Knicks Core vs. Nets Core

[Hallstar]

This is probably the only place on the internet this is an argument

The Nets are arguably set @ PG, SG(although I'm not a HUGE Lee fan) and C. Knicks can't make that claim @ ANY position.

[WadeKnicks2010]

Player wise, NJ easily. New York for everything else.

[legoli]

Player wise, NJ easily. New York for everything else.

While true today , it can change over the next 6months. If Gallinari has a 14point/5rebound/3assist type of season with a lot of promise and Chandler shows he can be a 18/6 player then I believe it will be almost even.

[K_ick_God]

Player wise, NJ easily. New York for everything else.

The myth continues. The Nets don't have any kind of great nucleus and they don't have anyone who could be a secondary scorer, the talents that Gallo brings to the table. I'm not even sure if I'd take Courtney Lee over Wilson and I'd pass on Devin altogether.

Where are these very talented young players the Nets are hiding from us all?

[TKF]

Player wise, NJ easily. New York for everything else.

The myth continues. The Nets don't have any kind of great nucleus and they don't have anyone who could be a secondary scorer, the talents that Gallo brings to the table. I'm not even sure if I'd take Courtney Lee over Wilson and I'd pass on Devin altogether.

Where are these very talented young players the Nets are hiding from us all?

it sure does...

[TKF]

Bogut has been a tad bit awful IMO and somewhat injury prone. #1 picks have to pan out and be damn near for sure things. The Bucks I think have missed the playoffs more than they have made since drafting him that should tell you all you need to know about how underwhelming he's been. He's a decent big but that's about it. He is a starter, can have a good to great game out of every 10, and be mediocre the rest of the time.

I am not sure about injury prone, but I do know he missed most of last year with a bad back. the prior year he played 76 games I think and had some nice numbers. He has a high basketball IQ, is a more fluid athlete and one of the better passing bigs in the league... I think his game has some room to grow, I would not sleep on this guy at all.....

[TheBluest]

Bogut has been a tad bit awful IMO and somewhat injury prone. #1 picks have to pan out and be damn near for sure things. The Bucks I think have missed the playoffs more than they have made since drafting him that should tell you all you need to know about how underwhelming he's been. He's a decent big but that's about it. He is a starter, can have a good to great game out of every 10, and be mediocre the rest of the time.

I am not sure about injury prone, but I do know he missed most of last year with a bad back. the prior year he played 76 games I think and had some nice numbers. He has a high basketball IQ, is a more fluid athlete and one of the better passing bigs in the league... I think his game has some room to grow, I would not sleep on this guy at all.....

He's played 4 seasons and has missed a total of 66gms. Not exactly a bill of health here. He missed 46gms last yr and a yr before the previous missed 16gms. His IQ is pretty good and he can pass he may have room to grow much like Brook huh???? Bogut was pick 1 you know like Oden Brook was pick 10 or does this not apply to the discussion?

I bet in 3 more yrs Brooks numbers look better than Bogut's now

[King Wing]

Bucks fan that live in NY here. WARNING: I'm about to write more about Andrew Bogut than any of you probably care to know (no homo though).

It's tough to compare Bogut's first year with Lopez's because Bogut played PF his first year with the Bucks. Jamaal Magloire was the C (2 years after he was an all-star). After a somewhat disappointing second year, Bogut finally made "the leap," relatively speaking, in his third year.

The biggest change was his defense. He has become a bonafide anchor for the Buck's defense. Even though you won't see him block 4-5 shots a game, he gets a lot of alters -new stat?-, is a league leader in taking charges, and is always in position. This is where his value comes from, and he is very underrated in this regard. He's also a prolific rebounder, and the Buck's defense and rebounding literally falls apart when he's not on the court. Last year, they went from a top 10 defensive team with him to a middle of pack defensive team without him. This is why most Buck's fans consider him to be the best player on the team.

Offense is a different story. He is a Shaq-like free throw shooter, and he rarely takes jumpers, even when he's wide open. This is kind of baffling, because in the 2008 Olympics he was draining threes for Australia, and he also had a pretty solid jumper in college. He's also somewhat of a weak finisher at times. He's never going to be a true go-to scorer, but he is a guy who can can be effective with the ball in his hands because of his passing.

