felton has to go

[BobCatsFoLife]

I enjoy reading these threads because it is amazing how off track they get. Usually I don't even post because it is so far off the initial topic there isn't any point, but this is a touchy subject for me because I am a Raymond Felton fan. Raymond is a die hard, hard nosed basketball player. This guy has the heart of a lion, but I believe that he will be, at best, a solid backup PG in the NBA. I keep having faith that he is shooting at least 1000 3 pointers a day in the summer and will come back with a consistent jumpshot. I believe he is working at it, but he will never have a jumpshot if he dosen't have it by now. The bad decisions and turnovers are simply unacceptable at this point in his career. It has been so frustrating watching him this year I can't even put it into words. And as for TC "He is who we thought he was!"

[doc.end]

Felton has to be the primary conduit to that improvement. He acknowledged some self-consciousness of late that slows his decision-making.

"I'm doing a lot of thinking right now: 'Should I go (to the rim)? Should I pass? Should I shoot?'" he said. "I need to be aggressive and just play my game. As I do that, I'll get easy shots for everybody else.

"I know that part is on me. We are a team, but some things I just have to put on my shoulders."

That almost sounds like Felton and not Jackson will be cancer there (one day).

[thruthefire]

Chandler IS being held accountable, that is what you're not seeing. Actually EVERYONE is being held accountable, BUT, it ALL starts at the point guard spot. If you've been WATCHING the games (which apparently you haven't) you would see how inept Felton has become. I won't even get started on DJ because he's literally disappeared the past 4 games.

That was a nice way of me trying to end this conversation. You know, agreeing to disagree, but I should have known that you would take it and run with it. Now this is going to be really off base, but it must be said. Why is it that anytime someone disagrees with you, it must be that the person disagreeing isn't watching the games? Whether it's Paydro, tsherkin, me, etc., it always comes back to that lame ass line, "If you ACTUALLY WATCH the games ...," or some variation of that.

Back on topic. There's over a 22-point differential per 100 possessions between how our team plays when Chandler is on the court and how our team plays when Felton is on the court. The most valid counter you could make to that is, "Well, D.J. has been so bad that those numbers make Felts look better than he has been, and Nazr has been so awesome that those numbers make Tyson look worse than he has been." I actually don't disagree with that. However, that's still a ridiculous differential. And despite Felton being awful, he's still been better for us than Chandler.

Chandler's not the issue; he was never going to make a big difference to the offense except in the sense of putting more of the onus on Felton, the banner guard for inefficient scoring at the 1. That's the big contribution he's made that's hurting the team, that he's forced Felton and the backcourt in general to score more.

Which is precisely my point. Everyone has had to shoulder even more of an offensive load this season with Chandler now in the middle. Don't you think this is a problem? Putting more of the onus offensively on Felton is a death wish. Even if he was playing like he did after the first two months of last season (15 and 7), we'd still be awful offensively.

We can attribute a lot of that though to Ray and DJ not being able to run the offense.

And having to play 4 on 5. Just sayin'.

Also, nobody is giving TC a pass because he's been terrible too. He is coming off surgery and hardly played last season so he will need some time to at least get back to normal. But our offense rests on the shoulders of Raymond and he has been beyond pathetic, so even if TC was playing up to his abilities, we would still be terrible because of bad pg play and the rest of the team having their issues which I mentioned above.

Playing 45 games during the regular season and then starting in the playoffs is not hardly playing. There are plenty of guys who have come back much better than Chandler has coming off an injury. Okafor in 06-07 is a perfect example. How much time do you think Chandler needs, though? An entire season?

[tsherkin]

Which is precisely my point. Everyone has had to shoulder even more of an offensive load this season with Chandler now in the middle. Don't you think this is a problem? Putting more of the onus offensively on Felton is a death wish. Even if he was playing like he did after the first two months of last season (15 and 7), we'd still be awful offensively.

I agree that it's a problem. Or at least that, in principle, prior to the Jackson trade, it was an issue. I even broached this topic before when the Okafor trade happened, and a lot of people laughed at me because they didn't like Emeka in Charlotte and didn't think much of his offensive abilities.

