Why this Rondo hate?

[SichtingLives]

Hey, way to spam the ******* thread.

[GuyClinch]

People don't hate Rondo - just his spam happy fan boys. Rondo is an excellent but still flawed player.. He isn't the best player on the team or the best since Larry Bird. Hell he isn't even better then Reggie Lewis nevermind Bird or Pierce.

[John Locke]

Some popular Rondo myths that no one has been able to prove in this thread:

1. Rondo has an attitude problem and is not coachable.

2. Rondo's work is poor.

3. Rondo is not a good defender.

And I repeat my last statement: The fact that defenses sag off him is not Rondo's fault and problem, it's Doc's problem. It's his job to utilze Rondo the right way and it's not like he has to change his style of play.

The fact is that Pierce can take some ridiculous shots and miss something that Rondo would never get away with. Pierce was allowed to make his fair share of mistakes to learn from, while Rondo was supposed to be almost 'perfect' from his second year.

The fact is that Rondo is a unique player and we should be thankful for having him on our team. I promise you this: Players love to play with him, because he thinks about his teammates first and his own shot second.

A lot of posters were WAY to critical, JUST because a couple of overely eager fans of his were went a little overboard.

[GuyClinch]

Some popular Rondo myths that no one has been able to prove in this thread:

1. Rondo has an attitude problem and is not coachable.

2. Rondo's work is poor.

3. Rondo is not a good defender.

Well with the name one would think your logic would be a bit sharper. Because we didn't "prove" Rondo has a poor attitude or work ethic - that doesn't mean he doesn't have said problems. This isn't an argument one can win. The fans simply don't have access to that kind of information.

We do know that some negative things came out in the press about how Rondo was late for games and how Doc feels Rondo is stubborn. This is where those ideas sprang up.

As for not being a "good" defender - again Rondo's defensive numbers aren't stellar. Since team defense plays a big factor I am not sure we can single out Rondo for this problem. However his PER against of 18.4 is nothing to write home about. In fact it's far and away the worst on the team right now. That might be 'scheme' related as well as related to the team defense. But the legend of Rondo the stopper is overblown. Rondo on the court doesn't stop anyone.

[tombattor]

Your comment about Rondo's lack of D intrigues me.

We have 3 sources of information that say Rondo is a top Defender - coaches, GM's and stats. But you don't like any of them?

1) Voted 2nd Team ALL NBA Defensive TEAM (so 3rd or 4th best guard defender in NBA)
[Voted by NBA coaches]

2) Voted by NBA GM's as tied for best "on the ball defender" and 4th best perimeter defender.

3) Highest defensive "win share" among all guards last season - so #1 statistically.
Note: One of only 3 guards in NBA history, along with Jordan and Kidd to ranked as high as 3rd in defensive win share. Thats all of NBA history.

Yet, the coaches, GM's and stats are meaningless to you?

Interesting!!

It's just the way I feel. And you probably don't know because you don't seem to know very much about basketball's history or NBA in general, but such studs like Damon Jones and Recasner got a multi-year deals after playing with big time stars, only to fall on their faces once they were without guys who drew double and triple teams. You also probably never heard of Kevin Gamble, but he was a classic example of a guy who made his living off of making open shots created by Larry Bird and Reggie Lewis' double teams.

But then you are the guy who thinks playing with Pierce, KG and Ray is the reason why Rondo isn't dropping 40-30-20 every night, so enough said.

[Wolves2011]

Some popular Rondo myths that no one has been able to prove in this thread:

1. Rondo has an attitude problem and is not coachable.

2. Rondo's work is poor.

3. Rondo is not a good defender.

Well with the name one would think your logic would be a bit sharper. Because we didn't "prove" Rondo has a poor attitude or work ethic - that doesn't mean he doesn't have said problems. This isn't an argument one can win. The fans simply don't have access to that kind of information.

We do know that some negative things came out in the press about how Rondo was late for games and how Doc feels Rondo is stubborn. This is where those ideas sprang up.

As for not being a "good" defender - again Rondo's defensive numbers aren't stellar. Since team defense plays a big factor I am not sure we can single out Rondo for this problem. However his PER against of 18.4 is nothing to write home about. In fact it's far and away the worst on the team right now. That might be 'scheme' related as well as related to the team defense. But the legend of Rondo the stopper is overblown. Rondo on the court doesn't stop anyone.

I don't understand how people can still talk about Rondo's defense.

The Coaches, GM's and stats all say the same thing. Rondo is an elite defender.

Somewhere between the 4th best guard defender and one of the best in NBA history.

Coaches - voted Rondo 2nd Team All NBA defense

GM's - voted Rondo tied for best on ball defender and 4th perimeter defender.

