Amare is still a bad defender

[Jimmy76]

It could just be the small sample size but we're holding everyone to near average PER except at PF

PG:15
SG:15.5
SF:17.1
PF:23.2
C:16.6

I think Amare still has some work to do unless our backup PF's are just getting murdered

http://www.82games.com/0910/0910PHO5.HTM

edit:also take a look at net PER

PG:+7.9
SG:+2.2
SF:-.7
PF:-8.3
C:+1.8

our frontcourt is weak but our backcourt is killing

[RunDogGun]

He is actually trying at times, which is huge compared to years past. But he does need a lot of work. Lou is actually doing a good job averaging the same amount of blocks as Amare in less than half the time.

[Krush32]

Cant put it all on stat. The way the suns play defense off the pick and roll Amare's man is the helpside defenders responibility. Also, he doesnt contest every shot like he used to, and get put in foul trouble. He's doing a good job of making the other teams big man shoot over the top of him, so the suns can inbound the ball and run. That eliminates part of Amare's foul proness.

[WTFsunsFTW]

Amare is fundamentally flawed and if there werent any fundamental changes so far I dont think I will be holding my breath

he is what he is

[Kerrsed]

he is what he is

.......and if you want to crown his ass then crown him!!!!

[Qwigglez]

he is what he is

.......and if you want to crown his ass then crown him!!!!





LMAO.

[WTFsunsFTW]

footwork still lacking, and I really think his eye injury has affected his hand-eye coordination. He doesnt have a feel for the ball like he used to.

[tsherkin]

His scoring efficiency would be fine if he wasn't laming out at the foul line for under 69% FT... He's still shooting 55% FG, which is actually better than last year.

[TASTIC]

There are A LOT of bad ft% starts this year. Monta Ellis, JRich, Calderon, Rondo are ALL struggling mightily. I expect Amare to have 2-3 games where he goes something like 20-25 and then he'll be fine. He seems to be rushing them slightly more than last year

[Fo-Real]

Amare has taken more charges this year and blocked more shots than all of last year (just kidding i know he hasnt, but he is more active) Who cares, he is doing something atleast.

[WTFsunsFTW]

I care, and he isnt doing enough for $17M

[tsherkin]

There are A LOT of bad ft% starts this year. Monta Ellis, JRich, Calderon, Rondo are ALL struggling mightily. I expect Amare to have 2-3 games where he goes something like 20-25 and then he'll be fine. He seems to be rushing them slightly more than last year

No doubt, no doubt. I'm just saying, he's shooting pretty poorly at the line right now and that's the major reason his offensive efficiency isn't anything special because he IS still shooting 55% FG.

If Amare starts shooting the 80%+ he's average over the last three seasons, he'll add another 0.7 ppg or so to his scoring average, taking him to nearly 20 ppg, which is fine, given that his shot rate hasn't been this low since 06-07, when he averaged *drumroll* 20.4 ppg.

If you want him to score more, he needs more touches, even if he was finishing his FTs at an acceptable rate.

As far as rebounding, though, he's only had one season worse than this one in terms of per-minute rebounding, and that was last year (and that was alongside Shaq). He's piss-poor on the glass this season, for which the only excuse is...

Amare is a lazy-ass rebounder who relies on athleticism to get his boards, and so he's not getting to his spots as quickly as he used to.

The turnover and foul rates, I'm sure those will iron themselves out as he shakes off the rust. The FT%, I'm sure will change. His jumper is certainly fine.

Defensively speaking, it's true that he's taking more charges. It's also true that the net result of this is that he's producing FEWER defensive plays than previously in his career aside from last year.

He's averaging 2.38 defensive plays (steals, blocks, charges) per game this year. 2.09 last year. 2.99 and 2.49 in the two previous seasons. His two best seasons came with him playing under 34 mpg.

Amare's the same as ever. Yeah, he's taking more charges... which is covering the fact that he's doing a lot less in general. We'll see how this trend develops as he gets back into game shape, of course, and as the season wears on, but I have little to say about Stoudemire that hasn't been true in the past as well. He's an uninspiring waste of talent in some regards, who reminds me very much of Derrick Coleman, except that he decided he would be good on offense and has worked hard at that (which Coleman never really did).

[chriscringle95]

I don't care what the numbers say the guy is playing very good basketball and averaged 19.4 pts and 10.0 rebounds during a very tough east coast swing (last five games). Suns were 4-1. Those are the numbers that matter, WINS.

