, Jefferson alone (is he even healthy) isn't enough to account for the fact that 4/5 matchups I have an advantage or nullify his ability.

[SamBone]

DCA$H vs Denied

Melo and Rip have a great series, but it isn't enough, Pietrus playing the 4 doesn't make much sence to me and I personally think at this point JO gets abused by Jefferson
DCash is 6

Pietrus isn't playing the 4.

On offense Pietrus is playing SF, on defense Pietrus is helping out on Harris.

Melo is playing the 4 on both offense and defense whenever its the starting line up that Cash has posted. Melo has both the defensive and offensive advantage against Lewis and Posey.


JO is the only weak link in the entire lineup, however, Jefferson alone (is he even healthy) isn't enough to account for the fact that 4/5 matchups I have an advantage or nullify his ability.

guess this confused me a little

Pietrus vs Lewis
This was a matchup that the Homers did not expect. Pietrus is simply too fast for Lewis to guard. While Lewis has the height advantage, their strength is similar.

[deNIEd]

And again, that is only when Jefferson is playing the 5.

When Homers bring in Pryz or any other big, Melo would be shifted over to his natural SF position and Aldridge subs in along with Camby. In which Aldridge would guard Jefferson.

In the six loses Jefferson has had against Aldridge (all 6 matchups ever), Jefferson has the advantage of 23.7 pts on 53% FG opposed to 19 pts on 51% FG. However, the difference doesn't make or break a series.

Yes Jefferson has an advantage against Aldridge, O'Neal, and Camby, but it's a minimal one. One that can be contained to 4-8 pts or so.

However, the scoring production of Melo, Hamilton, and Davis is far too great.

Recent Harris vs Davis matchups
3/15/19
Harris - 13 pts, 1 reb, 4 ast, 3 TO
Davis - 20 pts, 6 reb, 10 ast, 1 TO

11/22/08
Harris - 18 pts, 2 reb, 10 ast, 1 TO
Davis - 30 pts, 2 reb, 10 ast, 1 TO

1/2/08
Harris - 17 pts, 3 reb, 5 ast, 2 TO
Davis - 10 pts, 2 reb, 6 ast, 3 TO

11/8/07
Harris - 21 pts, 5 reb, 7 ast, 4 TO
Davis - 37 pts, 5 reb, 5 ast, 2 TO

Need I continue?

[deNIEd]

guess this confused me a little

Pietrus vs Lewis
This was a matchup that the Homers did not expect. Pietrus is simply too fast for Lewis to guard. While Lewis has the height advantage, their strength is similar.

Sorry. Please reconsider

Homers said they would put Posey on Melo, which is what we expected since Posey is a much better defender.

Melo will be playing PF, with Posey guarding him, meaning Lewis would likely be guarding Pietrus, 2 mismatches in our favor. Both Melo and Pietrus have strength and speed advantages. If Homers are dumb enough to put Lewis on Melo, well, it's game over

[dockingsched]

baron davis shot 42% in the preseason, shot 37% last yr, and shoots 41% for his career, this is a guy thats going to torch me?

you have ZERO post scorers despite your claim that JO is going to somehow score inside. zero post scoring + relying on a super inefficient pg to score on me = absolute disaster. and pietrus shot 41% last yr for 9 ppg, you just don't care about efficient scoring.

[poopdamoop]

Voting for Cash, Sambone, and VC4P, explanations to come later.

[BlackIce]

I've got vcforprez, dcash, sambone, poopdamoop, will get my reasoning up 2morrow don't have the time right now.

Great efforts by denied and bcornell btw. You guys made it very hard for me.

[dockingsched]

get your votes in by 11pm pacific / 2 am eastern. i'll be going to bed pretty soon after that and want to tally up the votes. you can just post votes and list reasoning later like some have done.

[knicksfan3232]

voting for Denied, Sambone, Bness and VC4P

[vincecarter4pres]

I'm voting for:
DCash
PoopdaMoop
Gremz

My votes took a lot of reading and delibirating, so in the end I went with my gut and all the info I could absorb.
Man, I didn't know voting would be so much work, lol.

[deNIEd]

baron davis shot 42% in the preseason, shot 37% last yr, and shoots 41% for his career, this is a guy thats going to torch me?

you have ZERO post scorers despite your claim that JO is going to somehow score inside. zero post scoring + relying on a super inefficient pg to score on me = absolute disaster. and pietrus shot 41% last yr for 9 ppg, you just don't care about efficient scoring.

Baron Davis is also a player that shoots 49% FG posting up...something that he has done every game against Harris and is the reason every single game he wins against Harris.

You focus too much on FG% mainly because the player's roles on their actual teams will be totally different from what they are here. Why do you fail to mention Harris' 43% FG shooting. Davis isn't asked to shoot on this team, Melo, and Hamilton have that covered, instead Davis is asked to post up Harris all day long. Something that Harris has NEVER been able to deal with in his entire career.

You talk about your team shooting 3's similar to Orlando, however,
-Harris shot 29% from the 3 last year
-Salmons is a 36% career shooter from the 3
-Posey is a 35% shooter from the 3
Not exactly Orlando material.


Cash has also failed to mention what
-Harris is going to do about Davis' post game
-What Salmons is going to do with Hamilton
-What Posey is going to do with Carmelo (and the fact that Posey's teams lose 73% of the time matched up against Melo, despite being on superior teams)
-How on earth Lewis will be quick enough to guard Pietrus.
-Who will be guarding Aldridge once he comes off the bench
-Who will be guarding Deng off the bench