How many years left for Pierce? And restructuring contract..

[campybatman]

If Pierce were to choose to opt out, Ray and Rondo (especially Rondo) need to meet him halfway. That is, he's stepping up (sacrifice), they need to step up for the stake of the bigger picture. Pierce, Ray and Garnett are a triad. So it all rest on the final decision of Rondo and agent. I know it's unlikely, but I would prefer a contract extension for Rondo to be worked out before November.

Hey, I reckon Pierce really is Superman! You know, making sacrifices for the greater good. I'm exaggerating... But then, Pierce is a good character guy anyways. So his selflessness shouldn't come as a surprise at this stage of his career. Credit a more mature and conscientious Pierce.

[sully00]

I mentioned in another thread that Pierce would need 5 years of 1600 points to pass Hondo as the team's all time leader in points scored, I imagine that would matter to him.

I was sort of thrown off by the first article because I have assumed that Pierce basically already had an extension in place with the team that just had not become official. Since last off season Pierce has been talking about being in Boston for 5 more years while only having two year on his deal. Right now Pierce is contractually where KG was he came to Boston, KG voided his option year in exchange for a 3 year extension with reduced salaries in the first two years of 16 and 19 and he got his 21 in year 3. If possible I would like for Boston to do that but again give Pierce in option in the 3rd year to restructure the deal again. Maybe he will just take a flat 16 per which would give the team even more flexibility

The second article is more in line with Pierce's message all along. If they do what I describe they will have 5 mil more under the tax level to play with to get extensions done for Ray and Rondo. At that point I would go a year longer on Ray, 3, at a lower avg salary say 8 mil, and maybe do it like 10, 8, 6. Something similar with Rondo were he gets a 5 year deal that starts at 7-8 mil but he has an option in year 5 so if he outplays it he can get a bigger deal. That would should leave enough salary around to take care of Perk who is going to need a bump from the 4 mil he is making now.

Either way Paul Pierce should retire a Celtic and I doubt his game fades to the point that he isn't putting up 16-18 ppg.

[Hilltop]

It's not so much about age than it is mileage. In the case of Grant Hill, even at 36, he hasn't had a lot of mileage on those legs. Sure those multiple ankle surgeries took a toll on his overall athleticism, but that nearly 4-year hiatus spared him from burning himself out earlier. He's not the same player he was pre-injury, but I think he's still in great shape it doesn't seem like he's contemplating retirement just yet. Before he got injured, he was on pace to have accumulated at least a thousand games by now. If that were the case, I think he would be a lot closer to hanging them up by now. Maybe a la Jason Kidd.

Mileage might play a factor but its a small one IMHO. Reggie Miller is a good counter example -he played longer then Hill has and could have even played longer then he did had he been do inclined. I actually think Reggie Lewis would have aged really well too had he not gotten injured.

Obviously you need to be a highly skilled player but being motivated is a huge factor along with the superior training/rehab/injury prevention methods they have nowadays. LB and McHale would have both played longer had they been stars of this era..

Pete

I agree, however Paul Pierce is easily the more physical player so I don't think Reggie Miller is the best comparison. Reggie has racked up a lot of games in his career, but it's also important to consider that Pierce plays a lot more minutes, averages a lot more FGA per game, and gets to the line a lot more than Miller. Reggie's style of play had a lot to do with how long he lasted, IMO. Mileage isn't everything, but it affects some players more than it does others. More so the players who play a lot of minutes and get banged up on a nightly basis (Pierce).

[3pt %]

How's Jordan as a comparison then?

I kid, I kid, relax people!

[campybatman]

With Rondo agreeing to a contract extension, the spotlight is now casted on Pierce. Because it's Pierce who could potentially enable Ainge to sign Ray if Pierce opts out after this season. I don't think he should have to or be pressured to. But if he doesn't feel obligated and genuinely wants to do what he can to help the front office financially to keep Ray beyond this season. It'll be his decision.

It just makes things interesting if he decides not to opt out. What's Ray's future with Boston?

[sully00]

Pierce has no impact on Boston resigning Ray Allen to any amount allowed by league rules it doesn't make sense to confuse issues. This isn't football.

