ImageImageImage

We need to improve our transition D - "a little".

Moderators: Domejandro, Worm Guts, Calinks

Devilzsidewalk
RealGM
Posts: 32,002
And1: 6,019
Joined: Oct 09, 2005

Re: We need to improve our transition D - "a little". 

Post#21 » by Devilzsidewalk » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:11 pm

Winter Wonder wrote:
As a coach, watching the defense is the hardest part. I can understand the struggles on Offense and just missing jumpers, but defensive rotations, keeping the man in front of you or in eyesight, that shouldn't have to be re-taught to any great degree at this level.

I expected more defensively as well I guess.



me too. I think the low point was Big Al standing at the basket in transition, and Steve Blake goes in for a layup and Big Al doesn't contest the shot. If you're an NBA center and are afraid to challenge Steve Blake running at you, then there's a huge problem. No excuses about the knee, or not being in game shape, if its that bad then he shouldn't be suiting up.
Image
User avatar
TrentTuckerForever
Starter
Posts: 2,100
And1: 2
Joined: Aug 23, 2001
Location: St. Paul

Re: We need to improve our transition D - "a little". 

Post#22 » by TrentTuckerForever » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:15 pm

Um, Wolves2011? Before the year started, how many games did you think the Wolves would win this year?

If your answer is in the 20s, you should remember that most bad teams tend to win more games at the end of the year, when the pressure's off and the playoff teams are looking ahead. This team especially will take awhile to get any semblance of continuity. There's been significant roster turnover, and a new coach. Their best player (Jefferson) is coming back off a major injury, and their second-best player (Love) hasn't played at all. It's not like there's a ton of talent anyway... lots of potential, but not much in the here and now.

If your answer is in the 30s I'd recommend you take up shuffleboard, because you're in for a long, hard winter.
Klomp wrote:Didn't Brad Miller back up Vlade Divac in SAC too?
User avatar
TrentTuckerForever
Starter
Posts: 2,100
And1: 2
Joined: Aug 23, 2001
Location: St. Paul

Re: We need to improve our transition D - "a little". 

Post#23 » by TrentTuckerForever » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:19 pm

Devilzsidewalk wrote:
TrentTuckerForever wrote:
Devilzsidewalk wrote:Frighteningly, I'd take Iverson on this team in a heartbeat. It'd be a massive improvement. Let him play 42 minutes a game too to make him happy, that'd be just fine with me. I just want to have a guy on the team that doesn't need to stare at his defender for 9 seconds before he can decide what to do because he's thinking "will this work? no. Would this work? no. Maybe this? no"


Not that he'd make the team any better, but he'd average 20 ppg. On 32% shooting.


he was around .45 w/ Denver, .416 w/ Detroit, .577 so far this season, I think if he played regular, I'd expect around 42-45 because he's gonna have other options on offense w/ Big Al, Love, and little Jonny flynn. I can live with that.


On the shooting percentages, I kid, I kid. But I have developed a theory: I believe Wolves2011 is secretly Iverson, leveraging his way to Minneapolis where there are minutes aplenty at the 2-Guard spot. Think about it - AI started complaining about coming off the bench in Memphis riiiiight about the same time 2011 started freaking out about the Wolves start to the season. Coincidence? I think not.
Klomp wrote:Didn't Brad Miller back up Vlade Divac in SAC too?
Wolves2011
Banned User
Posts: 1,029
And1: 20
Joined: Sep 28, 2009

Re: We need to improve our transition D - "a little". 

Post#24 » by Wolves2011 » Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:09 am

TrentTuckerForever wrote:
On the shooting percentages, I kid, I kid. But I have developed a theory: I believe Wolves2011 is secretly Iverson, leveraging his way to Minneapolis where there are minutes aplenty at the 2-Guard spot. Think about it - AI started complaining about coming off the bench in Memphis riiiiight about the same time 2011 started freaking out about the Wolves start to the season. Coincidence? I think not.


Can't stand Iverson... one of the most overrated players of this generation.
User avatar
TheFranchise21
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 8,518
And1: 1
Joined: Aug 14, 2001
Location: All Day
Contact:

Re: We need to improve our transition D - "a little". 

Post#25 » by TheFranchise21 » Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:53 am

I would disagree with your statement about Iverson but this isn't and Iverson thread so I won't say why.

We knew this team was going to be bad. We knew it was going to take time for the guys to learn Rambis' system. Our second best player is out. I'm not worried and you shouldn't be either. It's unrealistic to expect a young and bad team to improve gradually every single game. There are going to be setbacks and slumps. Some games they will show improvement (Boston & NJN games) while others will look silly.

If we're getting blown out this bad in February then I would be concerned, but give it a couple of months for the guys to develop a comfort level in the system before you start worrying.
My Kobe Bryant website I designed myself: http://personal.stthomas.edu/dnnguyen/kb24.
Wolves2011
Banned User
Posts: 1,029
And1: 20
Joined: Sep 28, 2009

Re: We need to improve our transition D - "a little". 

