On Nash's potential 3rd MVP, our current record, and our D

[rsavaj]

According to ESPN's MVP Watch, Steve Nash is currently your frontrunner in the race for the NBA's most prestigious individual award, and our own MVP tracker doesn't disagree much -- it lists Nash second behind the incumbent, LeBron James. Could it be that Nash is on track to capture his the third MVP of his career, giving him the same number of trophies as Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, & Moses Malone (and more than Tim Duncan, Karl Malone, & Bob Pettit)?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=3978

Fantastic post that we should all read.

[DirtyDez]

While he is a fantastic player and one of my favorite Suns' of all time i don't think his career legacy deserves to be the same as the other 3x MVP winners.

[-SDU-]

Which is the same attitude that lead to Dirk winning when Nash had an even better year than his 2 MVP years. I don't like that - if he is good enough then his legacy and the man himself deserve it

[BurningHeart]

Which is the same attitude that lead to Dirk winning when Nash had an even better year than his 2 MVP years. I don't like that - if he is good enough then his legacy and the man himself deserve it

Thats for damn sure. Maybe he IS that damn good.

[raff]

Well its pretty hard to come close to picking a MVP 12 games into the season. How about we see how he is going say, mid season, all-star break.

Anyway, I don't like the idea that someone shouldn't win the MVP just because it doesn't fit in with precedence. It's a regular season award. If Nash is the best regular season player for the season, then he should win. It shouldn't matter that he might join a group of players where some people don't think he belongs. People's perspectives on how things should turn out shouldn't shadow a player's performance during the season.

[Spartan13]

Nash isnt the best regular season player, but he could well be the most valuable, and if he is he deserves to win his third just to see the look on Shaqs face.

But if Phoenix finishes top 4 and Carmelo cools off then I think Nash is worthy. I also don't understand why nobody ever talks about Dwight, that team is as built around him as the Suns are around Nash.

[RaisingArizona]

Everyone keeps saying he's not that good but in reality, he is that good. If he keeps the suns winning while putting up 17 and 13, I don't see why he couldn't win another MVP. Stats/records like how many all star games/mvp's are seriously overrated, especially with comparing to past players which is impossible to do.

[Sun Scorched]

MVP has everything to do with a players impact on that team.

Nash may not have the stat line that other NBA superstars do, but he definately has a larger impact on his team than most.

And +1 to the arguement against the logic for Nash not winning a 3rd MVP. Everyone in the league was confused/pissed about Dirk winning that... and he had to accept it after they got absolutely flamed by the Warriors.... what a joke.

[tsherkin]

The MVP award isn't important, it's stupid. SHAQ has a single, lone MVP.

MVP voting is of much more significance.

I still think that it's basically an insult to better players if Nash ends up with a third MVP, and I think he didn't deserve his first one, either. 06, sure, that was epic and he richly deserved to walk away with the Maurice Podoloff that year, but I really do believe that legacy issues are of some concern and worth handling.

Dirk winning in 2007 wasn't a joke. People don't remember that the MVP is a regular-season award and that Dirk's Mavs were nasty and won 67 games while Dirk himself shooting a 50/40/90 and posting about 25, 9 and 3.5 on a TS over 60%. He had a GREAT year and his team really excelled as well. They were the 2nd-best offense in the league and the 5th best defense, and then yeah, Dirk, Jason Terry and Jerry Stackhouse played some of the worst ball I've ever seen against the Warriors.

Then he went out and got himself one of the best mid-post games in league history and small defenders became less of an issue. There's no sense ripping on Dirk, he EARNED that MVP in the regular season, a lot more so than Nash did in 05 (or 07, for that matter).

[MaryvalesFinest]

I'd rather see Nash get a medal or something for opposing the war/wars way back in 02 or 03 at the all-star game. Anyone remember when he wore that one anti-war t-shirt? That was awesome

[harshey1388]

I'd rather see Nash get a medal or something for opposing the war/wars way back in 02 or 03 at the all-star game. Anyone remember when he wore that one anti-war t-shirt? That was awesome

granted you downplayed the fact that nashy could win another MVP you said something semi nice about him... im in shock.. you used NASH and AWESOME in the same post!!!

[hitachi7]

the backlash if he wins a 3rd would just be insane, MVP has always been "choose the player who has had the greatest impact out of the contending teams (I'd say top 4-5 record in the NBA applies here)," that's why Wade had no chance last year, Kobe had no chance until 2007, and Lebron had no chance until last year

the award just gets talked about wayyyyy too much, and Nash doesn't deserve the hate that's going to follow if he wins a 3rd

[b-ball forever]

I like the fact that Dirk won MVP in 2007... Watching him have to go collect that award right after getting clowned by the 8TH seeded Warriors in the playoffs first round biggest postseason upset in NBA history was mega-awesomeness, just amplied the comedy of epic failness choke and joke job of the 06-07 Mavs.

