Lakers vs. Boston: Lakers superior roster is a myth

[sam_I_am]

This is my ranking of the players on both squads. I don't think the gulf between Kobe and Paul is as great as most pundits and fans widely assume but come finals time Pierce may show more sign of age. Kobe to me is like Wayne Gretsky - easily the most skilled player in the league but not the most physicially dominant. Garnett could leap ahead of Pierce if he returns to full health. Gasol is a distant 4th compared to those 3.

Is Rondo ranked too low? Is Bynum also ranked too low? The season will answer those questions. Does Artest at age 28 deserve to be higher than the aging Wallace and Allen - I think not but it is debateable. LA fans think Odom is Scottie Pippin but I think there are too many games won or lost without him being a factor. He is a difference maker when he is on ... but he was on 1 out of 6 games against us in the finals in 2008.

It is amazing when you look closely at Lakers roster how weak it is after top 6. Why does everybody rank them so highly above the Magic and Celtics who are clearly deeper? I would even argue that Howard/Carter/Lewis/Nelson is as good as LA's top 4 this year with a much deeper bench.

I think we can and will quibble about the order on this list. But I still think of the best 14 players among both rosters, 9 of them are Celtics.


1. Kobe
2. Pierce
3. Garnett
4. Gasol
5. Allen
6. Wallace
7. Odom
8. Artest
9. Rondo
10. Bynum
11. Daniels
12. Perkins
13. Davis
14. House
15. Fisher
16. Walton
17. Vucavic
18. Brown
19. Farmar
20. S. Williams

[Hemingway]

If it were a cross country race, Kobe would win but a pack of PP, KG, RA, Rondo and possibly Sheed would finish before Gasol. Pierce isn't that far below Kobe, and one of the areas he is a step blow, explosive scoring is hidden by having so many stars on the team.

[Triple M]

Pierce is able to match Kobe in clutch situations that is what makes it closer then many people think. Pierce in the last few mins of games is as deadly as they come. He has the ability to make a play for him self or others from any spot on the court. He is a good three point shooter, good in iso situations, great mid range game, he can slash to the basket and draw contact, and once at the line he generally hits them.

[Cyclical]

I totally agree sam. I live in LA now and get into constant, let's call them "civil discussions", about the roster talent levels. There's no question in my mind the the Celtics are more talented top-to-bottom. Just because ESPN keep perpetuating it doesn't mean it's true.

[ChuckTaylors310]

As a Laker fan I feel you have most of our rankings wrong, but besides that I don't think you can Ray Allen as high as you do anymore (higher than lamar, rondo, etc) b/c (as of right now anyway) his jumper is not there and it wasn't there at the end of last year (except the couple of clutch shots he made against the bulls). Last night he was coming off of simple down screens and missing open 2 pointers. He looks almost as bad as Sasha does shooting the ball recently. He looked great posting up the Cavs smaller players but his shooting has been poor compared to the Ray Allen the entire league is used to. But there is no doubt in my mind that you guys are the 2ND best team in the league.

[EJay33]

Come on...

1) These rankings are ridiculous. This isn't how basketball works.

2) The gap between Kobe and Pierce is real. We're talking about a top 10 player all-time versus Paul Pierce.

3) Garnett is far and away the most valuable player we have. I love Sheed, but you're ranking him above Rondo and Bynum? We'll see. He could end up being very valuable but there are no guaransheeds..

Shannon Brown is too low..

[chakdaddy]

The trick is where the breaks are;

1. Kobe

then a decent gap, with Pierce/KG/Gasol relatively close a 2-3-4.

5-6 are Artest and Ray, relatively close.

Bynum is the wild card, if he puts it together he could get up to 5/6/7, if not he's around 10 neck and neck with Perk.

7. Rondo

8-9 Odom, Rasheed, Perk

10 Bynum

11-14 Daniels, House, Big Baby, fisher

Basically, the Lakers top 5 guys are potentially one of the greatest groups ever, and they are reasonably young. That's what's scary. We still have a chance with greater depth.

Thanks again, Chris Wallace, for turning a pretty good team into a potential dynasty, just in time to coincide with our window.

Of course, we can argue that we haven't been hurt at all by the trade yet, other than the Lakers getting a little closer to 17. It's New Orleans, Denver, and Orlando that have really gotten hurt, and it's hard to argue that they ever deserved a title anyway. Cleveland would have beef if they had gotten by Orlando and lost.

[TonyMontana]

If it were a cross country race, Kobe would win but a pack of PP, KG, RA, Rondo and possibly Sheed would finish before Gasol. Pierce isn't that far below Kobe, and one of the areas he is a step blow, explosive scoring is hidden by having so many stars on the team.