My point was this, and I mean it generally, not directed at a particular poster:

Attacking Chandler is senseless; you know his weaknesses. He cannot create for himself. He runs like a deer, he has magnet hands and finishes oops and pick-and-roll stuff really well, and he is all over the offensive glass. That's what he does. His defensive rebounding hasn't been awesome this year and he hasn't been much of an impact defender... but he also hasn't been used very much on offense and he's still all over the offensive glass. Chandler's filling his role and he's not even 100% healthy yet.

The trade opened up a big hole in the offense and really highlighted what I (and others) have been saying for years: Raymond Felton is not a very good offensive player, despite his APG. He's a turnover machine who can't shoot to save his life... and when I say shoot, I mean 'finish at the rim.' He's Milt Palacio, only much more athletic.

In any case, the big issue before now has been that the Cats haven't had a go to scorer. I've mentioned this before. While his debut wasn't a stunner by any means, Jackson is that isolation scorer guy. He's not going to rock 30 ppg or anything, but he doesn't have to. He more than makes up for the departure of Okafor's 15 ppg and occasional isolation play, and he'll help take the load from Felton's shoulders (and the ball from his hands, more importantly).

I think that everyone knew that this team wasn't going to be very good offensively the way it was set up when the trade happened, and even before that. The Cats didn't have a lot of offensive talent.

Wallace looks good, no doubt, and sometimes things looked good, but it wasn't a recipe for success. Now, at least, they've got a guy with a track record of success as a scorer, and not just a catch-and-shoot kind of guy, but a guy who can initiate from behind the arc.

More importantly, they didn't sacrifice defense in the deal, got a little better on the glass and got another ball-handler.

Watch the next 10 games compared to the last 10 games; I think you'll see a marked difference in at least the disposition of the Charlotte offense, if not necessarily the results right away.

[Battery]

Wallace looks good, no doubt, and sometimes things looked good, but it wasn't a recipe for success. Now, at least, they've got a guy with a track record of success as a scorer, and not just a catch-and-shoot kind of guy, but a guy who can initiate from behind the arc.

Wallace does not look good at all.

tsherkin, you have to understand that EVERYONE on our team is not playing (offensively) anywhere close to last season. You're over-analyzing things. Nobody could expect every player to regress so badly in just one offseason. But it all starts at the point guard spot, especially with Ray because he's not directing players on the court. It's like everyone is standing around waiting for Ray to brick a jump shot because he's taken so many bad perimeter shots this season. Lots of passing, actually love the passing, but nobody is cutting to the hoop and nobody is going strong to the hoop with the ball.

And I just want to say that it's not entirely Ray's fault because I think Crash needs to be way more aggressive on offense. He too has disappeared offensively and has been a big disappointment this season. So really, Fats could have started a thread (insert Bobcats player here) must go and you could make a very strong case they need to be gone too because they suck just as much as Ray. But again, it all starts at the point guard spot because you can win with a good point, even if you have Charlotte Bobcats around him.

Anyway, how is life with the Raptors? Our sh*tty team is only 2 games behind yours!

[Battery]

That was a nice way of me trying to end this conversation.

I understand where you're coming from with regards to Ray. You're right, it's unfair to put everything on him because this entire team has been lousy on offense. Nobody is being aggressive, except for Bell, but he's hurt and now he's gone. And it's the reason why Jax was acquired, he's aggressive and can be a leader when going well. Contract aside, Jackson is the type of player we need if only to wake these Bobcat clowns out of their collective slumber. Our players are too nice, we need some meanness.

So lets put the TC crap aside and see if we can come up with a lineup that actually works with what we have. Everybody should be held accountable and if they aren't playing well within their role on the team, then that player needs to be called out. Whether it's TC, Ray, Diaw, Crash or DJ.

With Jax now it's a new start for everyone. Time for these highly paid players to step up. Then come trade deadline if we're not on a playoff track, blow this team up to smithereens.