Yes he deserves the max contract and he will get it one way or the other. Suns should just sign him already but I know they are going to blow it in the off season.

I have a question though: Who outside of Garnett and Duncan are "great" or even good defenders at the PF position in the NBA?

I'm talking stars, not Kurt Thomas types.

Bosh? Boozer? Gasol? Nowitzki?

Then after that ask yourself which one of these guys would come to the Suns and make a huge difference over what Amare brings to the table?

[JohnVancouver]

Cant put it all on stat. The way the suns play defense off the pick and roll Amare's man is the helpside defenders responibility. Also, he doesnt contest every shot like he used to, and get put in foul trouble. He's doing a good job of making the other teams big man shoot over the top of him, so the suns can inbound the ball and run. That eliminates part of Amare's foul proness.

Good point - last night I noticed how Amar'e was challenging and stepping out n every PnR - help has to come when he does that.

[JohnVancouver]

tsherkin - I'm flummoxed by your numbers. Amar'e is doin gless than before? 'Cause that's not what I see - for god's sake I saw him box out KG and about fell off the couch. Even at less than top from he's a 20/10 player right now, which is the magic number people throw around when they try to justify someone like ZBo.
Every game I see Amar'e getting faster, stronger, more decisive, and playing balls-out at both ends.
Am I wrong?

[realsunsfan]

tsherkin - I'm flummoxed by your numbers. Amar'e is doin gless than before? 'Cause that's not what I see - for god's sake I saw him box out KG and about fell off the couch. Even at less than top from he's a 20/10 player right now, which is the magic number people throw around when they try to justify someone like ZBo.
Every game I see Amar'e getting faster, stronger, more decisive, and playing balls-out at both ends.
Am I wrong?

No you are not wrong, actually you are spot on!! But he will not get any respect for that, they will just find some other stat to justify putting him and the rest of the Suns down...

[Frank Lee]

Number don't lie.... but they do not always tell the truth


Side note... anyone watch that vid from Dudley linked through another post.... he was talking with Frye and Frye said, '.... and Stat grabbin huge boards....' Amare chimed in from the back, 'Hey, I only had 6 you know...

At least it is on his mind'

[tsherkin]

Cant put it all on stat. The way the suns play defense off the pick and roll Amare's man is the helpside defenders responibility. Also, he doesnt contest every shot like he used to, and get put in foul trouble. He's doing a good job of making the other teams big man shoot over the top of him, so the suns can inbound the ball and run. That eliminates part of Amare's foul proness.

It's not all on STAT, he's just one of the issues. His foul-prone nature has actually increased this year, so that's a zero-sum benefit. He's actually above his career average in terms of fouls per minute, and looks like he did in 07 and 08 in terms of rate of fouling. I actually would prefer that he'd contest more, because he's already foul-prone, he might as well do some good contesting shots.

I don't care what the numbers say the guy is playing very good basketball and averaged 19.4 pts and 10.0 rebounds during a very tough east coast swing (last five games). Suns were 4-1. Those are the numbers that matter, WINS.

I said it in another thread, but Phoenix is feasting on an EXCEPTIONALLY weak schedule right now and they are playing poor defense. Those wins are nice, but the current record is not indicative of team caliber. The Suns are shooting an ABSURD percentage from downtown and are killing teams but it's not something they can maintain, and the schedule will get harder as the season moves on.

Amare's looking good on offense aside from at the line, and as I said before, if he gets back in line with his FT% from the past few years, he's going to be basically a 20 ppg scorer again, at which point the only thing holding him back is shooting volume, which will probably come with game shape and further into the season.

I have a question though: Who outside of Garnett and Duncan are "great" or even good defenders at the PF position in the NBA?

Bosh? Boozer? Gasol? Nowitzki?

Then after that ask yourself which one of these guys would come to the Suns and make a huge difference over what Amare brings to the table?

Gasol, definitely. Bosh, no. Boozer is almost as bad as Amare. Nowitzki is a better defender, but he's not a great defender by any stretch.

Josh Smith would make a big difference defensively. Tyrus Thomas would, too, actually, not that he could start in Amare's place, but I guess he's more of a Kurt Thomas type. Kenyon Martin, does he count?

Jermaine O'neal comes to mind, as dp Elton Brand and Rasheed Wallace (though I guess Sheed is a KT type these days).