He's not going to be a franchise player, but you can get by with him being your best big man. I think he could be an all-star this year, because (I am a homer) but also, lost in the injury of last season, he was looking dominant in a lot of games.

[j4remi]

Bogut has been a tad bit awful IMO and somewhat injury prone. #1 picks have to pan out and be damn near for sure things. The Bucks I think have missed the playoffs more than they have made since drafting him that should tell you all you need to know about how underwhelming he's been. He's a decent big but that's about it. He is a starter, can have a good to great game out of every 10, and be mediocre the rest of the time.

I am not sure about injury prone, but I do know he missed most of last year with a bad back. the prior year he played 76 games I think and had some nice numbers. He has a high basketball IQ, is a more fluid athlete and one of the better passing bigs in the league... I think his game has some room to grow, I would not sleep on this guy at all.....

He's played 4 seasons and has missed a total of 66gms. Not exactly a bill of health here. He missed 46gms last yr and a yr before the previous missed 16gms. His IQ is pretty good and he can pass he may have room to grow much like Brook huh???? Bogut was pick 1 you know like Oden Brook was pick 10 or does this not apply to the discussion?

I bet in 3 more yrs Brooks numbers look better than Bogut's now

Brook and Bogut would battle for number 1 in that draft. I agree though, Brook will probably be the better player although I'm not sure they won't put up similar numbers. Bogut coming into this season was actually looking like he'd begin to turn a corner.

[TKF]

Bucks fan that live in NY here. WARNING: I'm about to write more about Andrew Bogut than any of you probably care to know (no homo though).

It's tough to compare Bogut's first year with Lopez's because Bogut played PF his first year with the Bucks. Jamaal Magloire was the C (2 years after he was an all-star). After a somewhat disappointing second year, Bogut finally made "the leap," relatively speaking, in his third year.

The biggest change was his defense. He has become a bonafide anchor for the Buck's defense. Even though you won't see him block 4-5 shots a game, he gets a lot of alters -new stat?-, is a league leader in taking charges, and is always in position. This is where his value comes from, and he is very underrated in this regard. He's also a prolific rebounder, and the Buck's defense and rebounding literally falls apart when he's not on the court. Last year, they went from a top 10 defensive team with him to a middle of pack defensive team without him. This is why most Buck's fans consider him to be the best player on the team.

Offense is a different story. He is a Shaq-like free throw shooter, and he rarely takes jumpers, even when he's wide open. This is kind of baffling, because in the 2008 Olympics he was draining threes for Australia, and he also had a pretty solid jumper in college. He's also somewhat of a weak finisher at times. He's never going to be a true go-to scorer, but he is a guy who can can be effective with the ball in his hands because of his passing.

He's not going to be a franchise player, but you can get by with him being your best big man. I think he could be an all-star this year, because (I am a homer) but also, lost in the injury of last season, he was looking dominant in a lot of games.

Honestly, I am also confused by his lack of shooting on the pro level. In the olympics and in college he was draining that shot.. Maybe it is a confidence thing.But if he gets that shot falling, he is going to be very tough..

[King Wing]

Bucks fan that live in NY here. WARNING: I'm about to write more about Andrew Bogut than any of you probably care to know (no homo though).

It's tough to compare Bogut's first year with Lopez's because Bogut played PF his first year with the Bucks. Jamaal Magloire was the C (2 years after he was an all-star). After a somewhat disappointing second year, Bogut finally made "the leap," relatively speaking, in his third year.

The biggest change was his defense. He has become a bonafide anchor for the Buck's defense. Even though you won't see him block 4-5 shots a game, he gets a lot of alters -new stat?-, is a league leader in taking charges, and is always in position. This is where his value comes from, and he is very underrated in this regard. He's also a prolific rebounder, and the Buck's defense and rebounding literally falls apart when he's not on the court. Last year, they went from a top 10 defensive team with him to a middle of pack defensive team without him. This is why most Buck's fans consider him to be the best player on the team.

Offense is a different story. He is a Shaq-like free throw shooter, and he rarely takes jumpers, even when he's wide open. This is kind of baffling, because in the 2008 Olympics he was draining threes for Australia, and he also had a pretty solid jumper in college. He's also somewhat of a weak finisher at times. He's never going to be a true go-to scorer, but he is a guy who can can be effective with the ball in his hands because of his passing.