[WaydownSouth]

Has anyone actually answered Fats question for page 3 yet???

who here thinks we should offer felton a long term deal next summer? maybe thats the real question here. does anyone here still want him as our starting pg for the next 5 years?

Personally no... I'd let him walk, but I'd be looking to trade him as soon as I could to try and get some return on the last 4 years.

Right now he'd be very lucky to get the MLE over 3 years and really should of taken that 5 year offer that was on the table.

The problem I see is that his trade value right now would be at an all-time low. We'd be lucky to get anything for true value for him right now. I see that Donnie Walsh is interested in AI, whilst the Knicks don't have a whole heap of stuff which we would value in a trade, I'd at least see if he was interested.

I'm still in the 'blow it up' faction, so I'd be prepared to move anyone at the moment to see some improvement. Another part of me is in the 'tank it up' faction as I'd love to see John Wall in a Cats jersey, problem is Stern punishes tankers, and the lolcats just aren't lucky enough regardless of the chances. The next draft looks pretty weak in PG talent outside of Wall.

[tsherkin]

tsherkin, you have to understand that EVERYONE on our team is not playing (offensively) anywhere close to last season. You're over-analyzing things. Nobody could expect every player to regress so badly in just one offseason. But it all starts at the point guard spot, especially with Ray because he's not directing players on the court. It's like everyone is standing around waiting for Ray to brick a jump shot because he's taken so many bad perimeter shots this season. Lots of passing, actually love the passing, but nobody is cutting to the hoop and nobody is going strong to the hoop with the ball.

I'm not overanalyzing things. My short analysis is:

a) The Cats weren't a good offensive last team last year
b) they gave up a better scorer for a weaker scorer
c) guys are shooting poorly, but Felton's already an inefficient scorer
d) their team performance is terrible, but they added a good scorer
e) that good scorer will improve the quality of the team's offense

What am I over-analyzing?

And I just want to say that it's not entirely Ray's fault because I think Crash needs to be way more aggressive on offense.

Really? Because I got the distinct impression he was busy matching Emeka Okafor's rebounding volume while playing good defense, and that he wasn't a really good volume scorer. He's a fine offensive weapon, but I think he's doing exactly what the team needs him to do and should generally be left in peace to do his thing.

Anyway, how is life with the Raptors? Our sh*tty team is only 2 games behind yours!

We are arguably the worst defense since the 3pt shot was brought to the NBA.

Fortunately, we are also one of the best offenses the league has seen in that timeframe as well, so we're really bipolar!

[fatlever]

tsherkin - i thought you pretty much summed up things perfectly. couldnt agree more with what you said. in the same breath, battery is also right that all our players have seemingly regressed with not much explanation other than random slump.

felton pretty much showed his pluses and weakneses in that last 2 mins last night. when we put ray back in the game for flip you could see an immediate impact on defense. ray has become a great defender. he was giving nelson fits on those last few plays, something flip could not do. but on the other end of the floor ray also went into hero mode pounded the ball for 20 seconds went 1 vs magic and eventually turned the ball over in the lane.

hopefully jackson in the backcourt can help take the pressure off ray and take the ball away from him on offense. let ray do what he does best which is play defense and make a few plays here and there on offense.

and waydown... thanks for answering the question. nobody seems to want to address what to do with ray. resigning him to a long term deal is a bad move. we need to try to move him this year so we can get something in return.

[tsherkin]

tsherkin - i thought you pretty much summed up things perfectly. couldnt agree more with what you said. in the same breath, battery is also right that all our players have seemingly regressed with not much explanation other than random slump.

Yup, that seems spot-on. I don't disagree, but I happen to think there's a connection. More reliance on weaker players and fewer options as far as spacing the floor and attacking from different spots mean more reliance on the weakest parts of the offense.

Diaw is about as anti-consistent as it gets, year-to-year, with chronic issues of conditioning and effort. That was true in Atlanta and Phoenix, and it remains true in Charlotte. Your PG and your other primary playmaker are struggling and you don't have creators. You also lost your post scorer.

