What Do We Need The Most?

[Walt Cronkite]

At least we have Chandler opening up the floor for everyone else.

[Battery]

At least we have Chandler opening up the floor for everyone else.

Like it matters, even if we had Moses parting the Red Sea our team would still find a way to drown. And if Chandler continues to stink, he becomes a nice expiring contract next summer or we dump him the following season.

[Walt Cronkite]

Whatever. You made a lot of bold and aggressive comments for months. Time to fess up that you didn't know as much about Chandler as you argued. Chandler was a better player who would offset his limited offense by fitting the team better. His tenacity and vocal style would benefit the team in ways that numbers would never be able to show. I don't want to read the contract spin, since I quickly pointed out that that was about the only positive I could see in the Okafor trade.

[Paydro70]

And, as Hamilton and I have said from the moment of the deal, we'd still be better off moving Okafor for cap, or waiting a year, saving the $2m, and THEN trading Okafor for an expiring.

[Battery]

Whatever. You made a lot of bold and aggressive comments for months. Time to fess up that you didn't know as much about Chandler as you argued. Chandler was a better player who would offset his limited offense by fitting the team better. His tenacity and vocal style would benefit the team in ways that numbers would never be able to show. I don't want to read the contract spin, since I quickly pointed out that that was about the only positive I could see in the Okafor trade.

Absolutely I did and I'm not backing down or hiding from anything I said. But to be FAIR, I always talked about Chandler in terms of team, AND, Chandlers contract which was much more favorable than Okafor's. Obviously on a stat by stat basis Chandler has been nowhere near Okafor prior to or after the trade. But you don't win games because of fancy individual stats. Chris Paul had 21 points and 18 assists in a game this season and his team was blown off the court in the first quarter.

Once again, to be FAIR, had I known during the summer that Diaw would show up to camp fat and out of shape, both Felton and DJ would regress, Raja hurt before the season starts, and Gerald not able to sink a shot if his life depended on it, then I would have said BLOW UP THE TEAM before we made the Okafor trade. But how the hell could anyone have known Diaw, Felton, DJ, Raja and Gerald would all be huge problems???? I'm sooooo disappointed in Diaw and DJ.

And yes I wanted Okafor gone. I'm still soooooooo happy he's gone because him being here would not have made a difference in any one of our games. So to me, this was never about Chandler. To you and the Okafor's lovers it was about losing Okafor for Chandler. But for me, it was all about losing Okafor. You could have taken out Okafor and inserted any number of centers with favorable contracts and I would have been just as happy!!

Also, as you know I am very big into the TEAM thing. Chandler is a part of the team, he is not a difference maker. I never claimed he was. But in order for Chandler to work, you need all the parts working. And right now nothing is working. Hopefully, we get healthy SOON, Diaw doesn't pull a hammy while getting back into shape, Bell can play, DJ takes over the PG duties and becomes a leader, Crash finds his offense and Murray becomes a good 6th man. This is all do-able, so we should give them at least until Christmas to see what this team can do at full strength. Right?

[thruthefire]

I think it's pretty obvious what happened. Tyson Chandler has (Please Use More Appropriate Word) our players already limited offensive abilities, as I suggested he would in the thread starting by the Canadian.

[Battery]

I think it's pretty obvious what happened. Tyson Chandler has (Please Use More Appropriate Word) our players already limited offensive abilities, as I suggested in the thread starting by the Canadian. Jokingly, to be fair, but I still stated it.

Oh yes, so obvious even when he's on the bench in foul trouble or when Raymond decides to chuck up 10 straight off balance shots. So obvious.


Did you know last season we scored 85 or less points in EIGHT out of our first twelve games?

[e4Nf6]

Battery is doing some pretty serious revising of history here....

Your argument at first was that Chandler was a better player than Okafor straight-up, not considering contracts. And, the Bobcats would be better as a result. Now that we've all gotten a chance to see Chandler play a bit and he is exactly what we all said he would be, It's all about contracts.

Chris Paul had 21 points and 18 assists in a game this season and his team was blown off the court in the first quarter.

So now Chris Paul is an "empty stat" player too? I would kill to have his "empty" 20 and 10 playing for the Bobcats. Why is it so hard to understand that otherwise bad teams can have individual players who are good. It wasn't so long ago that Kobe won 30something games in a season. Was he an "empty stats" player then? Amazing how he forgot how to play "team-ball" when Shaq left and remembered again right about the same time that Phil Jackson, Andrew Bynum, and Pau Gasol showed up.

[Battery]

Battery is doing some pretty serious revising of history here....

Your argument at first was that Chandler was a better player than Okafor straight-up, not considering contracts. And, the Bobcats would be better as a result. Now that we've all gotten a chance to see Chandler play a bit and he is exactly what we all said he would be, It's all about contracts.

Ummm no. My argument was Chandler is a better TEAM player than Okafor. I said Chandler was better at doing the "little things" which help a team win games. Obviously the team Chandler is now playing with wasn't anywhere near ready to begin this season. Those "little things" I talked about all summer won't work when the other 4/5 all suck.

And I never said it was all about contracts. However, the contracts were a part of why the trade was appealing. I said that all summer too.


And have you watched the Hornets this season? I've watched almost every minute of their games and Okafor looks like crap on defense. The Hornets have been soooo bad that they've been playing a lot of extensive garbage time from the first quarter on! Okafor should have been racking up the stats in these garbage time games! Which, for the most part, he did!

