Victory Cigar - Knicks 11/22 - A win is a win

[exculpatory]

Truth - 33 points on 50% shooting, 6-7 from 3, almost every point in OT until KG finally joined the team for the buzzer beater, 9R, 6A, crucial block, 2 steals is a "props to Paul", "good game Paul" game? Are you frigging kidding me? You just witnessed VINTAGE Truth MAGNIFICENCE!

Props to RR for almost trip dub, and to Perk for 16 points and 12R and solid D.

This cigar = Truth. No debate unless you are blind.

Further game comment to follow.

Biscuit - You are universally despised and WRONG for the 200th time. You are not needed or wanted here by 95% of us. Disappear you troll.

[perfectblack999]

doesnt make any sense to pick anyone but PP

[loscy]

Pierce should be unanimous in this one. KG "won" the game but Paul is the only reason we even had a chance at a W.

[captain green]

1st 30 game I think for celtics. The truth for me although I always vote for triple double but it wasn't one next time gadget,next time.
nice solid game from rondo, almost triple double.
This was almost unwatchable but its still a win

[SonicYouth34]

Paul.

[Slartibartfast]

I go Pierce, but with the caveat that it was one of the ugliest good games he's had. His spot-up 3s were tremendous, but his on-ball work was a mixed bag. For every clean look/foul he generated on the 3/4 pick and roll, he would get caught in no-man's land. Hopefully, we can add a further wrinkle to our offense in the future.

[exculpatory]

Truth - 33 points on 50% shooting, 6-7 from 3, almost every point in OT until KG finally joined the team for the buzzer beater, 9R, 6A, crucial block, 2 steals is a "props to Paul", "good game Paul" game. You just witnessed vintage Truth magnificence!

Props to RR for almost trip dub, and to Perk for 16 points and 12R and solid D.

This cigar = Truth. No debate unless you are blind.

Further game comment to follow.

Biscuit - You are universally despised and WRONG for the 200th time. You are not needed or wanted here by 95% of us. Disappear you troll.

Game comment:
The Truth was simply MAGNIFICENT - and except for a couple of games, he is playing at a first/second
team All Pro level this year. And there are some who said that "he had a good game" - a perfect example of how he is taken for granted and underpraised - even by some Celtic fans.

In spite of a 10-4 record, we have significant problems that must be remedied to compete for Number 18. KG was horrible today except for 2 clutch shots. He is obviously not back yet from the injury - I put him at 50-75% of the pre-injury KG depending on the game. I remain hopeful that he will get back to at least 80% before the playoffs. Ray was horrible. We have to hope that this is a slump and not a serious permanent decline. Perk is Perk and was solid as hell today. RR was also pretty good today, but he must play this way every goddam game to make up for his inability to shoot. Eddie was slightly better today in the first half - he needs to break out of his slump. Sheed's shooting has been horrible for a bunch of games now - stop the 3s, post-up and play solid D, Sheed.

We need Big Baby back, and in my opinion, we need a trade for a true back-up point (I definitely want AI now) and/or another 3/4 like Gomes.

I will NEVER lose faith in this team, and I am ashamed of some of you guys who posted "sky is falling" **** in the game thread.

[Jammer]

Because of some recent intelligent DISCUSSIONS in some other threads,
where our learned, and extremely faithful exculpatory, as well as myself and Pete;
have disagreed, I add some comments here since I spend (waste?) so much time
studying various statistical methods of evaluation:

Today's Performances Only:

League MVP: Paul Pierce, 33 pts, 9-17 FG, 9-10 FT, 7 reb, 1 assist, 1 steal, 4 Fouls, 3 TO's
All-Star: Kendrick Perkins, 16 pts, 6-7 FG, 4-6 FT, 13 reb, 1 assist, 5 Fouls, 3 TO's, 4 Blocks
All-Star: Rajon Rondo, 14 pts, 5-13 FG, 4-8 FT, 9 reb, 10 assists, 4 steals, 1 Foul, 2 TO's
(I actually think that Rajon should be on the All-Star team because his D is so excellent)

Good Bench Players: Eddie House, Marquis Daniels

Poor performances for a starter: Kevin Garnett (despite the game winner), Ray Allen

Poor Bench Play: Rasheed Wallace, Sheldon Williams, Brian Scalabrine

So, despite 1 League MVP-like performance (Pierce),
two All-Star performances (Perk) and (Rajon),
and two good bench performances (Eddie House and Marquis Daniels);

because two starters played nothing less than poorly (KG and Ray) and
because 3 bench players played like crap (Sheed, Scal and Sheldon)

this game ended up being won on a last second shot in overtime.
It shows how important the TEAM is when talking about a team.

[PP 4 Three]

Pierce.

[Al-Haqq]

Pierce continues to prove to me he is one of if not the best clutch player in the NBA.