Is it any small wonder all of your other players, none of whom is especially good at creating offense for himself or others?

hopefully jackson in the backcourt can help take the pressure off ray and take the ball away from him on offense. let ray do what he does best which is play defense and make a few plays here and there on offense.

Yep, that seems like a really good start.

and waydown... thanks for answering the question. nobody seems to want to address what to do with ray. resigning him to a long term deal is a bad move. we need to try to move him this year so we can get something in return.

I'm all over the "Felton for Steve Blake" train... of course, that's a defensive backslide, but it's the principle of the thing. If you can find a semi-competent pick-and-roll PG who can hit the 3 at 38%+ and defend reasonably well (this isn't Blake, of course, because he's not a good defender), then that's a way better option.

I happen to think Blake would improve the team a lot, though, because the offensive improvement would be more than the defensive regression, IMO.

[BigSlam]

I wouldn't have paid Felts a lot of coin over the summer. Sure as heck wouldn't be opening the wallet for him too wide now!!

[fatlever]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/bobcat ... 65882.html
Bobcats Point Guards Disaray Truly Mystifying

yeah, its pretty bad. that past play by felton against philly was a disaster.

felton is obviously struggling mentally. maybe he just doesnt have the upstairs capacity to handle LBs offense. i never really thought of felton as a thinking mans pg. he was much more dangerous when he could just go 100mph and not have to think about 90+ plays with 4 variations of each play.

everyone keep pointing back to last season saying "but felton was playing great last season" meh, he was playing ok. i seem to remember several games at the end of year where i was happy to see dj come in the game.

as for dj... yeah, he looks shell shocked. his confidence is gone. maybe he doesnt have the fortitude to handle LBs daily ranting. maybe he doesnt have the leadership qualities needed to run LBs offense.

i'm gonna have a hard time getting excited about our chances to win any game as long as felton is starting and as long as DJ keeps looking like a major bust.

[Rich4114]

Why doesn't anyone ever talk about the way our spacing is on offense? Focus on this on tonights game. Just look how cluttered it is when guys are all bunched up in one space. We're the easiest team in the NBA to defend. If you want to drive to the hoop you must travel through at least 4 defenders. We also mainly stand around on offense and wait for someone to come up for a predictable pick. When that happens, everyone else moves closer into the paint so it's hard for the guy setting the pick to get a clean pass thrown his way. Look at how many alley oups are batted away - it's sort of amazing.

Blame the PG's if you will, but the biggest problem i have with them is they can't seem to shoot. Other than that, it's everyone elses fault (including LB's). We had a few games where Raja Bell was talking about spacing. A few extra inches makes a big differences, and I believe it was when we lit up Atlanta. Watch other teams who know how to score and what they do. Space the floor, drive to the hoop, spread the ball around, wait for an open shot or clean lane.

Defensively, this team seems to get it. We defend way better than when we did while Bernie the franchise reaper was here. But offensively, either they don't listen to the coach or the coach just expects them to figure this out on their own. When guys miss shots, especially open ones they look really bad when the losses are piling up.

I think this explains our ridiculously high turnover rate. It's not like we're tossing balls out into the stands, we're getting balls batted away, stolen, intercepted, and blocked. How about Wallace? He's shooting worse than Felton and DJ somehow. Add all of this up and we're lucky we won a game.

[Blazer22]

I feel sorry for you guys that two other elite PGs were taken in the draft over Felton. I never understood why Felton got so much hype coming out of UNC in his 3rd year. Ty Lawson who also take out his 3rd year from UNC seems to be a super star in the making.

[fatlever]

add jennings and ridnour to the growing list of pgs who have outplayed felton this year.

after flip came in and ran the point better than felton does anyone think LB will make that switch soon and start flip?

[thruthefire]

IMO, either Felton or Augustin need to be in the starting lineup. I refuse to watch Flip Murray start over our two lottery point guards. That position went from being possibly our strongest to our worst. Play the two together again! It'll work, I promise.

[fatlever]

i'm ok with letting dj start. he needs to get his confidence back. maybe sitting on the bench isnt the best thing for him right now. i can live with his poor play cause he is still learning. there is no excuse for ray. flip over ray.