Scott Fired: Hornets in turmoil, Chris Paul is the target!

[Wolves2011]

If the new coach of the Hornets doesn't turn things around, Chris Paul could quietly go to management and tell them to trade him. We've discussed this before, but in my view, if the Hornets stumble along, there is a 50:50 chance that Chris Paul will be on the trade market next summer.

Would we want him? What would we give up to get him?

I'd give them rights to Rubio or Flynn [they can choose], plus our first round pick, Gomes (helps make money work and opens cap space) and Utahs first round pick.

We end up with:

Jefferson
Love
??
??
Chris Paul

Plus we can trade rights to Rubio or Flynn [whoever Hornets don't choose] and Pekovic to get SF or SG. We also have our cap space to bring in a good wing and the Charlotte pick.

[revprodeji]

We cannot trade our first rd pick until it is fixed at less than 10 (thus after draft lotto).

Could we make an offer of prospects and exp for Paul? Yea. But not the draft pick.

[Krapinsky]

I don't think paul will be traded until he publicly requests a trade. They are better off keeping Paul then giving into the media panic and signing up for a 5 year rebuilding process, which is what they would be in for with the dead weight contracts that they have. Paul is signed for 3 more years after this year. Most of their dead weight only goes through 2011 -- Peja, Peterson, Songalia. Okafor and West can be moved in the right deal. I don't see a reason for them to panic.

[Wolves2011]

We cannot trade our first rd pick until it is fixed at less than 10 (thus after draft lotto).

Could we make an offer of prospects and exp for Paul? Yea. But not the draft pick.

I remember, someone said that in a previous discussion. The trade setting is next summer after the lottery [say a lottery night deal.]

If we could do it at the trading deadline we could include expiring contracts. If it was a trading deadline we could give the Hornets both Flynn and Rubio and let them bring in additional talent with the one they don't want to keep.

So the trading deadline deal would be

Flynn and Rubio, plus expiring contracts, plus Charlotte pick for Chris Paul.
[They could then do what we are doing, with flynn and Rubio, keep one and trade the other.]

We end up with"

Jefferson
Love
???
???
Chris Paul

Have rights to Pekovic, our lottery pick, utah pick and cap space to complete the roster.

[lobishome]

Minnie needs a playmaker PG and a top level player if they want to be a winner team (it's only the beggining). How much is the cap's space now? 14000k?. If you sign Paul (13,520,500), minnie don't have enough money to buy a ice-cream.

It's absurd, they have Flynn and Rubio's rights.

[Wolves2011]

I don't think paul will be traded until he publicly requests a trade. They are better off keeping Paul then giving into the media panic and signing up for a 5 year rebuilding process, which is what they would be in for with the dead weight contracts that they have. Paul is signed for 3 more years after this year. Most of their dead weight only goes through 2011 -- Peja, Peterson, Songalia. Okafor and West can be moved in the right deal. I don't see a reason for them to panic.

From everything I've read Chris Paul is not happy!!

He hasn't publicly requested a trade, but as the owner do you want to wait for him to go public and reduce his trade value, or do you make the deal when he has quietly gone to you. You don't want to give him up in a "fire sale" like Iverson to Nuggets or Carter to Nets. You want to maximize the young talent you bring back.

The players for the rights to chris paul would be Wolves, Thunder, Blazers and others with young talent/rights to talent/picks.

[Wolves2011]

Minnie needs a playmaker PG and a top level player if they want to be a winner team (it's only the beggining). How much is the cap's space now? 14000k?. If you sign Paul (13,520,500), minnie don't have enough money to buy a ice-cream.

It's absurd, they have Flynn and Rubio's rights.

We are trading cap space. In the first scenario, a draft day deal

We give them:

Flynn - $3 million
our lottery pick, value $4 to $5 million.
Gomes - $4 million
Utah pick - $1 million

13.5/12 = 1.13 within the guidelines, as I understand them.

We still have about $14 m to $15 million of cap space by including Gomes.

In the second scenario {trade deadline] we have less cap space because we haven't included Gomes, but he could be included or could be traded separately for expiring.

[john2jer]

If New Orleans decides to trade Chris Paul, they're going to do it in a move that blows up the whole team and moves bad salary. Peja, Posey, Peterson, and/or Songalia is going to have to go as well.

And you must also keep in mind that Chris Paul is BYC, which puts a damper on trades until July 1st. Pretty difficult to do unless you're dealing cap space. And by then Gomes isn't as attractive, draft picks have then grown on fans and don't get traded, and we no longer have the benefit of making a trade and still having cap space. Also, Chris Paul and Jefferson on the same team is disgusting, so Big Al would need to be moved as well.

Hmm... Maybe that then becomes the deal. Trade Jefferson for Paul next offseason and trade Flynn and company for a top flight athletic big man who can play defense. Rambling, though...

[Esohny]

So in this incredibly unlikely scenario, the Hornets are "in turmoil" and you're convinced Chris Paul wants a trade right now, but both teams wait until after the draft to do it? Ok.

[Wolves2011]

So in this incredibly unlikely scenario, the Hornets are "in turmoil" and you're convinced Chris Paul wants a trade right now, but both teams wait until after the draft to do it? Ok.