I have said this before and I'll say it again. By far you are the biggest Cs homer on this board. Not in a bad way but come on now. Look at your post. So Kobe is ahead of the entire Cs team but then this is how you rank the rest of your players...........
1. Kobe
2. Pierce
3. Garnett
4. Allen
5. Rondo
6. Wallace
7. Gasol
8. Odom
9. Artest
10. Bynum
11. Daniels
12. Perkins
13. Davis
14. House
15. Fisher
16. Walton
17. Vucavic
18. Brown
19. Farmar
20. S. Williams


This has to be by far one of your HEMINGWAYs most incrediable post ever, but nothing can beat your "Its 3 am and I decided to start a new thread "This years Cs has to be the greatest teams ever assembled" or how about last years thread "Our starting five can beat the W/C starting five allstars".

You forgot how we broke your 12 game winning streak in your house when Kobe had 26 points with 10 rebounds and Paul Gasol had 24 and 14. Lamar had 20 and 6 I believe Paul Pierce scored 21 and 6 Ray Allen had 22 and 2 while K.G fouled out and had 16 and 6, but hey that was last year, we still didnt have Bynum.

Honestly brah, you guys got a good squad, but to sit here and keep claiming your big three is above and beyond Kobe, Pau and Lamar is seriously funny. By the way I guess you havent been watching Bynum play lately since you have him ranked 10th. The kid is averaging 24 plus ppg in the preseason and he scored 26 and 13 last night. If he stays healthy I think he will give both Perkins and Big baby a hard time if and when we meet again, but get real.

Nothing wrong with supporting your team but its onething to support your team and its another to sit here and claim your big three is still a dominating force which they are not. They havent been since you guys won your title in 08, and you need your bench. I said the samething last year, your team is one injury away from missing the playoffs and with big baby out for 6 weeks puts more pressure on K.G and Sheed. There not young bucks anymore and K.G doesnt want to reinjur himself for too much p.t.

[greenchaos]

Take away Kobe from the Lakers and they become under .500 team. Take away one of our best players (assuming KG) and while we wouldn't win a championship we could still contender for one at least. Same could not be said for the Crab walkers.

[TonyMontana]

Take away Kobe from the Lakers and they become under .500 team. Take away one of our best players (assuming KG) and while we wouldn't win a championship we could still contender for one at least. Same could not be said for the Crab walkers.

Here we go with the take away or what ifs. The same could be said about your team or any other team for that matter. In fact you guys barely beat the young Bulls last year with out K.G.
Take away K.G and Ray and your a lottery team, which you were in 07 when you had the worst record so whats your point brah?

[greenchaos]

Take away Kobe from the Lakers and they become under .500 team. Take away one of our best players (assuming KG) and while we wouldn't win a championship we could still contender for one at least. Same could not be said for the Crab walkers.

Here we go with the take away or what ifs. The same could be said about your team or any other team for that matter.
Take away K.G and Ray and your a lottery team, which you were so whats your point brah?

My point is, Lakers & Cavs have only 1 go-to-guy and you know this. Its Kobe and LeBron, the Celtic's have 3 now maybe even 4 with Rondo. What are the chances of our big 3 going down (all of them) slim to none...and what are the chances of Lakers and Cavs losing their best player ?? high...

[TonyMontana]

Take away Kobe from the Lakers and they become under .500 team. Take away one of our best players (assuming KG) and while we wouldn't win a championship we could still contender for one at least. Same could not be said for the Crab walkers.

Here we go with the take away or what ifs. The same could be said about your team or any other team for that matter.
Take away K.G and Ray and your a lottery team, which you were so whats your point brah?

My point is, Lakers & Cavs have only 1 go-to-guy and you know this. Its Kobe and LeBron, the Celtic's have 3 now maybe even 4 with Rondo. What are the chances of our big 3 going down (all of them) slim to none...and what are the chances of Lakers and Cavs losing their best player ?? high...

Your kidding right?

So who's Pau, Artest, Lamar?? You forgot that Lamar alone shut K.G down the last ime we meet, not only shut him down but K.G fouled out. You forgot that Artes alone with no TMac or Yao gave us a hard time in the playoffs on his own. You do realize he is on the Lakers now right?

You do realize that Bynum is playing much better than he did last year before he got injured right?
You talk as if your big threes are a group of young guns that just entered the NBA. If anything you should be more concerned about K.G getting hurt since now Baby is out 6 weeks for his injury.

[Bad-Thoma]

TonyMontana!! I didn't expect to see you weigh in on this thread!! lol

[Mahoney_jr]

Premature discussion. I like our team, but I have to admit that the Lakers are... quite... ok.

[greenchaos]

TonyMontana, you do realize that Boston wiped the floor with the Lakers when we won the 17th championship ? Lakers 15th championship to me was a given one considering they didn't play the leagues BEST which are the Celtics.

But you have your points of view and I have mine. Let's just see how Lakers would do without Kobe or Cavs without LeBron. Let's look at it this way:

How many players the Lakers have right now that will become HOF some day ? How about the Cavs ..??

Are you going to tell me that Odom and Artest are HOF ? Or even Gasol ?

KG - HOF
RA - HOF
PP - HOF

That's 3 guaranteed right there. Rasheed could crack that as well.