He's not going to be a franchise player, but you can get by with him being your best big man. I think he could be an all-star this year, because (I am a homer) but also, lost in the injury of last season, he was looking dominant in a lot of games.

Honestly, I am also confused by his lack of shooting on the pro level. In the olympics and in college he was draining that shot.. Maybe it is a confidence thing.But if he gets that shot falling, he is going to be very tough..

There's been a lot of debate about it on the Bucks board, but it still remains a total mystery. It could a confidence thing, or it might be a "there are better shots to be taken" thing. Every year since Bogut entered the league the Bucks have had guys who can score. This year is an exception though, so it'll be interesting to see what happens. The fact that he's proven he can hit in the past makes it all the more maddening. If he hits that shot, he's an all-star.

[TKF]

He's played 4 seasons and has missed a total of 66gms. Not exactly a bill of health here. He missed 46gms last yr and a yr before the previous missed 16gms. His IQ is pretty good and he can pass he may have room to grow much like Brook huh???? Bogut was pick 1 you know like Oden Brook was pick 10 or does this not apply to the discussion?

I bet in 3 more yrs Brooks numbers look better than Bogut's now

well he just missed roughly 20% of the games. I wouldn't call that injury prone since most of that came in one season. Is blake griffin injury prone? espeically since he is going to miss roughly 20% of his games this year?

His IQ is pretty good and he can pass he may have room to grow much like Brook huh???? Bogut was pick 1 you know like Oden Brook was pick 10 or does this not apply to the discussion?

I don't see where it applies. Although oden and bogut I think have higher ceilings. I still have my reservations with oden... bogut was the #1 pick due to lack of big man talent.... Oden was the #1 pick because he was looked upon as a once in a generation type talent.. different stories here, so I really don't know where you are headed with this... I do feel that most Gm's see guys like bogut and oden as having more "potential" than guys like lopez..

I bet in 3 more yrs Brooks numbers look better than Bogut's now

And I bet in 3 years boguts's numbers will look better than his numbers do now as well? So are you going to tell me in 6 years lopez numbers will look better than boguts numbers 3 years later. or that 15 years from now lopez numbers will look better than boguts numbers do after 18 years for bogut... I mean you want to run this thing 100 years or more? I just don't get comments like that.. unless you can predict where bogut wll be by then as well... 3 years from now if bogut is averaging 18/12, will it matter than lopez averaged more in his 4th year than bogut? especially if bogut is clearly the better player? or do you believe that lopez stats will grow exponentially,so in 6 years he will be averaging 40/20? come on man!

[TKF]

Bucks fan that live in NY here. WARNING: I'm about to write more about Andrew Bogut than any of you probably care to know (no homo though).

It's tough to compare Bogut's first year with Lopez's because Bogut played PF his first year with the Bucks. Jamaal Magloire was the C (2 years after he was an all-star). After a somewhat disappointing second year, Bogut finally made "the leap," relatively speaking, in his third year.

The biggest change was his defense. He has become a bonafide anchor for the Buck's defense. Even though you won't see him block 4-5 shots a game, he gets a lot of alters -new stat?-, is a league leader in taking charges, and is always in position. This is where his value comes from, and he is very underrated in this regard. He's also a prolific rebounder, and the Buck's defense and rebounding literally falls apart when he's not on the court. Last year, they went from a top 10 defensive team with him to a middle of pack defensive team without him. This is why most Buck's fans consider him to be the best player on the team.

Offense is a different story. He is a Shaq-like free throw shooter, and he rarely takes jumpers, even when he's wide open. This is kind of baffling, because in the 2008 Olympics he was draining threes for Australia, and he also had a pretty solid jumper in college. He's also somewhat of a weak finisher at times. He's never going to be a true go-to scorer, but he is a guy who can can be effective with the ball in his hands because of his passing.

He's not going to be a franchise player, but you can get by with him being your best big man. I think he could be an all-star this year, because (I am a homer) but also, lost in the injury of last season, he was looking dominant in a lot of games.

Honestly, I am also confused by his lack of shooting on the pro level. In the olympics and in college he was draining that shot.. Maybe it is a confidence thing.But if he gets that shot falling, he is going to be very tough..