Stats- Ranked #1 in defensive win share for guards. [Was ranked #3 overall for defensive win share, just the third time that has happened in NBA history (no guard has been ranked #1 or #2) The other guards ranked that high in NBA history, Jordan and Kidd.

[MyInsatiableOne]

The only think Rondo really does need to work on is his shot...otherwise he's as perfect a fit at PG as we'll ever have on this team!

[tombattor]

The only think Rondo really does need to work on is his shot...otherwise he's as perfect a fit at PG as we'll ever have on this team!

Yeah. With his athleticism and quickness, if he could shoot, he'd be an allstar. But that's a big if.

[Wolves2011]

The only think Rondo really does need to work on is his shot...otherwise he's as perfect a fit at PG as we'll ever have on this team!

Yeah. With his athleticism and quickness, if he could shoot, he'd be an allstar. But that's a big if.

he's already an allstar - read the article on the realGM site on the Rondo signing - says he's top 5 PG in the NBA.

If he hit his shots he'd be a "superstar" up there with Lebron, Kobe, CP3, Wade etc.. ..

[sully00]

The only think Rondo really does need to work on is his shot...otherwise he's as perfect a fit at PG as we'll ever have on this team!

Yeah. With his athleticism and quickness, if he could shoot, he'd be an allstar. But that's a big if.

he's already an allstar - read the article on the realGM site on the Rondo signing - says he's top 5 PG in the NBA.

If he hit his shots he'd be a "superstar" up there with Lebron, Kobe, CP3, Wade etc.. ..

No he is not an all star what the hell is wrong with you? The article on the RealGM site is no different than other post on these boards. You are basically the source of what some are calling "Rondo hate" you make ridiculous statements like this and then people feel like they have to respond the dude is shooting 37% from the FT line if one of they guys on your superstar list were doing that it would be national dilemma. You need to get a grip. Your an All Star when you play in the game and your a superstar when everyone just assumes your in the game Rondo is neither.

[captain green]

The only think Rondo really does need to work on is his shot...otherwise he's as perfect a fit at PG as we'll ever have on this team!

Yeah. With his athleticism and quickness, if he could shoot, he'd be an allstar. But that's a big if.

he's already an allstar - read the article on the realGM site on the Rondo signing - says he's top 5 PG in the NBA.

If he hit his shots he'd be a "superstar" up there with Lebron, Kobe, CP3, Wade etc.. ..

HE IS NOT AN ALL STAR NOR A GREAT FT SHOOTER OR 3POINT SHOOTER.

[Cyclical]

You'll rarely find anyone who "hates" Rondo. I don't see much Rondo hate on here at all. What I do see is a response to a couple of posters who paint Rondo as the second coming Jesus Christ -- people are simply pointing out some obvious flaws in his game. No more, no less.

90+% of Celtics fans (including myself) LOVE Rondo, while still recognizing what he needs to work on to become a true perennial all-star. If he didn't have all that talent people wouldn't even bother commenting on it. The fact that we know he can get even better is just exciting and there's nothing wrong with saying he needs to work on his mid0range shot and free throws because it's a glaring hole in our offense. I think we all recognize that Rondo covers a ton of other holes and provides much more positive aspects than negative ones. He's undoubtedly a rising star in the league and a very special talent. Let's see where he takes it from here!

[GuyClinch]

The Coaches, GM's and stats all say the same thing. Rondo is an elite defender.

Yeah except his OWN coach and the stats you conviently choose to ignore. The fanbois are all the same. I remember a few years back we had a Rondo fan boy and he was all about +/-. He would post incessantly on a different message board (Celtic-Nation) and sometimes here if I remember right.

But it was all about his +/-. This was in his rookie year. And we were all told how Rondo secretly was the best player in the NBA because of this statistic. Others loved his amazing PER differential. But now that those stats have sunk. They are conviently ignored. Now its all about how he was voted to the NBA second team. <g>

We get it - you think Rondo is a superior defender. I don't. I think he is a good defender (for his SIZE) and he gambles alot. His postive impact on the team defensively isn't that stellar.. We can agree to disagree. How do I get this idea? I watch the games..

That's why he gets voted to the 2nd NBA team defensively.. The need SOME small guy to represent. But the lot of them - well none of em can defend well. Rondo is the best of a sucktastic crowd. Woo he defends better then Nash and Rose. <g> Guys with PER against of 18.4 just aren't stopping people.

Rondo like most PGs earn his money on the offensive end. With 10ppg and 10 assists you can't complain. As an added bonus he defends his position about as well as you can - when he doesn't get beat on a gamble.

Pete

[SichtingLives]

Bottom line and the answer to your question is if 2011 can tone down the act and be somewhat honest about Rondo, you'll see a whole lot less of the critical posts in return.