Post#26 » by Wolves2011 » Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:01 pm

Transition D is more hustle than anything else. Players need to run back and set up. Portland and Golden State out hustled us.

Thats coaching.
User avatar
john2jer
RealGM
Posts: 15,304
And1: 452
Joined: May 26, 2006
Location: State Of Total Awesomeness
 

Re: We need to improve our transition D - "a little". 

Post#27 » by john2jer » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:23 pm

What we’ve got here is failure to hustle. Some players you just can't reach. So you get what we had here on Monday. Which isn't the way we want it. But, we got it. And I don't like it any more than you.

As a coach, I wouldn't say it's necessarily coaching. If a guy is a slug, he's a slug. The coaching part comes from deciding if you can accept his lack of hustle on defense because he provides something on offense, or do you give him the best front row seat in the gym, on the bench. Once you make that decision, then it's up to the player to decide if he's going to correct his behavior, or continue.
basketball royalty wrote:Is Miami considered a big city in the States? I thought guys just went there because of the weather and the bitches?
Wolves2011
Banned User
Posts: 1,029
And1: 20
Joined: Sep 28, 2009

Re: We need to improve our transition D - "a little". 

Post#28 » by Wolves2011 » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:32 pm

john2jer wrote:What we’ve got here is failure to hustle. Some players you just can't reach. So you get what we had here on Monday. Which isn't the way we want it. But, we got it. And I don't like it any more than you.

As a coach, I wouldn't say it's necessarily coaching. If a guy is a slug, he's a slug. The coaching part comes from deciding if you can accept his lack of hustle on defense because he provides something on offense, or do you give him the best front row seat in the gym, on the bench. Once you make that decision, then it's up to the player to decide if he's going to correct his behavior, or continue.


Both Portland and the Warriors beat us down the floor about every time on the fast break.

I know Phil likes to keep his cool, and Rambis emulates him. But it can seem like indifference. Maybe thats what the players see. Indifference. Rambis isn't the "cool" Phil, with a bunch of veterans and guys like Jordan or Kobe to make sure everyone is working hard.

He has a bunch of young players who are used to being yelled at when the coach is unhappy. Time to loose the "indifference".
Wolves2011
Banned User
Posts: 1,029
And1: 20
Joined: Sep 28, 2009

Re: We need to improve our transition D - "a little". 

Post#29 » by Wolves2011 » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:34 pm

Wolves2011 wrote:
john2jer wrote:What we’ve got here is failure to hustle. Some players you just can't reach. So you get what we had here on Monday. Which isn't the way we want it. But, we got it. And I don't like it any more than you.

As a coach, I wouldn't say it's necessarily coaching. If a guy is a slug, he's a slug. The coaching part comes from deciding if you can accept his lack of hustle on defense because he provides something on offense, or do you give him the best front row seat in the gym, on the bench. Once you make that decision, then it's up to the player to decide if he's going to correct his behavior, or continue.


Both Portland and the Warriors beat us down the floor about every time on the fast break.

I know Phil likes to keep his cool, and Rambis emulates him. But it can seem like indifference. Maybe thats what the players see. Indifference. Rambis isn't the "cool" Phil, with a bunch of veterans and guys like Jordan or Kobe to make sure everyone is working hard.

He has a bunch of young players who are used to being yelled at when the coach is unhappy. Time to loose the "indifference".


If Rambis doesn't want to yell.... see above.... then at least let Lambier yell for him. We know Lambier can yell.
User avatar
john2jer
RealGM
Posts: 15,304
And1: 452
Joined: May 26, 2006
Location: State Of Total Awesomeness
 

Re: We need to improve our transition D - "a little". 

Post#30 » by john2jer » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:37 pm

But Kurt has a real cool hand. And it's possible to motivate without yelling. Every player has a different way that's best to motivate them. I've never coached at the NBA level, but after 11 years I've definitely learned what works on one player doesn't necessarily work on another. Some need to be yelled at, some need to be challenged, some need to be coddled.
basketball royalty wrote:Is Miami considered a big city in the States? I thought guys just went there because of the weather and the bitches?
Wolves2011
Banned User
Posts: 1,029
And1: 20
Joined: Sep 28, 2009

Re: We need to improve our transition D - "a little". 

Post#31 » by Wolves2011 » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:42 pm

john2jer wrote:But Kurt has a real cool hand. And it's possible to motivate without yelling. Every player has a different way that's best to motivate them. I've never coached at the NBA level, but after 11 years I've definitely learned what works on one player doesn't necessarily work on another. Some need to be yelled at, some need to be challenged, some need to be coddled.


If you are down by 30 plus points and guys aren't running to get back on the break, I not only let the team know I'm unhappy [by yelling at the top of my lungs at them] , I tell them to put opponents "on their rears". I challenge their manhood. I don't want to see any more unchallenged shots. Make the warriors think twice about embarrassing us.
User avatar
john2jer
RealGM
Posts: 15,304
And1: 452
Joined: May 26, 2006
Location: State Of Total Awesomeness
 

Re: We need to improve our transition D - "a little". 