There aren't a lot of great defensive 4s, but there are many more than the above-listed group who are noticeably better than Amare. Stoudemire looks better so far than he has at any point recently, but that's not actually saying much, because he's still nothing special on defense. LaMarcus Aldridge comes to mind as another guy who's noticeably superior on defense.

I'd love to see him start by actually rebounding well on the defensive glass. Right now, he's a little bit better than an average season from Andrea Bargnani on the defensive glass, which is mediocre to average. He's right where he has been post-surgery on the offensive glass, so that's no worry, nor has it ever been, but he could do a lot more on the defensive glass.

Then I'd like to see him maintain his current rate of taking charges and I'd like to see him be a better help defender. I guess he's trying to do that now, which is laudable, but it's only taken him 7+ years to start doing this... (-1 for the year off he had from surgeries, of course).

The Suns as a whole have definitely improved on defense from last year, but they were the 5th-worst defense in the league last year; ANY improvement will look like a lot, and they're still below average now, even after said improvement. They look better on offense than they did under Porter, and about the same as they did last year once Gentry took over. 7 Seconds or Shaq worked exceptionally well and the team with Frye looks like it hasn't missed a beat.

And in 12 games, if Jason Richardson is still shooting 57% from downtown, I will eat my hat, so we'll see where the team is once percentages regress towards the mean.

[tsherkin]

Phoenix's offense looks good. The thing is, people are acting as if the team we've seen so far is the team we'll seen on the balance of the season, and that makes no sense.

Light schedule and incredibly hot shooting do not last over the duration of an 82-game season.

The Suns under D'Antoni shot (as a team) 40%+ from downtown 0 times, though they were at 39% to 39.9% every year. They shot a little over 38% last year.

They're shooting 47% so far this season.

It's just common sense that this offense is going to deflate a little bit, because there's no way they are going to defy percentages and shoot this way all year. They will continue to be good, and they will continue to be an elite team. They will win more than 50 games this year and given the way the pieces fit, they may well win 55 to 60 games in the regular season if they can continue to draw upon strong offensive production and healthy throughout the season.

Can they win a round or two in the playoffs? Sure, it seems possible, even likely. There aren't a whole lot of teams in the West who look a lot better.

But we'll have to wait and see how the offensive regression (which is definitely going to come, no questions, unequivocally on its way) will affect the team's winning percentage, how they do against the Lakers, if the Hornets stop sucking, and what happens with the Spurs.

There are teams out there, too, that match up well with the Suns because they can exploit Phoenix's lack of post defense.

In case anyone was wondering, here are the stats on the frontcourt starters for Phoenix's opponents in the 8 games thus far:

Clippers: Camby 23/11, Kaman 22/9, both shooting 58.8% or better from the floor
Warriors: 8/10/4 from Biedrins, 4/4 FG. Don Nelson hates big men, so there weren't any getting touches
Wolves: 21/8/4 from Jefferson on a bum knee as he comes back from a torn ACL; terrible FG%, but that had to do with him blowing chippies, not the defense
Heat: 14 points on 7/12 shooting from JO in 28 min
Magic: 25/6 on 64%+ shooting in 23 minutes, 20/10 from Ryan Anderson on 57% shooting, 8/8 from Gortat off the bench, 12 points on 75% shooting from Brandon Bass
Celtics: 26/8/4 from Garnett, 12/7 from Perkins in 24 min
Wizards: 10/10 from Haywood, 20/5 from Blatche
Sixers: 20/8 from Speights on about 62% FG in 29 min, 8/5 from Dalembert in 18 min

The Suns haven't been doing an especially good job on frontcourt players because they don't have good interior defense... and they also get burned by shooting bigs (like Bass and Anderson).

This is a trend that will continue, and when that happens and the offense tails off (even a little bit, it's not going to be that suddenly Phoenix can't score or anything dumb like that), then there is going to be a real challenge for this team to maintain it's current pace.

I mean, obviously the Suns aren't going to keep their current pace, which is 71 or 72 wins. They aren't that good, and only one team has been, in any case.

So there will be the natural regression of the offense, the increasing schedule difficulty and then we'll start to get a better idea of what this team can achieve. The game against the Lakers (sans Bynum and Gasol, likely) should be interesting, for example.

[aIvin adams]

i think i heard an artery pop