11/8 Hornets @ Lakers 6:30 PM FSW**SPecial Guest Star** 18+

[crazyeights]

Oh all you were doing was stating facts. And you didn't compare him to Duncan and Howard...your facts did. "...one of three players to average a double-double each of the past five seasons. The other two? Howard and Duncan."

Hm. Yeah, I guess I was way off when I thought you were comparing them. Actually I wasn't comparing them, I was pointing out the fact that your use of fact was poor. You were attempting to show Okafor's value by pointing out amongst all the players in the league only 3 have done what he's done.

Now, me being the guy who can't comprehend your genius, I figured hey wow that's neat, look at that, he's in an exclusive class. Then I happened to check up the facts, the thing we're all so concerned about, and they showed me something else that was pretty neat.

Hey! "The other two? Howard and Duncan." <---- Yeah those guys right there! Guess what? They average twice as many points as Okafor! (Along with rebounds that don't just barely tip over the 10rpg qualifier for this wonderful fact of yours). Then again, going back to my original post, when I was talking about Okafor's lack of post ability. Great! He has an average post up game. But guess what? Last time I checked, a team needs some sort of post-up threat to be successful and spread the floor. I mean without spacing, how is CP3 going to create anything? No you're right though, we must be concerned with facts, this is all nonsense. I mean Okafor can't be that bad, can he? All the plus and minuses, he must be great. Ever figure the fact his plus and minus is so high because the Hornets have no talent? Of course if you get an "average" post up player in the game and a solid defender, he should make a lot more impact than say Hilton Armstrong.

Sorry buddy, but facts don't tell the entire story. Wow he averaged 10 rebounds on the number 10 defense. Yippie! Your saving grace. Well all must be well in the Orange and Blue...oh wait they traded that guy for another disappointment.

Want a fact? Try going to the Bobcats wikipedia page. Search the word: playoff. It's there 3 times and every time to explain how they hope to reach their first playoff berth!



But don't worry, they were so good the past few years, top 10 in defense! Can't believe they got rid of Okafor! What could have been.

"Facts" don't mean anything when you're taking something as asinine as double-doubles in the past 5 years.

Sorry, but I'm pretty sure 30/30 GMs would take someone like KG over Okafor all day every day. But by all means, you're an Okafor fan, let's agree to disagree, sorry he was traded the Bobcats, and please cling to facts when they defy the common sense that Okafor is just an okay player.

[microfib4thewin]

No one would use the 'exclusive company' argument unless they want to implicitly create a comparison. It's like the time when people put Durant in the same category as MJ and Bird because he averaged over a certain amount of points and a certain amount of boards. It really doesn't matter that Okafor did something that only Howard and Duncan was able to do, he's not in the same tier as those players and there is nothing exceptional about averaging a double double for 5 years. I suppose it makes sense if you want us to applaud him for staying healthy, but that's really the only thing that prevented more centers from getting consecutive double double seasons, Yao and Shaq would have done it for sure, Chandler may have problem scoring in double digits for 5 years but he could probably do it. Lacking healthy centers had more to do with this than Okafor himself.

[hourockman]

FYI: More Hornets discussion has taken place in this thread than takes place on their entire forum.

[thruthefire]

Someone told me having a discussion on the Lakers' board is impossible, and now I believe it.

No one would use the 'exclusive company' argument unless they want to implicitly create a comparison.

Not true.

It really doesn't matter that Okafor did something that only Howard and Duncan was able to do, he's not in the same tier as those players and there is nothing exceptional about averaging a double double for 5 years.

NEVER said he was, and that's your opinion.

I suppose it makes sense if you want us to applaud him for staying healthy, but that's really the only thing that prevented more centers from getting consecutive double double seasons, Yao and Shaq would have done it for sure, Chandler may have problem scoring in double digits for 5 years but he could probably do it. Lacking healthy centers had more to do with this than Okafor himself.