Post#32 » by john2jer » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:50 pm

Wolves2011 wrote:
john2jer wrote:But Kurt has a real cool hand. And it's possible to motivate without yelling. Every player has a different way that's best to motivate them. I've never coached at the NBA level, but after 11 years I've definitely learned what works on one player doesn't necessarily work on another. Some need to be yelled at, some need to be challenged, some need to be coddled.


If you are down by 30 plus points and guys aren't running to get back on the break, I not only let the team know I'm unhappy [by yelling at the top of my lungs at them] , I tell them to put opponents "on their rears". I challenge their manhood. I don't want to see any more unchallenged shots. Make the warriors think twice about embarrassing us.


I completely agree with all that except "yelling at the top of my lungs." I think you can get your point across without yelling at the top of your lungs. In fact the coach that can, in my opinion, is the better coach.
basketball royalty wrote:Is Miami considered a big city in the States? I thought guys just went there because of the weather and the bitches?
Wolves2011
Banned User
Posts: 1,029
And1: 20
Joined: Sep 28, 2009

Re: We need to improve our transition D - "a little". 

Post#33 » by Wolves2011 » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:05 pm

john2jer wrote:
Wolves2011 wrote:
john2jer wrote:But Kurt has a real cool hand. And it's possible to motivate without yelling. Every player has a different way that's best to motivate them. I've never coached at the NBA level, but after 11 years I've definitely learned what works on one player doesn't necessarily work on another. Some need to be yelled at, some need to be challenged, some need to be coddled.


If you are down by 30 plus points and guys aren't running to get back on the break, I not only let the team know I'm unhappy [by yelling at the top of my lungs at them] , I tell them to put opponents "on their rears". I challenge their manhood. I don't want to see any more unchallenged shots. Make the warriors think twice about embarrassing us.


I completely agree with all that except "yelling at the top of my lungs." I think you can get your point across without yelling at the top of your lungs. In fact the coach that can, in my opinion, is the better coach.


If you have a bunch of mature players, they can "read" their coach. They know when "all H*ll is going to loose". Young players don't have a clue sometimes. They have been yelled at in high school, AAU, college, and for earlier NBA coaches [unless they played for the lakers.] They know when the coach yells, they had better run their tail off.

I agree you can treat mature players, with a mature approach. We don't have a mature team. We barely have a team. These guys need to be yelled at until they get a clue. If that wasn't true, we wouldnt have had guys jogging while the Warriors shot layups.
User avatar
john2jer
RealGM
Posts: 15,304
And1: 452
Joined: May 26, 2006
Location: State Of Total Awesomeness
 

Re: We need to improve our transition D - "a little". 

Post#34 » by john2jer » Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:56 pm

Wolves2011 wrote:
john2jer wrote:
Wolves2011 wrote:If you are down by 30 plus points and guys aren't running to get back on the break, I not only let the team know I'm unhappy [by yelling at the top of my lungs at them] , I tell them to put opponents "on their rears". I challenge their manhood. I don't want to see any more unchallenged shots. Make the warriors think twice about embarrassing us.


I completely agree with all that except "yelling at the top of my lungs." I think you can get your point across without yelling at the top of your lungs. In fact the coach that can, in my opinion, is the better coach.


If you have a bunch of mature players, they can "read" their coach. They know when "all H*ll is going to loose". Young players don't have a clue sometimes. They have been yelled at in high school, AAU, college, and for earlier NBA coaches [unless they played for the lakers.] They know when the coach yells, they had better run their tail off.

I agree you can treat mature players, with a mature approach. We don't have a mature team. We barely have a team. These guys need to be yelled at until they get a clue. If that wasn't true, we wouldnt have had guys jogging while the Warriors shot layups.


We're going to continue to disagree on that point. I've been coaching for 11 years. I can't think of any point in my career that I've yelled at my players, and we've been quite successful. I think there are better ways to get your point across than losing your cool. In fact my most productive "talk" that's straightened a struggling team was during a practice that I said three words. We had just gone from playing in a tournament in which we dominated the competition, then the following weekend playing a lot of the same teams, and similar competition, we tanked, BAD! When I walked into practice they were screwing around. Within minutes they were scared to even look at me, and we went on to have a phenominal finish to the season, and we never played or practiced as poorly again. 5 years later and those guys STILL talk about that practice and how it was the turning point to the season, and many of their careers.

But I don't yell. I hate the sound of my voice when I yell. I'm vocal/active during games. I'm vocal/active during practice. But I refuse to yell. As soon as I get to the point where I can't get my message across without yelling, then it's time for me to hang up my whistle. Now as I've said, I've never coached in the NBA, only high school, AAU, and traveling. Then again, maybe you're saying the players I coach are more mature than this year's Timberwolves? That's quite possible. :-)

I just feel there a better motivators than screaming.

I'm disappointed you missed the Cool Hand Luke references in my posts, though. :-)
basketball royalty wrote:Is Miami considered a big city in the States? I thought guys just went there because of the weather and the bitches?

Return to Minnesota Timberwolves