Rondo vs NBA Best PG in 2008-2009

[Wolves2011]

Looks at head to head stats comparing Rondo vs other top PG. The first month of the season Rondo started slow which skewed his stats in a few cases.

stat Rondo Deron Williams
PTS 40-33
FGA 21-27
FGM12-12
REB10-6
AST 15-17
ST 3-2
TO 7-6
FG% 57%-44%

Rondo outplayed Williams

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stat Rondo Nash

PTS 55-33
FGA 33-27
FGM 22-13
REB 11-4
AST 17-19
ST 5-1
TO 8-7

Rondo dominated Nash

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stat Rondo Harris
PTS 59-48
FGA 35-43
FGM 22-15
REB 23-1
AST 24-17
ST 7-3
TO 9-11
FG% 63%-35%

Rondo dominated Harris

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stat Rondo Kidd
PTS 32-9
FGA 24-15
FGM 15-3
REB 19-13
AST 29-15
ST 5-2
TO 8-2
FG% 63%-20%

Rondo dominated Kidd

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stat Rondo Parker
PTS 22-32
FGA30-35
FGM 11-15
REB 10-10
AST 28-15
ST 4-2
TO 2-3

Big assist margin vs Parker - Rondo better overall

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stat Rondo Paul
PTS 33-16
FGA 23-31
FGM 7-11
REB 14-8
AST 13-19
ST 4-4
TO 6-6

Paul is the player who did best against Rondo - Paul did better

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stat Rondo Billups
PTS 16-21
FGA 15-20
FGM 6-7
REB 8-2
AST 15-12
ST 8-1
TO 3-7

Note: one game in November when Rondo wasn't playing well. He dominated in the second game. About even.

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stat Rondo Calderon
PTS 33-27
FGA 31-21
FGM 13-6
REB 13-7
AST 18-22
ST 3-1
TO 9-5
FG% 42%-29%

Rondo outplayed Calderon

Note: one game in November when Rondo played badly. Rondo outplayed Calderon by a large margin in the latter games.
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stat Rondo Rose
PTS 44-43
FGA 27-35
FGM 15-15
REB 13-7
AST 31-15
ST 5-1
TO 5-7
FG% 56%-43%

Rondo outplayed Rose in regular season

stat Rondo Rose - PLAYOFFS - when Rondo had to step it up!
PTS 136-138
REB 65-44
AST 81-45
ST 19-4
T0 15-35

Rondo dominated against Rose in the playoffs.

[sunshinekids99]

Enough with this Rondo crap. Man you make me want to hate Rondo.

[Wolves2011]

Enough with this Rondo crap. Man you make me want to hate Rondo.

I've seen a zillion people on this site today, saying Rondo didn't deserve his new contract.

I'm just showing how he did against some of those PG, people said were better.

[sunshinekids99]

Then put it in the thread where it belongs. No reason to start a new thread.

[Wolves2011]

Then put it in the thread where it belongs. No reason to start a new thread.

It took me 3 hours to compile these stats... they should NOT get lost in a thread.

[Wolves2011]

I've mostly stayed away from all the bantering about "who is better".

I wanted some statistics to back up my view that Rondo is one of the top PG.

The only PG who outplayed Rondo last season was Chris Paul.

One other PG - Billups played him even [that included one game in November when Rondo played poorly. In the second game Rondo dominated.]

Rondo outplayed outplayed the others, and more often than not, dominated.

[sunshinekids99]

Really those stats can be found quite quickly at basketballreference or even yahoo. And really they don't show everything anyways. You don't show when the guys where matchup up against each other and the minutes each played at the same time.

[SonicYouth34]

I love Rondo, probably more than anyone else, but all these threads aren't necessary. He got paid and he's still gonna continue being a top flight point guard.

[Wolves2011]

Really those stats can be found quite quickly at basketballreference or even yahoo. And really they don't show everything anyways. You don't show when the guys where matchup up against each other and the minutes each played at the same time.

They were games when each PG started and played the game. If a player missed a game, I didn't include it. As for minutes, unless there was foul trouble, it was per usual.

[ParticleMan]

what those stats don't show is that while each of those guys is the Main Man for their teams, Rondo is a 4th or 5th option on ours, who basically only scores when defenses ignore him. Nobody else he is compared with gets ignored by defenses; in fact, for the most part, defenses are geared primarily to stop them.

i love rondo and i'm glad we've signed him long term, but saying he's better than guys like paul and deron is lunacy. there isn't a GM in the league who would take rondo over guys like Paul or D Williams.

[GuyClinch]

^^^ Yup. I would add the C's are a team that frequently SWITCHES on picks - so half the time Rondo isn't even matched up on that player. He gets picked off and rather then have Rondo fight through the pick our scheme is to allow say KG to guard that player.

So any such statistics are misleading and would only fool people who don't actually watch basketball. This isn't to say Rondo does have a huge positive effect just individual "matchups" don't seal the deal.

What your going to need is an unusual event that vindicates Rondo's awesomeness. For example after amassing an incredible record say 27-2 Rondo would get hurt and miss the rest of the season and the C's would thin finish below .500. If something like THAT happened they people like me would be convinced.