There's a lot of us who love Rondo but 9 times out of 10 are put in the unfavorable position of having to point out his flaws just to maintain some sense of balance in these discussions.

At this point, everything has already been said about 100 times over but unfortunately Rondo is and will continue to be a hot topic on this forum and RealGM. I'm already a little sick of the Rondo machinations, but people are still going to be going over the same issues 6 months from now. To be honest, from what I've read, almost everyone posting here has a good handle on both ends of Rondo's game.

[MyInsatiableOne]

The fact is, Rondo is not currently nor ever has been an All-Star...is he good enough to? Sure. But until he makes that first All-Star team, he's not. And I think once he develops a decent (not spectacular, but decent) jump shot to keep defenses honest, THEN he will be deadly.

[ryaningf]

^^ would you really have been happy if Doc had sacrificed a win to a 8-man D-league NJ squad just to get Rondo a "development opportunity"?

i mean, really??

i'd love to see how much Doc hate would have come out had we lost to NJ because of going for some supposed long-term gain. especially if at the end of the year we fall 1 game short of HCA.

Playing Rondo doesn't necessarily sacrifice a win...it might have made the win harder to achieve by a certain amount, since the offense wasn't functioning very well. On the other hand, Rondo was dominating the game defensively as well.

But this kind of short-sighted thinking is exactly what most were complaining about last season, and it's what sets Doc apart from Popovich and Phil Jackson, two coaches comfortable using the early season to improve their younger players at the sometimes expense of a loss. The thing is, taking the lower percentage victory opportunity in an early season game against the Nets, while probably resulting in a win anyway because the Nets were so depleted, also raises the percentages that we'll score a late-season win against a better opponent because of the development engendered. You think, 'oh, why sacrifice a loss,' I think, 'why sacrifice a future win'. Providing Rondo with the developmental opportunity early in the season against a bad opponent with an eye towards using a more developed Rondo against a stronger opponent later in the season is a smart move, as opposed to using a stop gap maneuver like Pierce at point to simply pull out a win, when that maneuver is basically useless against the good teams and provides zero chance at 'improvement'. Doc likes to say that he wants to improve each game--well, forced with the opportunity to take the path of improvement versus to the path of status quo, he choose the status quo.

Even if we did lose that game, a loss is often a much more 'teachable moment' than any win...and such a teachable moment might have led to winning a game we otherwise would have lost later in the season. The bottom line, however, is that Doc says one thing, and then acts differently. It's frustrating.

I also think it's a mistake to assume that HCA is important to this team. It was in 07-08; it's not so important right now. It's about peaking in the playoffs; it's about being healthy--and those twin goals could have been furthered just a wee bit had Doc maintained his normal rotation in the Nets game...

[Wolves2011]

The Coaches, GM's and stats all say the same thing. Rondo is an elite defender.

Yeah except his OWN coach and the stats you conviently choose to ignore. The fanbois are all the same. I remember a few years back we had a Rondo fan boy and he was all about +/-. He would post incessantly on a different message board (Celtic-Nation) and sometimes here if I remember right.

But it was all about his +/-. This was in his rookie year. And we were all told how Rondo secretly was the best player in the NBA because of this statistic. Others loved his amazing PER differential. But now that those stats have sunk. They are conviently ignored. Now its all about how he was voted to the NBA second team. <g>

We get it - you think Rondo is a superior defender. I don't. I think he is a good defender (for his SIZE) and he gambles alot. His postive impact on the team defensively isn't that stellar.. We can agree to disagree. How do I get this idea? I watch the games..

That's why he gets voted to the 2nd NBA team defensively.. The need SOME small guy to represent. But the lot of them - well none of em can defend well. Rondo is the best of a sucktastic crowd. Woo he defends better then Nash and Rose. <g> Guys with PER against of 18.4 just aren't stopping people.

Rondo like most PGs earn his money on the offensive end. With 10ppg and 10 assists you can't complain. As an added bonus he defends his position about as well as you can - when he doesn't get beat on a gamble.

Pete

Thats fair I think Rondo is a great defender and you don't.

The people who agree with me are:

1) NBA head coaches - who voted him all on the all defensive team

2) NBA GM's - who voted him best on ball defender and 4th best perimeter defender.

3) Defensive win share ranked him #1 guard defender.

You say there are stats or facts that support your view. What are they?

[Note: and please remember, Doc is worried about Rondo improving, and talks about his improving. I've never, ever heard rank Rondo as a defender. Rondo could be the best guard defender in the NBA and still improving. In fact, I'd hazard, he is the best guard defender and still improving. And Doc wants to see him improve.]