There's been a lot of debate about it on the Bucks board, but it still remains a total mystery. It could a confidence thing, or it might be a "there are better shots to be taken" thing. Every year since Bogut entered the league the Bucks have had guys who can score. This year is an exception though, so it'll be interesting to see what happens. The fact that he's proven he can hit in the past makes it all the more maddening. If he hits that shot, he's an all-star.

without a doubt....

[TheBluest]

^^^^
TKF I'm speaking in general terms of yrs in the league and comparing their yrs of progression. Yes I think Brook will be a better Center than Bogut after you compare their yrs in the league. Bottom line Brook has just as much improvement ceiling as Bogut.

Oh and as of the RIGHT NOW Griffin is injury prone

[j4remi]

^^^^
TKF I'm speaking in general terms of yrs in the league and comparing their yrs of progression. Yes I think Brook will be a better Center than Bogut after you compare their yrs in the league. Bottom line Brook has just as much improvement ceiling as Bogut.

Oh and as of the RIGHT NOW Griffin is injury prone

I think Bogut's offensive ceiling is higher and Brook's defensive ceiling is higher. Brook needs to get on the glass and pump out 10 a game this year too. Bogut should be a double double guy this year.

[King Wing]

He's played 4 seasons and has missed a total of 66gms. Not exactly a bill of health here. He missed 46gms last yr and a yr before the previous missed 16gms.

He wasn't actually hurt then, the Bucks were trying to tank.

[TKF]

^^^^
TKF I'm speaking in general terms of yrs in the league and comparing their yrs of progression. Yes I think Brook will be a better Center than Bogut after you compare their yrs in the league. Bottom line Brook has just as much improvement ceiling as Bogut.

Oh and as of the RIGHT NOW Griffin is injury prone

IT is funny how no one gave nate the benefit of the doubt when it came to comparing players and years of progression, but really what does that mean bluest.. are you telling me that in three years if lopez is averaging numbers than bogut did in his 4th year, then he is projected to be better? my question is, what if bogut in 3 years is putting up 18/12? what does that mean? does that mean lopez has the same ceiling? if so, then we better max out david lee... right?

[King Wing]

I think Bogut's offensive ceiling is higher and Brook's defensive ceiling is higher. Brook needs to get on the glass and pump out 10 a game this year too. Bogut should be a double double guy this year.

I think it's just the opposite, but I'll admit I haven't watched Lopez play very much. Their offensive styles are very different from what I've seen and are hard to compare. Brook has a better touch around the basket and is a better finisher, while Bogut is the better passer and facilitator.

Edit: Bogut also can't shoot FT's, Lopez can.

[j4remi]

I think Bogut's offensive ceiling is higher and Brook's defensive ceiling is higher. Brook needs to get on the glass and pump out 10 a game this year too. Bogut should be a double double guy this year.

I think it's just the opposite, but I'll admit I haven't watched Lopez play very much. Their offensive styles are very different from what I've seen and are hard to compare. Brook has a better touch around the basket and is a better finisher, while Bogut is the better passer and facilitator.

Edit: Bogut also can't shoot FT's, Lopez can.

I'm saying in terms of Bogut's shooting coming around. Plus I value a passing C more than anything.

[TheBluest]

^^^^
TKF I'm speaking in general terms of yrs in the league and comparing their yrs of progression. Yes I think Brook will be a better Center than Bogut after you compare their yrs in the league. Bottom line Brook has just as much improvement ceiling as Bogut.

Oh and as of the RIGHT NOW Griffin is injury prone

IT is funny how no one gave nate the benefit of the doubt when it came to comparing players and years of progression, but really what does that mean bluest.. are you telling me that in three years if lopez is averaging numbers than bogut did in his 4th year, then he is projected to be better? my question is, what if bogut in 3 years is putting up 18/12? what does that mean? does that mean lopez has the same ceiling? if so, then we better max out david lee... right?

Not sure where their numbers will be when it's all said and done but I've been saying forever Lee was %yrs/55-60mil market worth and yes Lee needs to be paid as if he's on tier production wise as other 4's, otherwise where's the basis/consistency for argument here.

Now would I pay Lee that coin. I'm not sure and it's probably has to do with the imbalance of our team whereas maybe more prone to pay a player like Brook because of their team structure.

With Nate it's more about his Maturity, Approach To The Game, Team Play, Unslefishness, IQ not necessarily about his production.