Rondo, Perkins, BBD - these are all good players. However I personally feel that many players around the league could replace them and the C's would continue to win games. The effect of losing Rondo wouldn't be season ending. Much like the Magic and their loss of Nelson we would still be in the running for a championship.

Your not going to find any stats to "prove" your case. The team is not run in such a manner. PP is the classic example of this. His naysayers were only quieted after learning that the team was a staggering 8x more likely to win when he played vs. when he was out during that injury filled year.

Basketball is not perfectly amendable to statistical analysis. Things like "individual matchups" aren't REALLY individual matchups so it just not convincing. Sorry man..

Pete

[Wolves2011]

The effect of losing Rondo wouldn't be season ending. Much like the Magic and their loss of Nelson we would still be in the running for a championship.
Pete

Without KG we won 62 games last year and took Orlando to GM 7 of conference semifinals.

Who do we miss most when he isn't on the floor? Rondo!!! RONDO!!

Without Rondo we wouldn't have won 2 years ago and we don't win again. There is no guy in the league who could replace him.

You might say, Chris Paul is almost as good of a defender and passer and a better scorer. The scorer part is a PROBLEM. There are only so many shots. Rondo doesn't demand any. He can score when necessary as we saw in playoffs, but he is a pass first point guard. If Chris Paul played for us, we'd need two basketballs.

[Wolves2011]

Can you think of another player, who'd take 20 shots in four games [about 5 per game] when his contract is one the line and he wants big money?

Some of you think Rondo's not shooting is a problem. Its what Doc wants. Thats why the Celtics are happy and gave him his contract. They know he can score if necessary. They saw it in the playoffs. But thats not what they want from him when we have a healthy Big 3 and Wallace. They want passing. And he provides it.

So far this year Rondo is averaging 11.8 assists and 2.3 turnovers. An assist to turnover ratio of 5.13X - thats almost unheard of....

[sunshinekids99]

I'm so sick of this Rondo is the most important part of this team. And he's the main reason for the 07 title team. I must have made up Eddie House or Sam Cassell taking minutes away from him. I must have missed how he screwed his team over last year in the Orlando series. You don't show up late to a series and then play like garbage in the game.

As for his shooting, I'm sure Doc wish he could hit a jump shot. He can't so he shouldn't take them.

[GuyClinch]

Without KG we won 62 games last year and took Orlando to GM 7 of conference semifinals.

That's a lie - we had KG much of the year. Had he been out more of the year the impact would have been larger. KG played in 57 games. And 2nd round isn't exactly a stellar playoff result. I'd say his impact is pretty huge.

Pete

[Wolves2011]

Without KG we won 62 games last year and took Orlando to GM 7 of conference semifinals.

That's a lie - we had KG much of the year. Had he been out more of the year the impact would have been larger. KG played in 57 games. And 2nd round isn't exactly a stellar playoff result. I'd say his impact is pretty huge.

Pete

Please don't start name calling, when you clearly know what I meant.

Give me a break, I clearly meant the 25 games KG missed, about 30% of the season, but if you want to get "technical" about it , KG has missed 40 games (I'm including the 4 games in Mar 09 when he played only a few minutes) in his first two seasons. The Celtics won 31 of those 40 games. Thats a 78% winning percentage. The 66 wins in the Celtics best season, is an 80% winning percentage. Whether KG plays or not the Celtics win "about" the same number of games.

I'd argue the same would be true if Pierce or Ray were out for a "longish" period of time. The Celtics are "redundant" in the areas those guys contribute, shooting and team defense.

What Rondo provides, great play making, incredible disruption of opponents play making, speed and athleticism and most important a one man fast break machine, can't be replaced on this team.

At least thats my opinion.

[IgotCrossed]

When we won in 2008 Rondo would be taken out in crucial moments against the Lakers because he couldn't shoot...When we were down big in game 4 it was Eddie House that was playing when we made that come back.

So let's not say that Rondo doesn't demand shots. It's more like he can't take many and please don't use that to his advantage to say he's arguable one of the best PG's in the game.

[Wolves2011]

When we won in 2008 Rondo would be taken out in crucial moments against the Lakers because he couldn't shoot...When we were down big in game 4 it was Eddie House that was playing when we made that come back.

So let's not say that Rondo doesn't demand shots. It's more like he can't take many and please don't use that to his advantage to say he's arguable one of the best PG's in the game.

two points:

1) Rondo is a much better player than in 2008.

2) Ainge himself said about the 2008 playoffs, and I paraphrase, "there were times when we couldn't play Rondo in the 2008 playoffs, we couldn't keep in on the floor because of his shooting. There were other times when he was the best player on the floor, better than four hall of famers (Kobe, KG, Pierce & Ray)".

So Rondo is sui generis - unique.

And like I said he's better now. He showed he can produce offensively, when needed, in the playoffs last year. Rondo's game will continue to get better. And we have him locked up for the next 6 years - this season and five more.

The data I produced in the first posting in this string shows Rondo "dominated" about half of the "best PG" sometime said to be better than him. Most of the others he outplayed. Only one PG, outplayed him - Chris Paul. And Billups tied Rondo, but thats partally because Rondo played badly in November of 2008 and one of the two games against Denver was in that time frame. Rondo dominated Billups later in the year.

[cwas2882]

Rondo is the best PG in the NBA

[sunshinekids99]

Sorry but the data in this really proves nothing.