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Kings @ Hornets

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Re: Kings @ Hornets 

Post#81 » by KF10 » Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:36 am

mitchweber wrote:
His profession is to be a basketball player. I mean those are things are nice events to attend and what not, but his commitment to the team and his own improvement should come first. This team is investing millions of dollars and used a #10 pick on him. It's not like he didn't know that the summer league was coming.


I agree.

I think it was a bad situation overall. But if the coaching management is using that situation as a justification of May starting, that's unfair. I know it is risky to have both players (Thompson/Hawes) together due to a potential foul trouble situation (and knowing that we don't have depth at the center position) but these guys are alleged cornerstones for us (well, not cornerstones but significant pieces for this team) and they should have the maximize time together. Learning from each other, building chemistry and learning their mistakes.

I would rather take a risk and go with the Thompson/Hawes duo and having May and Brockman coming off the bench.
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Re: Kings @ Hornets 

Post#82 » by KF10 » Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:22 am

I stumbled upon this:

Jus got home from the game...gr8 to win the home opener, tough game but we pulled it out...VERY impressed wit the young fella Tyreke Evans!


http://twitter.com/OneandonlyCP3

This is from Chris Paul's twitter page. He is giving props to Evans! That's awesome to hear that from the game's best point guard. Image
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Re: Kings @ Hornets 

Post#83 » by darkadun » Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:14 pm

Yeah, you could tell after the game he was giving Evans props, and that he respects him already. Pretty impressive for a 20 year old in his 2nd NBA game. Evans his some clutch jumpers at the end of the game. You gotta be impressed with his defense too. It seemed that Paul didn't even want to drive in with Evans guarding him, he mainly took jumpers off screens. When Beno was guarding him, he was alot more aggressive. Down the line, Evans defense alone could be huge for us.


I don't mind that they lost, it was a exciting game and they played hard. Thats all I really want from the team this year. JT had alot of opportunites, but I think he will figure it out and get better around the rim, especially with Shareef working with him.
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Re: Kings @ Hornets 

Post#84 » by deNIEd » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:25 pm

KF10 wrote:But if the coaching management is using that situation as a justification of May starting, that's unfair.


Eh, right now Hawes is playing like pure crap. May is outplaying him.

I've never seen any starting player get pushed around so easily as I'm seeing with Hawes. The disappointing thing is, he never appeared to be this weak before, I don't recall last year being this bad.
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Re: Kings @ Hornets 

Post#85 » by Smills91 » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:45 pm

Wolfay wrote:
Smills91 wrote:Martin couldn't buy a whistle. Evans was HACKED to death by Okafor/Wright on that penultimate offensive possession.


It wasn't like Martin was being all that aggressive. He took mostly jumpers if I remember correctly.

Anyway, there are a lot of positives we can take from the game despite the loss, Evans being the main one. He can drive to the hoop at will, create for others with ease (assuming they can hit the shot), and seriously bother people on the defensive end. Paul did get 31 points, but he only managed 4 assists and you could definitely see the look of frustration on Paul's face. Evans is the real deal.

Brockman is another positive. He's a real rebounding and hustle MACHINE. He was everything we wanted out of Justin Williams but never got. He's freakin' everywhere, and he has absolutely no concern for himself or anybody else as long as he gets the loose ball. Blair who? I'm impressed.

There are other positives, but those two stick out to me. All around great effort tonight.


I can remember 3 disntict plays in the 2nd half where Martin got hammered and had to fold up on the shot, with absolutely no thought to a foul call. Crawford had his whistle swallowed so far down it was hanging out his ass.
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Re: Kings @ Hornets 

Post#86 » by Wolfay » Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:03 pm

deNIEd wrote:
KF10 wrote:But if the coaching management is using that situation as a justification of May starting, that's unfair.


Eh, right now Hawes is playing like pure crap. May is outplaying him.

