Pioneer Press: Revisiting the KG Trade

[Wolves2011]

Pioneer press FORGOT ABOUT KEY PARTS OF THE KG TRADE.

We got back our - the wolves- first round pick. It brought us Love and Miller.

Miller was half of what got us Rubio [Miller and Foye for rights to #5 pick which got Rubio].

The KG trade also brought cap space [Ratliff contract], which we haven't used yet.

So the Boston trade brought us:

Jefferson
Gomes
Love and
half of Rubio
cap space to be used next summer

Thats not bad, but you won't see that in that article....

hate to break it to you but even though we did get back our pick it didn't have any consequences on picking Love etc. because firstly we owe our 1st rounder to the Clippers until 2012.

wouldn't it depend on the conditions of our pick that Boston held?

[Banks2Pierce]

KG trade was pretty bad. But what can you expect when your GM is a former Celtic great. He wasn't going to trade him to the Suns for Amare or the Lakers for Bynum and Odom.

Typical salty Lakers fan that doesn't understand how much better Jefferson is than Bynum.

[Klomp]

wouldn't it depend on the conditions of our pick that Boston held?

We made the trade with LA first which means that, no matter if the conditions of the pick were met or not, we are locked in to deal the pick to LA first. There is also a rule that you cannot deal your own 1st rounder in two consecutive drafts. So the earliest Boston could have gotten our pick from the Ricky Davis/Wally Szczerbiak deal (which is the one we got back in the Kg Trade) would be two years after our pick goes to the Clippers, which obviously hasn't happened yet.

[HitMan52]

KG trade was pretty bad. But what can you expect when your GM is a former Celtic great. He wasn't going to trade him to the Suns for Amare or the Lakers for Bynum and Odom.

I still dont understand why people keep saying that KG trade was bad. If you can get a 20/10 23 year old powerforward for a 31 year old HOF PF who is on a team that is going no where they you got yourself a great deal.

People still dont understand how good Al Jefferson is. He is obviously better than how he is playing right now because when he is healthy he is one of the best in the league.

[Wolves2011]

wouldn't it depend on the conditions of our pick that Boston held?

We made the trade with LA first which means that, no matter if the conditions of the pick were met or not, we are locked in to deal the pick to LA first. There is also a rule that you cannot deal your own 1st rounder in two consecutive drafts. So the earliest Boston could have gotten our pick from the Ricky Davis/Wally Szczerbiak deal (which is the one we got back in the Kg Trade) would be two years after our pick goes to the Clippers, which obviously hasn't happened yet.

I was wrong, I thought we got Love with the pick back from the Celtics. The Celtics pick got us Flynn instead.

..... if the conditions of the clippers pick are met, the clippers are first, in line, but if wasn't outside of top 10, then the Celtics had priority until protection of Clipper pick ended.

But the conditions of the Celtics pick were more lenient. The Celts pick was lottery protected for the first year 2006, top 5 the second (2007) and top 3 (2008) from there out.

So since we had pick 3 in Love's year... it was protected. But the #5 pick in 2009 would have gone to the Celtics. [Clippers weren't eligible since, since it was still top 10]

Without getting that pick back the Celtics would have gotten Flynn.

So we got

Jefferson
Gomes
Flynn

From stuff Celtics "stuff".

[Klomp]

..... if the conditions of the clippers pick are met, the clippers are first, in line, but if wasn't outside of top 10, then the Celtics had priority until protection of Clipper pick ended.

Wrong. Clippers dealt for a 2006 pick. That pick was protected, but it is still property of the Clippers. No matter if the original team (Minnesota, in this case) gets to keep the pick, it cannot deal it to another team because it is the Clippers' property.

[Tekkenlaw]

KG trade was pretty bad. But what can you expect when your GM is a former Celtic great. He wasn't going to trade him to the Suns for Amare or the Lakers for Bynum and Odom.

Typical salty Lakers fan that doesn't understand how much better Jefferson is than Bynum.

Not really, when I voice these concerns about Jefferson, it's as a Wolves fan, they are my 2nd team. A Bynum-Love front court looks a lot better to me than a Jefferson-Love front court. I'm fine with how things turned out, Lakers ended up with a title. Why would I be salty? A title is a title, it doesn't matter what players are on your roster when you win it. Granted that as a fan of the Wolves and Lakers, the way things played out stung like absolute hell, but the Lakers aren't my priority when it comes to this subject, my main concern is the Wolves future success, and I don't think they will have much of it building around Jefferson.

McHale could have easily said Rondo or no deal, he didn't use the leverage he had to get the best deal possible. He put the success of the Celtics above the success of the Wolves, and that's one of the many reasons he was a terrible GM.

KG trade was pretty bad. But what can you expect when your GM is a former Celtic great. He wasn't going to trade him to the Suns for Amare or the Lakers for Bynum and Odom.

