Please Explain Boston's Defensive System

[augustine]

Hi All,

I'm a Raptors fan, and our coach has instituted a new defensive system which is not working out well. This has caused a number of us to try to figure out what a good defensive system would look like, and obviously Boston's system works very well. What are the defensive principles that your team adheres to? Any comments are appreciated.

[captain green]

I'd tell ya but I'd have to kill ya 1st and I don't kill people..
jk....

[SonicYouth34]

No easy looks really. We have great man up defenders in Perk/Rondo/Pierce/Sheed and great team defenders in Allen/Garnett/Daniels, which make it easier.

Perk and Garnett control the paint and we use a lot of help defense to keep the other team shooting jumpers.

Toronto doesn't have the personnel to be a good defensive team. If Bosh had someone like Perk next to him, the defense would be ten times better. Derozen/Wright are fine on the wings but Calderon is terrible and if the D has to collapse because he can't guard his man, then the whole system is useless.

Don't take that as an attack, I was just trying to help you.

[ParticleMan]

1. Acquire KG.

2. um, see #1.

[ParticleMan]

seriously tho, boston's D is almost like a matchup zone, where the team D rolls to the strong side. that way there is always a 2nd line of defense if someone gets beaten on the perimeter. it also allows perimeter guys to run out at shooters, because they know help is right behind them. particularly, our bigs like perk really don't stray too far from the lane, except maybe to show on a pick and roll. also the perimeter defenders switch a lot, particularly the swingmen and even KG, so that sometimes we get KG playing PGs etc. but that only works because of our personnel.

really, it's a lot more personnel than scheme imo. everyone credits Thibodeau but Thib has said that the defensive scheme is pretty much the same one that Doc had before Thib got here. The difference is that Thib came in at the same time as KG, Ray, Posey, etc. The same scheme didn't work nearly so well with Gerald Green and Telfair out there.

the way to beat our D is easy. at least in principle. if you swing the ball from the strong to weak side quickly enough, the D can't rotate. then if you have a big man who can shoot, he will get a lot of open looks because our bigs tend to hang out in the lane. so the C's rely on the fact that (1) teams can't swing the ball fast and accurate enough, especially with guys like rondo patrolling the passing lanes, and (2) most teams don't have bigs who can shoot 20 footers. of course when we play guys like Big Z or Peckeroff or whatever his name was, we get burned, because that's basically the only kind of guy who can kill us. ORL was the same with lewis/turk at PF last year, which is why we had so much trouble with them.

[Dirty Water]

To add to your analysis Particle Man, another way to beat us is exactly what Pheonix did. Just run our bigs into the ground. A 75% healthy KG and an old sheed can't run the floor like they used to. And if you have an athletic center type like Amare he can run over Perk (except of course if he's trying to post Perk up, which Amare would fail more times than not.

[ParticleMan]

^^ definitely. i was only talking about half-court D, but of course we always have trouble with the fast athletic teams who don't let us set up our D.

[JSABleedsGreen]

If your looking to build a solid defense is not pickup or draft soft big man. In other words.....soft European bigmen who fall in love with the 3. Most big guys who have a nice touch from the outside are usually soft inside on defense. They care more for their offense than their defense....ala Bargnani (i spell that right?)....Nowitski is another one.

[sully00]

Nationality, and the ability to shoot the 3 have nothing to do with playing defense, I will pass on the Curt Schilling quote but damn.

The biggest difference between what Boston and Houston, who runs a similar system is that their guards do a good job on the glass instead of leaking out and that they are held accountable for the rotations. Even when Boston sucked playing time was determined by a players ability to function and be accountable in the defense.

For example if your PF has to run out at a shooter and someone blows the rotation behind him, say the C slides to the strong side but a little guy doesn't pick up his man you give up a lay up. If your coach isn't willing to sit that guards ass down for blowing the rotation then your probably not going to be a good defensive team.

Sure it helps to have talented defenders but Eddie House and Ray Allen have been excellent in this defensive scheme and nobody would confuse them with talented defenders. You can look at what Boston does as complicated or as simply as you want, simply they switch the pick and roll and look to deny the post and dribble penetration, if you do it well you force a lot of jump shots and if you screw it up you end up with uncontested lay ups.

I would say that the biggest key to Boston's defense is Perkins more than even Garnett or Rondo who get the hype. Perk just has the tool box to guard almost anyone on the court and blocks shots on his man as well as off and controls the defensive glass. Add to that his entire career has been built on playing defense and rebounding.

You need the talent to be the best but Avery Johnson showed what just a little bit of commitment on the defensive end can do for any team.

[augustine]

Thanks for all of your informed replies, I appreciate it. One further question. Toronto is also attempting to deny penetration (though they show on the pick and roll, they do not switch). However, when an opponent attempts to penetrate, and the help comes, the dribbler simply passes it out to someone behind the three point line and they make the open three. So, my question is: how does Boston deny the paint while still contesting threes when the dribbler kicks it out. Thanks again.

[dsorc]

Thanks for all of your informed replies, I appreciate it. One further question. Toronto is also attempting to deny penetration (though they show on the pick and roll, they do not switch). However, when an opponent attempts to penetrate, and the help comes, the dribbler simply passes it out to someone behind the three point line and they make the open three. So, my question is: how does Boston deny the paint while still contesting threes when the dribbler kicks it out. Thanks again.

That is all on effort and anticipation. The perimeter players need to spend some energy on recovering to the perimeter quickly. But in all truth, kickouts have always been hard to defend. They're designed to counter help defense. When the defense collapses it always leaves a man open so the perimeter players need to rotate quickly to ensure the free man has as little time to set up as possible. The other factor could be communication as if too many players try to help on the inside the outside becomes extra vulnerable.

[ParticleMan]

the thing the celtics D does is funnel players to one side of the floor. you always see perimeter guys strongly shading to one side or another. the idea here is to cut down passing angles on the penetration. this helps a lot with the kickouts simply by making the kickout pass quite a bit harder. so for instance, we funnel guys typically to the strong side, and then we leave the weak side shooter by himself. if the opponent can somehow make a cross-court pass while penetrating against a converging defense, you tip your hat. more likely, they will try to kick out to a shooter on the strong side, but since the C's defense is already set up that way, the shot will still be contested, which is fine.

the idea of the C's defense is basically to only give up contested long jump shots. if the other team makes them consistently over a whole game, you just tip your hat (like PHX and Jason Richardson the other night). but we can't give up any layups, or anything easy in the lane. the idea is that in the end, teams that mainly shoot long contested jumpers won't shoot much better than 40% for the game. in that case we've got a pretty good chance at winning, given our offensive talent.