Okafor hasn't been perfectly healthy year in and year out, yet he still got it done.

[thruthefire]

Oh all you were doing was stating facts. And you didn't compare him to Duncan and Howard...your facts did. "...one of three players to average a double-double each of the past five seasons. The other two? Howard and Duncan."

Thanks for leaving out the last part. I'll post it, since you didn't: "But, yeah, he's Kwame Brown."

The point was not to put Okafor in a class with Duncan and Howard (anyone who watches basketball knows he's not as good as those two), but to show how far off your take was. You know, this little piece of trash, "really all Emeka has going for him is the fact that he wasn't the first pick in 2004, because if he was then we'd a lot more Kwame comparisons."

In the end, I accomplished that. Through facts, of course.

Hm. Yeah, I guess I was way off when I thought you were comparing them. Actually I wasn't comparing them, I was pointing out the fact that your use of fact was poor. You were attempting to show Okafor's value by pointing out amongst all the players in the league only 3 have done what he's done.

Thanks for letting me know what I was trying to show. BTW, what's wrong with that? Does he have to be a superstar to be better than Kwame Brown? I'm glad you're acknowledging you were wrong, though.

Then again, going back to my original post, when I was talking about Okafor's lack of post ability. Great! He has an average post up game. But guess what? Last time I checked, a team needs some sort of post-up threat to be successful and spread the floor. I mean without spacing, how is CP3 going to create anything?

Oh, the irony.

BTW, crazyeights, Howard doesn't "pull down" 20 points, either.

[crazyeights]

Look Larry,

"Pull down" was used as a figure of speech. I didn't realize you were so picky, but judging from your avatar I should have known otherwise.

Though you should probably check the OP, because what I said about Kwame Brown was that if Okafor was drafted at the #1, then the media would naturally have compared them more. In my opinion what happened to Kwame Brown was wrong. The kid didn't draft himself, he had a fragile ego and never recovered. Love to see Okafor's career today had he been under the same scrutiny, would also love for Kwame to have another disappointing prospect take the limelight away. I recall a lot of hype for Okafor, but I was never a huge fan.

Also the joke's on you. Because even if I was comparing him to Kwame, it wouldn't be as much as an insult as you seem to think. Kwame Brown could have been a very good player. He was a great post defender (much like Okafor), a great athlete (IMO unlike Okafor), though Kwame's post up game displayed of his lack of confidence (and small hands...which might have been related). But having watched Kwame for his years with the Lakers, I saw that he was a game changer and a key to Laker success. Maybe just how you feel about Okafor.

Really my post, if anything, I was speaking to how both were disappointments. But as I see we're going to play favorites here, there's absolutely nothing constructive that'll come out of it. Sorry if I touched some nerve, but you need to chill about your boy Okafor. You say you can't get a conversation on the Lakers board, well....IIRC you came in with:

"Hard to imagine a Lakers' fan would be saying this considering that the Bobcats have owned the Lakers the past couple of seasons."

Ummm....so I was not talking to you when this started and you start a "conversation" with that? Get over yourself, Toucan Sam.

There was never anything constructive about what you were doing. You are of the mindset that well if I can post an arbitrary stat over an arbitrary amount of time then hey it shows he's better than Kwame Brown. Cool, congrats! Only you used facts (which do not tell the entire story) to back up something I was never arguing.

If you want to have a real conversation about what I was actually saying, then tell me how the Hornets are a solid team. How they are built well? Is Byron Scott going to get fired? Do they have enough post-up threats to be successful? What's wrong with their guard rotation? That's what I was talking about. The entire situation. You're getting us sidetracked on semantics, the Charlotte Bobcats, and Kwame Brown.

[thruthefire]

I didn't realize you were so picky, but judging from your avatar I should have known otherwise.

More pickier than Kobe, for sure, but no more than Sasha.