1. Phoenix didn't want to trade Amare 2. tbh I wouldn't have wanted Amare for KG 3. I also didn't really like the trade offer the Lakers had. sure in hindsight it would have made sense but back then Bynum was nothing short of a prospect while Al was a more proven player.

Yea I think they wanted to do somehting based around Marion but obviously that wasn't happening. I think Amare is quite a bit better than Jefferson though, he's a guy that can thrive without being fed touches, in the pick and roll game on off lobs for example. I think Amare would be a really nice fit with this current wolves team.

Yea fair enough on that 2nd point, Bynum and Odom was the same package that was being tossed around in deals for lesser players than KG. I still think a GM with some forsight would be able to see that Bynum was a pretty good prospect, and that Odom and his 14 million expiring could be flipped for a very good rebuilding package.

It's hard to argue this point when I don't know exactly what other deals were on the table, but there are a lot of rumored proposals that I would have preferred over what the Wolves got. Not a big Monta Ellis fan but I would have liked the Biedrins+Ellis deal if that was being offered. Tyson Chandler plus the 2nd overall pick would have been good but McHale likely would have messed up with that pick.

[shrink]

..... if the conditions of the clippers pick are met, the clippers are first, in line, but if wasn't outside of top 10, then the Celtics had priority until protection of Clipper pick ended.

Wrong. Clippers dealt for a 2006 pick. That pick was protected, but it is still property of the Clippers. No matter if the original team (Minnesota, in this case) gets to keep the pick, it cannot deal it to another team because it is the Clippers' property.

klomp's right here. The protections on the pick even said specifically that it would be conveyed two years after the LAC pick, if it met the further protections that MIN put in the deal.

And or those people that want to be technical, the Stepien rule says that you can't make a trade that has your fans having to wait two years before they get to make a first round pick. Many people think its "your" pick, but an unprotected pick from another team (even a bad one), would allow your team to trade away your own team's future consecutive picks. To eliminate any other myths about the rule, I should also mention that this is all about what your team owes. You can draft a player, trade him, and then trade next year's draft pick. You just can't owe two consecutive, if you don't have a guaranteed first round pick in the next 2 drafts.

[john2jer]

Pioneer press FORGOT ABOUT KEY PARTS OF THE KG TRADE.

We got back our - the wolves- first round pick. It brought us Love and Miller.

Miller was half of what got us Rubio [Miller and Foye for rights to #5 pick which got Rubio].

The KG trade also brought cap space [Ratliff contract], which we haven't used yet.

So the Boston trade brought us:

Jefferson
Gomes
Love and
half of Rubio
cap space to be used next summer

Thats not bad, but you won't see that in that article....

Good lord your reading comprehension is terrible. You're wrong, and I already explained before you popped off with more of your garbage. The stipulation on the pick we owed the Celtics was that it was to be given to Boston 2 years AFTER we gave a pick to the Clippers, and if we didn't by the end of the 2012 1st round, it would become a 2012 second rounder.

Well, since we haven't given a pick to the Clippers yet, then no, the KG trade had absolutely nothing to do with LOVE or FLYNN. Assuming the impossible doesn't happen this year, and we somehow are better than 10th worst and have to give our 2010 pick to the Clippers, then the pick we received back from the Celtics was a 2012 2nd round pick.

The reason why you won't see that in the article, even though it's a bad article, is cause the crap you posted isn't true.

[Wolves2011]

Pioneer press FORGOT ABOUT KEY PARTS OF THE KG TRADE.

We got back our - the wolves- first round pick. It brought us Love and Miller.

Miller was half of what got us Rubio [Miller and Foye for rights to #5 pick which got Rubio].

The KG trade also brought cap space [Ratliff contract], which we haven't used yet.

So the Boston trade brought us:

Jefferson
Gomes
Love and
half of Rubio
cap space to be used next summer

Thats not bad, but you won't see that in that article....

Good lord your reading comprehension is terrible. You're wrong, and I already explained before you popped off with more of your garbage. The stipulation on the pick we owed the Celtics was that it was to be given to Boston 2 years AFTER we gave a pick to the Clippers, and if we didn't by the end of the 2012 1st round, it would become a 2012 second rounder.

Well, since we haven't given a pick to the Clippers yet, then no, the KG trade had absolutely nothing to do with LOVE or FLYNN. Assuming the impossible doesn't happen this year, and we somehow are better than 10th worst and have to give our 2010 pick to the Clippers, then the pick we received back from the Celtics was a 2012 2nd round pick.

The reason why you won't see that in the article, even though it's a bad article, is cause the crap you posted isn't true.

yes, I know I'm a dummy... you are right in this instance.... Its not reading comprehension... its lack of time time on my part and sometimes, poor writing by others....but go ahead, keep up the name calling....

There is a word. Learn its meaning. Have a little "class".

