After 12 games, who has earned starting/reserve roles?

[Dan's with the Wolves]

Rambis has been giving out minutes to 11-12 player a night. Rightfully so. He needs to get as good of a look as possible at the current roster to make trade deadline and offseason decisions.

But if he absolutely wanted to win a game with the currently available roster. (No Kevin Love) Who has earned (used very loosely) starter minutes given the first 10 games or so? Who would fill out the eight man rotation?

Starting 5
Jefferson
Pecherov
Gomes
Brewer
Sessions

I'd go with the above starting five to get some inside outside scoring balance with Al on the inside, Gomes and Pecherov from three, Brewer for defense and athleticism and Sessions to set it all up.

Bench Rotation
Hollins
Wilkins
Flynn

Off the bench, I would bring in Hollins for either Jefferson or Pecherov, Wilkins for Gomes or Brewer, and Flynn for Sessions.

Is there a better lineup to win a game now?

With Love back who would be the primary backup to Jefferson/Love? Hollins or Pecherov?

[Vindicater]

Good thread.

From watching the games I would say we need to play this 9 man rotation. (WIth no Love)

C- Ryan Hollins - The kid has proven to be a defensive presence, albeit if he can stay out trouble.

PF- Jefferson - Obviouslly the focus of the offense.

SF- Gome - Mr Do it all, helps stablise the lineup.

SG - Wilkins - Brewer needs to take a step back and reflect on his game, Wilkins has been a much better influence on the court with his hustle and skill.

PG - Sessions - Better at setting up other teammates.

6th man - Flynn - Either for Sessions or Wilkins

7th man - Brewer - Needs to regain form by beating on teams second units.

8th man - Pecherov - A shooter to work off of Jefferson.

9th man - Pavlovic - A high risk/high reward player off the bench, try him for a few minutes to see if he is hot, if he is, keep him, if hes not, dont put him in again.

[Dan's with the Wolves]

How would you change the rotations with Love back?

[Devilzsidewalk]

pg Sessions
sg Ellington
sf Gomes
pf Jefferson
c Love
6 Flynn
7 Hollins
8 Brewer
9 Wilkins
10 Cardinal
11 Pecherov
12 Jawai
13 Pavlovic

[lobishome]

I can't understand this thread. Who cares the starting/reserve players if the 90% of them will not be minnie players after 2011?

[mandurugo]

I can't understand this thread. Who cares the starting/reserve players if the 90% of them will not be minnie players after 2011?

Interesting idea, so you are suggesting that wolves fans shouldn't talk about the current team on the the wolves message board?

[Menyun]

I may be wrong, but I believe what was meant is that the question is moot. It doesn't matter what we think the starting rotation should be based on play. It is obvious Rambis is going to develop players he sees as the future at the expense of wins now so the best starting five won't be on the floor. Sessions will never, EVER, start in front of Flynn unless an injury occurs or he just completely falls off the map as a player. Same with Brewer.

[Dan's with the Wolves]

Yeah, Rambis will continue to play 11-12 players a night to develop talent. My question is which of them actually deserves to play based on their on court performance. In other words, who is showing results from the talent development process and how do they fit together as a team in their various roles.

[Menyun]

It is certainly a valid discussion. I just don't think people should get their hopes up because I can't see Rambis changing his MO.

Sessions has definitely outplayed Flynn, especially recently and should start if that is the criteria. Having watched Flynn for two years at Syracuse, he looks extremely hesitant; something I never saw before.

Hollins, Pech, and Jawai absolutely drive me nuts with how badly they fumble the ball around on rebounds and receiving passes. Jawai appears to be the only one that might eventually develop some decent hands. Hollins is just way too emotional and constantly plays using only that and no IQ. I would much rather see Pech and Jawai.

Wilkins should also see more time instead of Gomes or Sasha.

[Klomp]

Without Love:

Flynn
Brewer
Gomes
Pecherov
Jefferson
-------------
Sessions
Hollins
Wilkins / Pavlovic
Ellington
Jawai
Cardinal

[Wolves2011]

At this point I'd say few players have "earned" a starters position. If you mean this year, no on has earned it. If you count past years, I'd say Jefferson and Sessions have earned starters positions

C - Jefferson
PF - Love [but won't talk about him till end since we haven't seen him this year]
PG/SG - Sessions

Some players have "lost" it, not played as well as hoped :

Pavlovic (a shooter, who can't shoot)
Ellington ( a shooter, who can't shoot)
Hollins - hasn't looked effective to me.
Jawai (has no hands)
Wilkins - can't shoot
Cardinal - can't shoot
Hart - hasn't played

And some players are there by DEFAULT

** Gomes - no one's better at his position, but not a starter on a "good" team
** Flynn- can't get create for teammates, get ast/turnover ratio to reasonable level (Sessions seems to be figuring it out lately)
** Pecherov - can shoot better than the others. Big enough to grab rebounds and be a big body in the middle
** Brewer - high energy, good defender, but still can't shoot worth a "****".

If I was trying to win, I'd make Flynn the 6th man, for instant offense.

If I was developing with an eye to keeping and didn't care about winning, I'd start the following group, since I think Gomes has plateaued.

Jefferson
Pecherov
Brewer
Sessions
Flynn

If I was show casing Gomes and Brewer, I'd keeping them both in the starting lineup, hoping they'd get better but expecting to be trading them at the trading deadline.