I've never seen any starting player get pushed around so easily as I'm seeing with Hawes. The disappointing thing is, he never appeared to be this weak before, I don't recall last year being this bad.


I agree. Hawes played actually fairly well against most big guys last year, including Yao and even Shaq. I don't what's happened with him as of late, but he really needs to get over it.
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Re: Kings @ Hornets 

Post#87 » by Wolfay » Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:08 pm

Smills91 wrote:
Wolfay wrote:
Smills91 wrote:Martin couldn't buy a whistle. Evans was HACKED to death by Okafor/Wright on that penultimate offensive possession.


It wasn't like Martin was being all that aggressive. He took mostly jumpers if I remember correctly.

Anyway, there are a lot of positives we can take from the game despite the loss, Evans being the main one. He can drive to the hoop at will, create for others with ease (assuming they can hit the shot), and seriously bother people on the defensive end. Paul did get 31 points, but he only managed 4 assists and you could definitely see the look of frustration on Paul's face. Evans is the real deal.

Brockman is another positive. He's a real rebounding and hustle MACHINE. He was everything we wanted out of Justin Williams but never got. He's freakin' everywhere, and he has absolutely no concern for himself or anybody else as long as he gets the loose ball. Blair who? I'm impressed.

There are other positives, but those two stick out to me. All around great effort tonight.


I can remember 3 disntict plays in the 2nd half where Martin got hammered and had to fold up on the shot, with absolutely no thought to a foul call. Crawford had his whistle swallowed so far down it was hanging out his ass.


Perhaps, but I can remember several distinct plays where Martin wussed-out and took the jumper. Martin had himself an awful game, so let's just leave it at that.
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Re: Kings @ Hornets 

Post#88 » by Smills91 » Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:18 pm

Wolfay wrote:
Smills91 wrote:
Wolfay wrote:
I can remember 3 disntict plays in the 2nd half where Martin got hammered and had to fold up on the shot, with absolutely no thought to a foul call. Crawford had his whistle swallowed so far down it was hanging out his ass.


Perhaps, but I can remember several distinct plays where Martin wussed-out and took the jumper. Martin had himself an awful game, so let's just leave it at that.


Oh I agree he settled for jumpers, but that may have been a result of him getting absolutely PLASTERED by the defense with no calls, so he may have figured take an open shot, rather than a more difficult shot where the refs won;'t call it properly.
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Re: Kings @ Hornets 

Post#89 » by deNIEd » Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:22 pm

Wolfay wrote:I agree. Hawes played actually fairly well against most big guys last year, including Yao and even Shaq. I don't what's happened with him as of late, but he really needs to get over it.


Exactly. He didn't do terrible against the elite bigs last year (Yao, Shaq, Duncan, etc.) but for some reason this year, he's getting absolutely dominated by average guys (Oden, Bynum, Krstic)

Smills91 wrote:Oh I agree he settled for jumpers, but that may have been a result of him getting absolutely PLASTERED by the defense with no calls, so he may have figured take an open shot, rather than a more difficult shot where the refs won;'t call it properly.


Regardless of the calls and how well or bad Martin played last night, I still feel his game is too dependent on getting calls. It seems that at times he looks to get the foul first regardless of the situation, which is good at times, but at times might not be the best option.
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Re: Kings @ Hornets 

Post#90 » by Smills91 » Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:25 pm

deNIEd wrote:
Wolfay wrote:I agree. Hawes played actually fairly well against most big guys last year, including Yao and even Shaq. I don't what's happened with him as of late, but he really needs to get over it.


Exactly. He didn't do terrible against the elite bigs last year (Yao, Shaq, Duncan, etc.) but for some reason this year, he's getting absolutely dominated by average guys (Oden, Bynum, Krstic)

Smills91 wrote:Oh I agree he settled for jumpers, but that may have been a result of him getting absolutely PLASTERED by the defense with no calls, so he may have figured take an open shot, rather than a more difficult shot where the refs won;'t call it properly.