If Paul is willing to give up the 21.5 mil option he has for an extension that is something the team should look at.

He is actually could end up being a bit of a case study on how the "leeway" described in the FAQ would work. Technically Pierce is now falls under the "over 36" provision. Essentially meaning that he is limited to a 4 year contract or a complicated contract structure. But he would seem to be exactly who they are describing when the FAQ talks about extensions

The Over-36 rule also applies to extensions and renegotiations. They always start counting from the date the extension or renegotiation is signed. For example, if a contract with two years remaining is extended by three years, it's counted as a five-year contract. For extensions, a little leeway is given for players who have played ten or more seasons for the team signing the extension.

Will the league allow Pierce to get a 5 year deal in place of his 21 mil player option without the over 36 provision, considering it is at a lower salary. Is that something Boston would want to do stick with Pierce till he is 38 years old and at what price. Baron Davis got 5 years 65 mil, he is younger but not as good or healthy. Nobody in the league is really similar, though Dirk will be in the same situation in DAl but 8 months younger.

Is what Baron got enough? would it take 15 a year? Could they put that 21.5 in year 3 and give him a 11 a year in the first 2 and the last 2? Do they let him play GM and let him dictate that if he does reduce his salary that they have to extend Ray and Perk?

Either way hope it gets done.

[GuyClinch]

^^^Yeah. I'd really like Paul to be a career Celtic. Redoing his deal makes it likely to happen.

[Captain_Caveman]

Offer him a 3 year $45m contract this summer if he is willing to opt out.

Reduces our payroll by at least $6m next season and gives him an extra $24m in guaranteed money.

[campybatman]

Does anyone believe that Ray might decide to walk knowing that Rondo's here to stay for the foreseeable future. I was listening to the radio, Felger and Massarotti, and they were discussing the report that Ray didn't visit the Hornets' locker room to apologize for Rondo. And the thought occurred to me: How good of a relationship does Ray and Rondo have? Of the veterans, Rondo seemingly can irk Ray the easiest. Well, second to Rivers in general.

I would like to see Ray return but will Rondo resigning be enough to affect Ray's decision to resign with Boston. I know Ray probably wants to stay more than go. However, could we see Ray and Rondo get into arguments during games again and again. I just think it looks bad when teammates argue in front of everyone to see. I mean even if it isn't always much to it.

[Captain_Caveman]

Well, bonsai... we do know this much. Ray has had a very strong impact on Rondo in terms of his preparation and practice habits.

And while he may not appreciate the kid's attitude, bottom line is that Ray and Rondo have been living off of each other's games for quite some time now. I'm sure that Ray deserves a cut of that contract for getting Rondo's assist numbers up, but truth be told, I actually think that Ray has been more dependent on Rondo than vice-versa for almost a year now.

[GuyClinch]

^^^ Don't agree. The kind of assists Ray generates are pretty generic swing the ball passes for the most part. Things like Rondo showing up late on game day and such likely chaff Ray. If the C's offer Ray less then Rondo I think he would bolt simply out of pride.

It's the centers and other bigs on a team that often rely more on a PG. Though even that won't work if you have a big who can't finish around the rim..

Truthfully none of our players are reliant on Rondo. PP was a proven scorer before Rondo arrived and does much of his scoring one one one or off wide open swing passes (to the three point line). Ray does alot of his scoring off of picks and set plays which again most NBA players can handle. And Ray again has the resume to prove that's the case. Finally there is KG a big who unlike most can score pretty well away from the basket..and can create his own shot with his back to the basket..

You can make the case they BENEFIT from him. But reliant..no way. Not at all..

Pete

[sam_I_am]

^^^ Don't agree. The kind of assists Ray generates are pretty generic swing the ball passes for the most part. Things like Rondo showing up late on game day and such likely chaff Ray. If the C's offer Ray less then Rondo I think he would bolt simply out of pride.

It's the centers and other bigs on a team that often rely more on a PG. Though even that won't work if you have a big who can't finish around the rim..