[C.lupus]

As it stands today the trade boils down to KG for Big Al, Gomes, Ellington, and cap space.

[john2jer]

yes, I know I'm a dummy... you are right in this instance.... Its not reading comprehension... its lack of time time on my part and sometimes, poor writing by others....but go ahead, keep up the name calling....

There is a word. Learn its meaning. Have a little "class".

Poor writing? I explained it like 4 posts up from yours and you missed it or skipped it because it didn't fit your argument.

And class? I graduated from college 7 years ago, I'm done with class.

[Wolves2011]

yes, I know I'm a dummy... you are right in this instance.... Its not reading comprehension... its lack of time time on my part and sometimes, poor writing by others....but go ahead, keep up the name calling....

There is a word. Learn its meaning. Have a little "class".

Poor writing? I explained it like 4 posts up from yours and you missed it or skipped it because it didn't fit your argument.

And class? I graduated from college 7 years ago, I'm done with class.

Was "name calling" a required course in your school or an elective?

Wouldn't it be nice if people showed a modicum of mutual respect?

[john2jer]

yes, I know I'm a dummy... you are right in this instance.... Its not reading comprehension... its lack of time time on my part and sometimes, poor writing by others....but go ahead, keep up the name calling....

There is a word. Learn its meaning. Have a little "class".

Poor writing? I explained it like 4 posts up from yours and you missed it or skipped it because it didn't fit your argument.

And class? I graduated from college 7 years ago, I'm done with class.

Was "name calling" a required course in your school or an elective?

Wouldn't it be nice if people showed a modicum of mutual respect?

I tried to minor in it, but I just didn't have enough hours available in my day to get the extra classes in, and apparently they don't offer online classes for that. Funny, that would have been perfectly fitting for here. Sorry.

Respect can definitely be shown. It just gets completely annoying when you have two posters on this board that are rampant in their anti-Wolves agenda and fuel most of their garbage with falsehoods and misinformation because either they don't understand or the truth doesn't fit their schtick. It's difficult to have legit conversations with those that find the truth inconvenient.

[Wolves2011]

Respect can definitely be shown. It just gets completely annoying when you have two posters on this board that are rampant in their anti-Wolves agenda and fuel most of their garbage with falsehoods and misinformation because either they don't understand or the truth doesn't fit their schtick. It's difficult to have legit conversations with those that find the truth inconvenient.

First of all, I'm a RABID Wolves fan. I wouldn't spend so much time here, if I wasn't.

I post what I honestly see when I watch games and questions that I honestly have about the team, because I want the Wolves to do well. If I see mistakes or problems, I leave my poms poms at home and ask the tough questions.

If you disagree with me thats fine. But don't for one minute believe that I don't have the wolves best interests at heart.

[john2jer]

Respect can definitely be shown. It just gets completely annoying when you have two posters on this board that are rampant in their anti-Wolves agenda and fuel most of their garbage with falsehoods and misinformation because either they don't understand or the truth doesn't fit their schtick. It's difficult to have legit conversations with those that find the truth inconvenient.

First of all, I'm a RABID Wolves fan. I wouldn't spend so much time here, if I wasn't.

I post what I honestly see when I watch games and questions that I honestly have about the team, because I want the Wolves to do well. If I see mistakes or problems, I leave my pomps pomps at home and ask the tough questions.

If you disagree with me thats fine. But don't for one minute believe that I don't have the wolves best interests at heart.

So why would you try tossing Love or Flynn into the KG trade?

[Wolves2011]

Respect can definitely be shown. It just gets completely annoying when you have two posters on this board that are rampant in their anti-Wolves agenda and fuel most of their garbage with falsehoods and misinformation because either they don't understand or the truth doesn't fit their schtick. It's difficult to have legit conversations with those that find the truth inconvenient.

First of all, I'm a RABID Wolves fan. I wouldn't spend so much time here, if I wasn't.

I post what I honestly see when I watch games and questions that I honestly have about the team, because I want the Wolves to do well. If I see mistakes or problems, I leave my pomps pomps at home and ask the tough questions.

If you disagree with me thats fine. But don't for one minute believe that I don't have the wolves best interests at heart.

So why would you try tossing Love or Flynn into the KG trade?

I wasn't tossing them in. Not giving them away. I thought we had gotten use out of the first round pick we had gotten back from Boston to get one of them. It appears to be a mistake on my part.

[I say appears, because I don't know enough to definitively say, you are right. But the evidence at this point doesn't support what I originally thought.]

[john2jer]

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball ... is_blount/

Here's a link talking about it. Tough finding a place that lays out the terms of the trade, but I'm positive on what it actually was. We discussed it a billion times around here in the last couple years.

The article I posted says "likely to be conveyed in 2008" because the belief was the Clippers would get our 2006 pick, but we tanked at the end of the season to prevent that. We had just traded the Clippers that first round pick the summer before.