[aIvin adams]

I like the fact that Dirk won MVP in 2007... Watching him have to go collect that award right after getting clowned by the 8TH seeded Warriors in the playoffs first round biggest postseason upset in NBA history was mega-awesomeness, just amplied the comedy of epic failness choke and joke job of the 06-07 Mavs.

^^ these are my feelings exactly. except i refer to it as the epic choke and joke job of the 05-07 mavs.

i remember a lot of people talking smack about how humiliating it would be for nash to receive the MVP in '06 and then lose to the lakers in the first round. and then, of course, the suns made an amazing comeback because the suns are the greatest team in the history of teamwork.


i cant see how one can say that nash getting a 3rd presents 'legacy problems' and then also say that it's a regular season award. it's not like the string of regular seasons nash has put (and continues to put) together on the suns isn't among the best ever.

[tsherkin]

i cant see how one can say that nash getting a 3rd presents 'legacy problems' and then also say that it's a regular season award. it's not like the string of regular seasons nash has put (and continues to put) together on the suns isn't among the best ever.

06, that was an epic performance. 05 was good, even though he had a mega-load of talent, because any time you win over 60 games, it's special. But that wasn't an MVP-caliber season compared to what others were achieving the same year.

Steve Nash is not as good as the other players to win 3 MVPs, so it is indeed an issue of mishandled legacy if he does indeed win a third. When you rank a player, you consider his accolades, and it is unfair by far to look at Steve Nash in the same light as players such as Larry Bird.

Nash is good, but not that good, not at that level as a player. It's not correct for him to have a similar level of recognition.

[WTFsunsFTW]

you guys are clouding the objective of the award with the politics and backlash potential. That is very disappointing. The MVP award is for what that player did that year, not what they did the last 1,3,10 years.

Get your heads out of your asses. Judge him on the present, not the past.

for serious

[hitachi7]

i cant see how one can say that nash getting a 3rd presents 'legacy problems' and then also say that it's a regular season award. it's not like the string of regular seasons nash has put (and continues to put) together on the suns isn't among the best ever.

06, that was an epic performance. 05 was good, even though he had a mega-load of talent, because any time you win over 60 games, it's special. But that wasn't an MVP-caliber season compared to what others were achieving the same year.

Steve Nash is not as good as the other players to win 3 MVPs, so it is indeed an issue of mishandled legacy if he does indeed win a third. When you rank a player, you consider his accolades, and it is unfair by far to look at Steve Nash in the same light as players such as Larry Bird.

Nash is good, but not that good, not at that level as a player. It's not correct for him to have a similar level of recognition.

You're right in a way, but MVPs have had very little effect on defining players' legacies. We know how good Shaq was regardless of how many MVPs he won, and more MVPs wouldn't change his legacy at all. However, like you said Nash shouldn't be looked at in the same light as the other players who won 3. He's really really really **** good, just not that good.

[hitachi7]

So in a sense # of MVPs can overrate a player, but lack of MVPs will not underrate a player.

[visions]

Nash is good, but not that good, not at that level as a player. It's not correct for him to have a similar level of recognition.

I get where you are coming from but then what about players who have won championship rings and players who haven't? For instance Scott Williams has a ring and Karl Malone does not. Does that mean SW was a better PF than Malone? Obviously not.

As much as awards and things contribute to a player's legacy, they aren't the be all and end all IMO.
If Jordan had never won a regular season or playoff MVP award, we would all still rank him as the greatest (or one of) player of all time.

If, by season's end, Nash truly is the MVP then he deserves the award based purely on that and not on legacy or anything.

[tsherkin]

I get where you are coming from but then what about players who have won championship rings and players who haven't? For instance Scott Williams has a ring and Karl Malone does not. Does that mean SW was a better PF than Malone? Obviously not.

I'm not even talking about championships, I'm talking about players who have an elite impact on both ends of the floor and had a similar impact on their teams.

If Jordan had never won a regular season or playoff MVP award, we would all still rank him as the greatest (or one of) player of all time.

Horrible example. MJ was exciting and what-not, but his first MVP came in 88, when he was so obviously the best player in the league they couldn't deny it anymore. AND he was also DPOY that year. IN any case, it was functionally clear that he was the best in the league at that point.

And then he collected rings, and he built an image of being a winner and that helped lead to titles. But again, accolades followed. Volume, efficient scoring with low turnovers, outstanding defense and team success? That's a perennial MVP candidate.

If, by season's end, Nash truly is the MVP then he deserves the award based purely on that and not on legacy or anything.

It remains a problem, but again, I don't think he's in position to deserve it this year compared to what other guys are going to do in the league if they're healthy and based on similar team results.