Truthfully none of our players are reliant on Rondo. PP was a proven scorer before Rondo arrived and does much of his scoring one one one or off wide open swing passes (to the three point line). Ray does alot of his scoring off of picks and set plays which again most NBA players can handle. And Ray again has the resume to prove that's the case. Finally there is KG a big who unlike most can score pretty well away from the basket..and can create his own shot with his back to the basket..

You can make the case they BENEFIT from him. But reliant..no way. Not at all..

Pete

I think you make a great point. It is why the team actually plays just as well with Marquis Daniels at the point when he really is no PG.

That doens't mean Rondo can't be the guy who gets easy baskets for everybody. I actually think he does that a lot. The team has such great versatility - guys like Allen, Pierce and Garnett played most of their careers without a top notch PG so they can get the job done without one. But getting easy baskets for Paul and KG at this stage of his career is huge because neither is the 3 pt. threat that Allen is and neither can do the Lebron 1 on 5 anymore either.

[campybatman]

Well, bonsai... we do know this much. Ray has had a very strong impact on Rondo in terms of his preparation and practice habits.

And while he may not appreciate the kid's attitude, bottom line is that Ray and Rondo have been living off of each other's games for quite some time now. I'm sure that Ray deserves a cut of that contract for getting Rondo's assist numbers up, but truth be told, I actually think that Ray has been more dependent on Rondo than vice-versa for almost a year now.

I'm sure Ray can look beyond what frustrates him about Rondo's personality like an older brother is supposed to be the more mature one toward his younger brother. However, we all know that between he and Garnett, Ray had to adjust his game the most once with Boston. He's use to being the first option on offense, and Boston was a transition for him. I mean there's a lot Ray has to accept while being a Celtic and knows that his career is nearer an end sooner than Pierce and Garnett if we're just talking from an age standpoint. A good point was raised yesterday during their show, Ray's the least complete player of he, Pierce and Garnett. And you could add R. Wallace as well. They'd said, he's one dimensional. Maybe suggesting, he's not outstanding anywhere else outside of being a shooter and scorer. What I took from the conversation isn't that Ray's expendable but I can understand some frustration he may have toward Rondo or could've in terms of his role on this team since he was acquired via a trade. And there's the age difference and character differences. Ray is simply a rarity of his kind. He can fit in with his veteran Boston teammates, but he still stands out by his approach to the game and in his work ethic. He'll probably out last all of the veterans on the team. Perhaps, why it isn't hard to say his name and Reggie Miller's in the same breathe.

I just think it's hard for him being a Celtic, not just when learning to understand Rondo. Ray's standards as a player and person (how he treats his body and carries himself in life) are so high that I can only imagine how his personality can make him a tough player to keep up with.

But, I agree, I believe Rondo and Ray are a good pairing no matter how differently one looks at it. I suspect Ray knows that. He wouldn't resign with Boston for a different reason.

[GuyClinch]

just think it's hard for him being a Celtic, not just when learning to understand Rondo. Ray's standards as a player and person (how he treats his body and carries himself in life) are so high that I can only imagine how his personality can make him a tough player to keep up with.

I think your wrong about this basically on all fronts.

1) It's not hard for him being a Celtic. He might not be the "main man" but he scores points in a similiar way and he is a winning team with HOF players. Its probably much EASIER then it has ever been for him basketball wise.

2) "Understanding Rondo"? I think your out of touch with pro locker rooms. I don't think they particularly worry about 'understanding" the psyche of their fellow players. It's less communal then you seem to think. There are cliques - don't get me wrong. But if your not in clique all the other players are going to care about is if you show up, go to practice and from Ray's point of view get him the ball in the right place at the right time..

3) "tough player to keep up with" Again I disagree. Ray seems easy enough to get along with. Being a neat nic, fastidious and ritualistic is pretty low in the great scheme of things on the difficult to get along with list. Being emotional (like a BBD) or having a sense of entitlement (Rondo) are probably a LITTLE harder to deal with. But issues like skipping practice, drinking, weapons, wife beating etc would be far more taxing.

Its no different then work.. Do you have trouble getting along with the guy who always shows up on time and always gets his work done? ..

Your really overthinking the issue. Ray could easily skip town and go be a marksman for Cleveland. I doubt he will but there is nothing in his game that would keep him from functioning with Mo Williams and Lebron.

Pete