Regardless of the calls and how well or bad Martin played last night, I still feel his game is too dependent on getting calls. It seems that at times he looks to get the foul first regardless of the situation, which is good at times, but at times might not be the best option.


I kinda agree with that. I really think Martin needs to be a 2nd or 3rd option to be maximally utilized. Volume shooting is not his strength. Efficiency is. If we had one big man to help take the pressure off of him offensively, then I think he can pick and choose his shots again. I think the evolution of Martin(while still amazing) has had him make poorer decisions offensively.
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Re: Kings @ Hornets 

Post#91 » by darkadun » Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:10 pm

Totally agree Smills. While he had a off game and did take alot of the shots, I liked how they were using him. In times past, it seemed like the kobe/lebron syndrome. Give Martin the ball and let him bail us out. At least last night they were feeding the ball to other guys, taking it down low with JT (even tho he missed some gimmes, he'll learn). Alot of Martins shots were wide open on the perimiter. he just should of made them or pump'd and took a closer shot.

I don't think Evans and Martin are on the same page yet, but that will come. When they learn how to play off each other and together, they will be a deadly backcourt.
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Re: Kings @ Hornets 

Post#92 » by KingInExile » Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:31 pm

deNIEd wrote:Regardless of the calls and how well or bad Martin played last night, I still feel his game is too dependent on getting calls. It seems that at times he looks to get the foul first regardless of the situation, which is good at times, but at times might not be the best option.

B-I-N-G-O! This is one of the few things we agree on. Martin needs to learn how to play basketball instead of relying on trying to get to the line. Yes, it scores points. But it also costs the team in productivity when the refs aren't buying the acting job.
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Re: Kings @ Hornets 

Post#93 » by KF10 » Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:48 pm

deNIEd wrote:
Eh, right now Hawes is playing like pure crap. May is outplaying him.

I've never seen any starting player get pushed around so easily as I'm seeing with Hawes. The disappointing thing is, he never appeared to be this weak before, I don't recall last year being this bad.



Well, like I said he still has an undeveloped body. And I believe we will see his mature body next season. I really never expected Hawes to make significant jump into his development this year knowing that his body isn't at its peak yet. He is around 245 pounds and the ideal weight is around 255-260. That will take another offseason to do that. Unless, Hawes bulk up in the middle of the season.

Until then, we have to keep our direct opinions about Hawes in check.

He will be regulated in the high post more than in the post. I think it comes down to pure patience with the fans. Which I can do.
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Re: Kings @ Hornets 

Post#94 » by pillwenney » Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:51 pm

KingInExile wrote:
deNIEd wrote:Regardless of the calls and how well or bad Martin played last night, I still feel his game is too dependent on getting calls. It seems that at times he looks to get the foul first regardless of the situation, which is good at times, but at times might not be the best option.

B-I-N-G-O! This is one of the few things we agree on. Martin needs to learn how to play basketball instead of relying on trying to get to the line. Yes, it scores points. But it also costs the team in productivity when the refs aren't buying the acting job.


At the end of games, sure. But more often than not, it's an extremely effective tactic in scoring, it more often than not helps the team considerably. You can't deny his scoring efficiency.
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Re: Kings @ Hornets 

Post#95 » by Wolfay » Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:02 pm

mitchweber wrote:
KingInExile wrote:
deNIEd wrote:Regardless of the calls and how well or bad Martin played last night, I still feel his game is too dependent on getting calls. It seems that at times he looks to get the foul first regardless of the situation, which is good at times, but at times might not be the best option.

B-I-N-G-O! This is one of the few things we agree on. Martin needs to learn how to play basketball instead of relying on trying to get to the line. Yes, it scores points. But it also costs the team in productivity when the refs aren't buying the acting job.


At the end of games, sure. But more often than not, it's an extremely effective tactic in scoring, it more often than not helps the team considerably. You can't deny his scoring efficiency.