[TonyMontana]

TonyMontana!! I didn't expect to see you weigh in on this thread!! lol

[DEEP3CL]

Yep........the season has started, like clock work it's another Laker thread. Why?

[TonyMontana]

TonyMontana, you do realize that Boston wiped the floor with the Lakers when we won the 17th championship ?

Sure you guys did chaos, see I can admit when my team was defeated. Can you?
I dont want to beat a dead horse since thats all some Cs fan like to do beat a dead horse. We lost, big deal. Its one thing to lose and disapear for decades and never to return to the finals and its another to lose and blame noone but yourself as the Lakers team did and return the following year and beat every contender both at home and away then return back to the finals and run over the same team that wooped your Cs with or without K.G. At least we dont come up with excuses or what if or if so and so wasnt injured excuses. Your team and fans did. We can sit here and keep bringing up if K.G wasnt injured the same way we can bring up if Bynum or Ariza wasnt injured but whats the point of couldve wouldve excuses since thats all it is excuses.

You guys won 08 and we won 09. End of that debate.

Lakers 15th championship to me was a given one considering they didn't play the leagues BEST which are the Celtics.

See this is where you and other peps not all but other peps like you sound redicoulous and foolish. So you won your title fair and square while ours was givin to us. Tell me how is it givin to us when we flat out wooped the same team that beat you guys as well as the top team in the NBA (Cavs). Youact like we lost to the Cavs and your Celtics in the regular season and it was a walk in the park for out title. Was it??? Come on if your going to sit here and pull up things out your you know what then at least comeup with something logical not YOUR TITLE WAS GIVIN TO YOU garbage.

And you werent the leagues best, you were the 4th best team in the league, and we beat the top three team hands down. So again your wrong about the best team in the league. NOT EVEN CLOSE. In fact you guys wouldnt have even gotted past the fist round if Ray didnt hit those critical shots. So again the leagues best was the Cavs and the Lakers were second and we are the Champs. Thats how the pecking order goes REALISTICALLY not in your world of what ifs.

But you have your points of view and I have mine. Let's just see how Lakers would do without Kobe or Cavs without LeBron. Let's look at it this way:

See this is why you and others need to stop running their mouth since the samething was said last year. Like I said if anyone should be worried it should be Celtics fans, I think we all know to well that the Cs arent even contenders without K.G. Thats already proven, no if and and butts about it, your team isnt a contender without K.G. So again worry about K.G before you worry about Kobe, but feel free to hold your breath and hope that Kobe will get injured. I mean thats probably the only way you wont see the Lakers win another title, RIGHT?

How many players the Lakers have right now that will become HOF some day ? How about the Cavs ..??

LMAO who cares brah, you act like H.O.F can bring titles. Here I'll use my own Lakers for example. Do you recall a three peat Lakers that had Kobe, Shaq and Malone and Payton? Sure you do, what happened to them when they played a young Detroit team. They got their arses handed to them, so again whats your point. Having H.O.Famers on your team guarantees a title specially ones that are over 30 years old??

Are you going to tell me that Odom and Artest are HOF ? Or even Gasol ?

KG - HOF
RA - HOF
PP - HOF

That's 3 guaranteed right there. Rasheed could crack that as well.

Your three H.O.F have the same amount of rings as the Lakers NOBODIES, so whats your point?

See this is why I dont like to get into all these premature arguments about who's going to win and whos not. Its too early for that. Lets wait till we are midway through the season or at least in the playoffs before we have these arguments. HOW ABOUT THAT?

[SonicYouth34]

Not a anti-Lakers thing, but outside Odom, their bench blows.

[Danny Darko]

TonyMontana, you do realize that Boston wiped the floor with the Lakers when we won the 17th championship ? Lakers 15th championship to me was a given one considering they didn't play the leagues BEST which are the Celtics.

But you have your points of view and I have mine. Let's just see how Lakers would do without Kobe or Cavs without LeBron. Let's look at it this way:

How many players the Lakers have right now that will become HOF some day ? How about the Cavs ..??

Are you going to tell me that Odom and Artest are HOF ? Or even Gasol ?

KG - HOF
RA - HOF
PP - HOF

That's 3 guaranteed right there. Rasheed could crack that as well.

So do you remember last season pre-Garnett injury?

Really the repeated problem I see with this thread is that b-ball is a game of matchups, not numbered lists.

And for the record Shaq HOF but Shaq vs Bynum right now.... Drew wins hands down. It's more about where the players in the matchups are right now at this moment vs each other.

to that Perk actually has always played very strong vs Bynum, but if you look at them separately Bynum dominated pre-season and game 1... but in the matchup... we know Perk gives him fits traditionally. Same with Odom and last years Gasol vs Garnett.

... or you could bring Bill Russell out of retirement and just claim BR- HOF vs Gasol... right on.

You guys have a rad team and should be out Finals matchup barring injuries for either squad, but it's early man and alot will be conjecture until we see some head to head matchups in the games between us.