Though you should probably check the OP, because what I said about Kwame Brown was that if Okafor was drafted at the #1, then the media would naturally have compared them more. In my opinion what happened to Kwame Brown was wrong. The kid didn't draft himself, he had a fragile ego and never recovered. Love to see Okafor's career today had he been under the same scrutiny, would also love for Kwame to have another disappointing prospect take the limelight away. I recall a lot of hype for Okafor, but I was never a huge fan.

There is no way the media would compare the two. For one, taking Kwame Brown opened up the criticism once again of taking high school kids that high. If Okafor was the first pick, he'd be the accomplished college player being taken over the unproven high school kid. Who thought Dwight Howard would be as good as he is? Even if you thought Okafor would be better than he is right now, no one every saw him as what Dwight Howard is today, so he would be the wrong pick regardless, right? I guess, if anything, you could say it'd be like Bogut being taken over D-Will and Paul.

The biggest problem with this is that Kwame's never been as productive as Emeka. The media wouldn't compare a 14/11/2 player to a 7/6 guy. Even looking past the raw numbers, Kwame's never been as productive in his minutes as Okafor's been in his. It's just a bad example all the way around, IMO.

You've gotten into hypothetical situations, but I'm sorry, Kwame sucks now because Kwame sucks. It has nothing to do with his fragile mind at this point. He's not under the bright lights of LA, yet he can't even beat out Ben Wallace for the starting spot.

Numbers wise, I doubt anything would change with Okafor if he was drafted by a team like the Lakers. He might show a little more passion for the game, though.

Also the joke's on you. Because even if I was comparing him to Kwame, it wouldn't be as much as an insult as you seem to think. Kwame Brown could have been a very good player. He was a great post defender (much like Okafor), a great athlete (IMO unlike Okafor), though Kwame's post up game displayed of his lack of confidence (and small hands...which might have been related). But having watched Kwame for his years with the Lakers, I saw that he was a game changer and a key to Laker success. Maybe just how you feel about Okafor.

Come on, dude, comparing someone to Kwame is an insult. IDK about how much of a better athlete Kwame is, since he's always been a poor rebounder relative to Okafor.

Really my post, if anything, I was speaking to how both were disappointments.

I don't think Okafor's been a disappointment, and definitely not anywhere close to being in the same grouping as Kwame in that regard.

There was never anything constructive about what you were doing. You are of the mindset that well if I can post an arbitrary stat over an arbitrary amount of time then hey it shows he's better than Kwame Brown. Cool, congrats! Only you used facts (which do not tell the entire story) to back up something I was never arguing.

The point of my post wasn't to argue that he's better than Kwame. I was just stating why I thought you were undervaluing Okafor. Don't see how it wasn't constructive ... but, you're right, the "Bobcats owning the Lakers" comment was uncalled for.

If you want to have a real conversation about what I was actually saying, then tell me how the Hornets are a solid team. How they are built well? Is Byron Scott going to get fired? Do they have enough post-up threats to be successful? What's wrong with their guard rotation? That's what I was talking about. The entire situation. You're getting us sidetracked on semantics, the Charlotte Bobcats, and Kwame Brown.

Didn't you write about a few topics in that original post? I just wanted to address this part regarding Okafor:

Okafor? Not a fan. Sure you could justify it with well hey he's good at post D or some crap like that, but that's just a euphemism for the guy has no post game. Never will be a two-way player, really all Emeka has going for him is the fact that he wasn't the first pick in 2004, because if he was then we'd a lot more Kwame comparisons.

I disagreed with what you said in this portion, so I replied to this portion.

Now we've (I've?) really gotten off track. My only point was I thought your opinion of Okafor was flawed. I posted some stuff to show why I thought so. That's it. Didn't have anything to do with the Lakers, Hornets, Bobcats, Brown, Howard, or Duncan ... just Okafor. We went off on tangents once you acted like I was comparing him to Howard and Duncan.

You disagree still, which is fine. Nice dialogue, regardless.