All you guys were talking about how Okafor's stats would suddenly take off now that he's playing with a real point guard, well so far I've seen the exact same thing he did here. Except now, he looks like he's regressed on the defensive end. Then again, I never thought he was that good on defense to begin with. He still does the same thing he always does which is hide out directly under the basket, never comes up to directly challenge anyone until they release their shot and he tries to block it by coming out of nowhere. Same sh*t, different team. All I can say to the Hornets is have fun, he's all yours for the next 5 years.

So now Chris Paul is an "empty stat" player too? I would kill to have his "empty" 20 and 10 playing for the Bobcats. Why is it so hard to understand that otherwise bad teams can have individual players who are good. It wasn't so long ago that Kobe won 30something games in a season. Was he an "empty stats" player then? Amazing how he forgot how to play "team-ball" when Shaq left and remembered again right about the same time that Phil Jackson, Andrew Bynum, and Pau Gasol showed up.

I never said bad teams can't have individual players who are good. Why do you put words in my mouth? My point about Chris Paul's 21-18 was about stats, not Chris Paul. Perhaps if Okafor played better defense that night the Hornets would have won the game. Maybe if Chris Paul played better defense they would have won. This comes down to doing what it takes on a nightly basis to win that particular game. That night, the Hornets needed a great defensive performance from Okafor and he was nowhere to be seen.

Anyway, the Hornets are on now, gonna see if the dummy who traded for Okafor can now coach him.

[Diop]

:-? Ok Sachmo Maybe you are right but I think you have to agree Felton or Wallace needs to be traded to rebuild? We either trade Wallace and give big bucks for Felton or keep Wallace and trade Felton to get some value this year before he walks next?
Got any ideas?

Yeah I agree Buddy, if you look in the "Blow up the team thread" I had a brain snap where I proposed pretty much trading the whole team.
I do think the GSW situation could benefit us. Ellis would be my target.

[fatlever]

regardless of what chandler is or isnt doing on offense... to suggest he is the reason for our scoring troubles is a bit ridiculous. chandler is merely one of many players struggling right now.

everyone outside of raja has looked awful on offense this year and sadly raja has not played in half the games.

we are collectively awful right now on offense. i would say it probably has more to do with felton and dj than anything else. both have been pretty bad this season.

[Battery]

regardless of what chandler is or isnt doing on offense... to suggest he is the reason for our scoring troubles is a bit ridiculous. chandler is merely one of many players struggling right now.

everyone outside of raja has looked awful on offense this year and sadly raja has not played in half the games.

we are collectively awful right now on offense. i would say it probably has more to do with felton and dj than anything else. both have been pretty bad this season.

Unfortunately the Okafor lovers are more focused on how we replace the whopping 13 ppg he poured in so if TC doesn't come anywhere close to that, the entire focus will be on him. I don't even think they realize DJ hasn't shown up the past 3 games. And they sure as hell don't recognize how awful Felton has played this season.

Oh and by the way, Okafor had another crappy game tonight. He actually contested a few plays so he picked up some fouls early on and had to sit. Guess the new coach told him that on defense he needs to actually face his man in order to guard him, not play off to the side and then at the last moment launch yourself in the air and try for the block. Or another Okafor specialty, playing off his man so he can be near the hoop in position for a potential rebound. Different city, nothing changed.

[thruthefire]

Whenever Chandler is on the court, we're playing 4 on 5 on offense. (Although he doesn't defend or rebound particularly well, either.) Everyone's offense has suffered because of him. The only positive right now is that he's too **** stupid to stay out of foul trouble, which means Nazr, a better player, gets on the court more often.

[Paydro70]

It is undeniably true that Mohammed is playing better than Chandler right now... he's outdoing him at literally everything but FT%. I don't know if that will really hold up or not (more from Mohammed falling back to earth than Tyson roaring back). This does raise the question of why Mohammed didn't get to play at all last year... but I guess it's just piling on to criticize LB for last season at this point.

There's no doubt that all of our players are playing badly, and so Fats is correct, it's silly to blame it all on Chandler. But the Okafor trade was a terrible mistake, and so it's getting the brunt of the blame because it's the most recent change.

[BobsBuddy]

If this team doesn't turn around quick I suspect that after the TRADE RESTRICTIONS ARE LIFTED ON PLAYERS AROUND 12-25-2009, Larry will make multple trades. He is not going to sit around long and I'm sure he has a goal of at least 40 wins this season. A veteran point( currently sitting on some other teams bench) starting with Flip and DJ backing up is my guess his first move will be for Felton. Hes not happy with Diaw and NYK want him so that will be another move for a true low post player hopefully LEE to put alongside TC. Later I look for him to trade Bell if he is healthy to a contender to get something of value for him. AND if the losses continue to mount and attendance gets worse then Bob will pressure him to trade GW for expiring veteran contracts to make the team more attactive for sale to another owner that wants to bring in his own coach/front office staff next season.

1. MONEY 2.WINNING ARE BOB'S MAIN FOCUS.. ITS ONLY AN INVESTMENT TO HIM

[fatlever]

if the team is struggling badly come january, LB should be banned from having any say-so in trades. he will not have our future in mind, but only now. hopefully higgins has a clue on how do proceed our plan to go for the playoffs fails this season.

[-Ian-]

A certain 6th man from the Memphis Grizzlies.

I super agree.