In my view the likely line up with Love back.

Jefferson
Love
Gomes- show casing
Brewer - show casing
Flynn - developing and possibly show casing for summer.

Pecherov - best positive surprise
Sessions - best talent who isn't being used to his potential. I'd start him if I wasn't show casing Brewer and Gomes.

The other "question - who to keep Flynn or Sessions, thus far, it would be Sessions. He is actually a PG. Flynn has been a 6 ft shooting guard, albeit one who works at defense, unlike another short shooting guard we had recently.

[revprodeji]

I think that Flynn/Brewer are long term and need minutes to improve. It is not about "getting a look" as much as letting them work through their issues.

[Wolves2011]

I think that Flynn/Brewer are long term and need minutes to improve. It is not about "getting a look" as much as letting them work through their issues.

If Brewer is still shooting in the mid-30's at the end of the season, with his time for development and shots he's been taking, I'd say that experiment is over. Kahn told Gomes and Brewer they had SOMETHING TO PROVE before the season. So far, nothing has been proven.

If it were up to me, at the trading deadline, if there hasn't been substantial improvement, enough to believe that Brewer could shoot 45% someday, I'd trade him at the trading deadline to clear cap space for the summer - when we can get a STAR.

Same goes for Gomes. He has to at least show enough improvement to make a starter on a championship caliber team, or I'd definitely trade him at the trading deadline [he has a lower threshold because we have him signed to a "reasonable" contract] For Gomes, he has to prove he can be a slasher and not just a spot up shooter. Not there yet.

At this point I'd say both are gone at the trading deadline for expiring contracts.

Note: by trading them we IMPROVE BOTH OUT CHANCE to get a very good FREE AGENT NEXT SUMMER and our HIGH LOTTERY PICK

[Breakdown777]

I think that everyone needs to slow down. Enough speculation already.

New team, New coach, New system, New (crappy) offense. It's gonna take awhile for the players in question to DEVELOP to the new change associated with the team (or league for the rookies). Brew and Gomes and Flynn and anyone else are probably working on figuring out what their coaches want and need for the system just as much as their nagging problems (brew's shot, gomes driving/aggressiveness, flynns PG skills). Give it time. Stop throwing the guys who aren't perfect under the bus. It's only been 12 games and we are without our 2nd best player.

My starters based on development and what is good for the team:
(just because love isn't playing doesn't mean he hasn't earned the spot)
PG - Flynn
SG - Brewer (Sessions)
SF - Gomes (Brewer)
PF - Love (Gomes)
C - Al

[Vindicater]

I think that Flynn/Brewer are long term and need minutes to improve. It is not about "getting a look" as much as letting them work through their issues.

FLynn yes, Brewer I dont think we will keep. He would be in the perfect situation somewhere like Boston or Cleveland where he could focus on what hes good at and strengthen it. Here he is relied on to do other things and its starting to show.

[deeney0]

Before last game, only Jonny had earned a starting role. Now Jonny and Al have earned starting roles. After that, I'd say the closest is Sessions. Love by default when he gets back. No one else is even close.

[Wolves2011]

Before last game, only Jonny had earned a starting role. Now Jonny and Al have earned starting roles. After that, I'd say the closest is Sessions. Love by default when he gets back. No one else is even close.

flynn has earned a starting role at what position?

The only position he plays is PG. He literally has more turn overs than assists and he only averages 3.2 assists per game 38 assists and 43 turnovers. He creates no offense for anyone but himself. Thats not a PG in my book.

Thats not EARNING a starting role on my team. I'd keep playing him to develop him, but he's earned nothing at the PG position.

Sessions 40 assists and 21 turnovers, not great but much better.

In Sessions last 4 games he has 21 assists and 6 turnovers, averaging 26 minutes a game. He also had 41 pts in those 4 games. He also shot 51% in those last 4 games. He is starting to "get it".

[deeney0]

Create offense for who? This team doesn't have anyone to create for. Jonny through up an alley-oop last game to Hollins and he jumped to soon, caught it when he landed, went up again, and missed the shot (I think he was fouled - but still).

[Wolves2011]

Create offense for who? This team doesn't have anyone to create for. Jonny through up an alley-oop last game to Hollins and he jumped to soon, caught it when he landed, went up again, and missed the shot (I think he was fouled - but still).

We have option A and option B as point guards.

Option A 38 assists and 43 turnovers - Flynn

Option B 40 assists and 21 turnovers. - Sessions

Sessions is managing to create for people much better than Flynn and he is playing with guys who don't shoot as well as the first string.

If neither one of Sessions an Flynn was having any luck your argument might make some sense. But we have our "little experiment".

compare option A and option B. Option B has been much more effective in creating for others. flynn has FAILED at PG thusfar. I blame part of that on the triangle. The triangle has hurt Sessions also. Last season Sessions averaged

16 pts, 7.5 assists and only 2.5 turnovers per 36 minutes

this year Sessions is averaging

12 pts, 5 assists and 2.7 turnovers per 36 minutes.

I blame the drop in production to the triangle. But Sessions is still producing much better than Flynn.

[Vindicater]

Sessions has also been in the leauge for three seasons, give flynn the time to adjust and he will be fine.