It's efficient, nobody denies that, but it's as if Martin expects the call every single time and he forgets about finishing when in reality, he should never expect the call. He drives, throws it up, and hey, where's the foul? That's just half-assing it.
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Re: Kings @ Hornets 

Post#96 » by pillwenney » Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:12 pm

Wolfay wrote:
mitchweber wrote:
At the end of games, sure. But more often than not, it's an extremely effective tactic in scoring, it more often than not helps the team considerably. You can't deny his scoring efficiency.


It's efficient, nobody denies that, but it's as if Martin expects the call every single time and he forgets about finishing when in reality, he should never expect the call. He drives, throws it up, and hey, where's the foul? That's just half-assing it.


He definitely prioritizes getting the call at times, but he also finishes well through contact often because he's so good at shooting from weird positions. Regardless, it's ultimately effective most of the time.
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Re: Kings @ Hornets 

Post#97 » by Smills91 » Sun Nov 1, 2009 1:16 am

KingInExile wrote:
deNIEd wrote:Regardless of the calls and how well or bad Martin played last night, I still feel his game is too dependent on getting calls. It seems that at times he looks to get the foul first regardless of the situation, which is good at times, but at times might not be the best option.

B-I-N-G-O! This is one of the few things we agree on. Martin needs to learn how to play basketball instead of relying on trying to get to the line. Yes, it scores points. But it also costs the team in productivity when the refs aren't buying the acting job.


what game were you watching? While Martin does TRY to draw contact, there WAS MOST DEFINITELY contact, you can't put that on Martin 'acting' when the DAMN F-UP known as Joey Crawford should be blowing the whistle according to the NBA rulebook. That's Martin being smart there, and he adapted to officiating by shooting jumpers because they wouldn't give him a damn call last night.
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Re: Kings @ Hornets 

Post#98 » by KingInExile » Sun Nov 1, 2009 4:06 am

Smills91 wrote:
KingInExile wrote:
deNIEd wrote:Regardless of the calls and how well or bad Martin played last night, I still feel his game is too dependent on getting calls. It seems that at times he looks to get the foul first regardless of the situation, which is good at times, but at times might not be the best option.

B-I-N-G-O! This is one of the few things we agree on. Martin needs to learn how to play basketball instead of relying on trying to get to the line. Yes, it scores points. But it also costs the team in productivity when the refs aren't buying the acting job.


what game were you watching? While Martin does TRY to draw contact, there WAS MOST DEFINITELY contact, you can't put that on Martin 'acting' when the DAMN F-UP known as Joey Crawford should be blowing the whistle according to the NBA rulebook. That's Martin being smart there, and he adapted to officiating by shooting jumpers because they wouldn't give him a damn call last night.

The fact that you have a uncontrollable hatred for Joey Crawford and probably 80% of the officiating core does not change the fact that Martin tries too hard too many times to act his way to the line rather than play the damn game.

One of these days you need to get over this irrational persecution complex you have regarding officials. It's unhealthy. Although they do make mistakes occasionally, they are generally fair.
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Re: Kings @ Hornets 

Post#99 » by _SRV_ » Sun Nov 1, 2009 8:52 am

The sad part is that Martin used to be a good shooter and effecient scorer w/o the FTs, it seems that his non-FT game is regressing, and he needs to stop that.
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Re: Kings @ Hornets 

Post#100 » by pillwenney » Sun Nov 1, 2009 9:31 am

^^Ehh, kinda. I'd say the his lowered FG% can mostly be blamed on having to take on a larger load in the offense. The shots he took when we had Ron and Brad, for instance, were more based around moving without the ball. I'd say his lowered FG% is due in most part to him being isolated more than the was before.

Fortunately, the effect of the refs isn't a problem until crunch time. I don't remember many games at all over the past couple of years where Kevin just wasn't getting the calls he usually gets. It's a pretty consistent thing. The main problem as I see it is when he relies on it in crunch time.

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