The Hornets will wait until their "new coach" has an opportunity to turn things around. If a new coach doesn't make the Hornets a "contender" then I believe Chris Paul soto vocce demands a trade.

It could be a trade deadline deal.

[C.lupus]

Under that scenario, wouldn't Chris Paul sotto voce demand to be traded to a contender? And wouldn't NO demand at least Flynn + Love (or Jefferson) + CHA pick + Utah pick? I would if I was NO. And wouldn't Paul be really unhappy playing next to Brewer and Wilkins and Pecherov?

We would have to gut the team to get him here and that wouldn't solve his problem of playing for a contender.

[Wolves2011]

Under that scenario, wouldn't Chris Paul sotto voce demand to be traded to a contender? And wouldn't NO demand at least Flynn + Love (or Jefferson) + CHA pick + Utah pick? I would if I was NO. And wouldn't Paul be really unhappy playing next to Brewer and Wilkins and Pecherov?

We would have to gut the team to get him here and that wouldn't solve his problem of playing for a contender.

The Hornets have Okafor for 5 years and West for 3 years. Dont think they need our "bigs". They would need another quality PG [which we can give them] and flexibility to improve their wings - our first round pick should help. They also get Utah pick.

Don't know if Paul has a no trade clause. He's not going to a contender, unless they can send back quality YOUNG players and picks. Does he want to take a chance on a young team with the assets to improve or stay in mediocrity with the Hornets. Thats his choice.

[shrink]

We cannot trade our first rd pick until it is fixed at less than 10 (thus after draft lotto).

Good point, but it made me wonder ..

Could we be so bad before the trade deadline that we were mathematically locked into a bottom 10 draft pick?

[shrink]

If New Orleans decides to trade Chris Paul, they're going to do it in a move that blows up the whole team and moves bad salary. Peja, Posey, Peterson, and/or Songalia is going to have to go as well.

This is exactly right. People need to not just think about Love and Flynn, but start thinking about Blount and Cardinal. NOH is still one of the smallest market teams in the league, and if they aren't selling out, they lose money. George Shinn has one of the smallest net worth's in the league.

Chris Paul's BYC also fits better with a deal that moves salary. MIN has the main components that fit a deal - gobs of financial flexibility, a rich owner who pays for big-time talent, youth and picks. Unlike LeBron, who holds all the cards in a sign-and-trade on determining his destination, the Hornets have Paul locked in through 2012. I believe Kobe may be the only player with a "no-trade" clause anymore. I'd question bringing in an unhappy Paul, but hopefully our young team could win him over in 2.5 years.

Lastly, I think if Chris Paul is traded (a giant "if"), many people are going to be surprised by how little talent is in the deal.

Chris Paul is certainly worth his max deal, but when you start adding on more and more salary, I think people may be surprised by the eventual deal. If Chris Paul is worth $15 in 2010 (yes), is Paul plus Peja worth $29? That's a lot of water for Paul to carry. What if Posey is included, adding more than $13 more million over the next two years? Is Paul worth all of that, when you have to write the checks (and lose the flexibility to bring in better players around him. A MIN deal starts with the $14.7 mil in expirings of Blount and Cardinal, and Daniels waive may hurt us.

Lastly, I sympathize with NOH fans. They are going to get buried in low-ball offers, just like we endured with KG three years ago. Nobody likes to hear that your superstar is on shaky ground, and especially if you're going to get offered trade value heavy on savings and light on talent.

[Narf]

I suppose I should have posted that trade here instead. Meh, feel free to delete my other thread if you want.

CP3, Peja, and Julian Wright
for
Al Jefferson, Jonny Flynn, Gomes, and Cardinal

Get's them under the luxury tax, clears their books of Peja's terrible contract, and gives them a good young PG to go with a very good PF/C. They can figure out who to trade and who to keep later (or they could just keep Jefferson, West, and Okafor).

Thoughts?

[shrink]

The value is there, but I'd do two things:

1. Include a third team. NOH doesn't need Al Jefferson.

2. Include Blount. He's far more valuable to NOH than he is to us, and I think it would add trade value to the deal.

[John Doe [MIN]]

If we're making a Paul trade, why not take back Posey as the toxic asset rather than Peja? The Hornets' whole team is locked up two more years anyway. Past this season, getting them out of Peja's $14 million in 2011 isn't really any better than getting them out of Posey's $6.5 million and $6.9 million ($13.4 million total) as long as the deal gets them under the luxury tax line for both years.

For the Wolves, a deal taking back only $20 million would be easier to pull off, and depending on how much of what we send back is expirings, might leave us with some extra cap space to play with.

For the Hornets, they can start the rebuilding in earnest in the summer of 2011, when their only remaining contracts will be Okafor and West (which has an ETO, if they wanted to dump him, too).

What can you do for me here, Narf?

[Klomp]

FYI Paul is BYC so an offseason deal is more likely...

[john2jer]

FYI Paul is BYC so an offseason deal is more likely...

That was what I said, but it was ignored because it doesn't fit the dream.

[Wolves2011]

FYI Paul is BYC so an offseason deal is more likely...

That was what I said, but it was ignored because it doesn't fit the dream.

You made a good point about Paul being BYC. But we can still try to work a deal, can't we? If it makes sense for the wolves long term future and we can help the Hornets meet their longer term needs as well. We can have something win/win.