Season averages: 50FG% 443PT% 83FT%

[OBisHalJordan]

Ex, I agree with you on most points but I think the sky is falling sentiment is an understandable sentiment right now. Its hard to see where the team is going right now. Celtics as a team are in a rather uncertain time. Its hard to say whether Garnett is going to get back to form or if this is the injury that you don't recover from and just start to feel older after. Its even harder to discern whether Rondo will continue to be frustratingly inconsistent or put it all together. There are a lot of possible futures for the Cs:

(1) Return of Big Three: As you said, if KG gets to at least 80% of '08-09 form, the team can go deep in playoffs lead by big three.

(2) Elrod's Rondo thesis: a reorientation of the team around a big two of P-Dub and Rondo with an excellent supporting cast of KG, Allen, Perk, 'sheed, Daniels, House, Baby and Williams. Best outcome: Rondo earns contract he signed, becomes legit star and Cs go deep into playoffs. Worst outcome: Rondo can't over come shortcomings team flounders in playoffs

(3) 2004 Detroit Pistons model: KG doesn't recover, Rondo doesn't become legit star but veteran leadership and chemistry creates serious contender even though the team has no clear superstar.

(4) JoeBiscuit's Dream or the total implosion: KG doesn't recover, Rondo doesn't become legit star, Ray Allen disappears, and supporting cast doesn't step up. Team needs to be blown up but big contracts and aging stars (cough KG) make it nearly impossible.

(5) Decline to middle of pack team: age, injury, poor chemistry and failure of outcomes 1, 2 or 3 puts Celtics in category of good but not good enough to be a serious contender.

I think any of these possible outcomes are within the realm of possibility. This uncertainty is reason for a lot of the dooming saying.

[klemen4]

PP with honorable mention of Perk and RR.

[TheOGJabroni]

Not even close in this one. He even had the assist to KG's WIDE open buzzer beater.

[exculpatory]

Ex, I agree with you on most points but I think the sky is falling sentiment is an understandable sentiment right now. Its hard to see where the team is going right now. Celtics as a team are in a rather uncertain time. Its hard to say whether Garnett is going to get back to form or if this is the injury that you don't recover from and just start to feel older after. Its even harder to discern whether Rondo will continue to be frustratingly inconsistent or put it all together. There are a lot of possible futures for the Cs:

(1) Return of Big Three: As you said, if KG gets to at least 80% of '08-09 form, the team can go deep in playoffs lead by big three.

(2) Elrod's Rondo thesis: a reorientation of the team around a big two of P-Dub and Rondo with an excellent supporting cast of KG, Allen, Perk, 'sheed, Daniels, House, Baby and Williams. Best outcome: Rondo earns contract he signed, becomes legit star and Cs go deep into playoffs. Worst outcome: Rondo can't over come shortcomings team flounders in playoffs

(3) 2004 Detroit Pistons model: KG doesn't recover, Rondo doesn't become legit star but veteran leadership and chemistry creates serious contender even though the team has no clear superstar.

(4) JoeBiscuit's Dream or the total implosion: KG doesn't recover, Rondo doesn't become legit star, Ray Allen disappears, and supporting cast doesn't step up. Team needs to be blown up but big contracts and aging stars (cough KG) make it nearly impossible.

(5) Decline to middle of pack team: age, injury, poor chemistry and failure of outcomes 1, 2 or 3 puts Celtics in category of good but not good enough to be a serious contender.

I think any of these possible outcomes are within the realm of possibility. This uncertainty is reason for a lot of the dooming saying.

All of your points are well taken. I have 2 comments:

1) I think scenarios 1-3 are most likely.
2) You need to modify scenario 3 - the Truth has always been a Super Star and STILL IS a Super Star - in fact, an All Pro as well.

Ex

[exculpatory]

Because of some recent intelligent DISCUSSIONS in some other threads,
where our learned, and extremely faithful exculpatory, as well as myself and Pete;
have disagreed, I add some comments here since I spend (waste?) so much time
studying various statistical methods of evaluation:

Today's Performances Only:

League MVP: Paul Pierce, 33 pts, 9-17 FG, 9-10 FT, 7 reb, 1 assist, 1 steal, 4 Fouls, 3 TO's
All-Star: Kendrick Perkins, 16 pts, 6-7 FG, 4-6 FT, 13 reb, 1 assist, 5 Fouls, 3 TO's, 4 Blocks
All-Star: Rajon Rondo, 14 pts, 5-13 FG, 4-8 FT, 9 reb, 10 assists, 4 steals, 1 Foul, 2 TO's
(I actually think that Rajon should be on the All-Star team because his D is so excellent)

Good Bench Players: Eddie House, Marquis Daniels

Poor performances for a starter: Kevin Garnett (despite the game winner), Ray Allen

Poor Bench Play: Rasheed Wallace, Sheldon Williams, Brian Scalabrine

So, despite 1 League MVP-like performance (Pierce),
two All-Star performances (Perk) and (Rajon),
and two good bench performances (Eddie House and Marquis Daniels);

because two starters played nothing less than poorly (KG and Ray) and
because 3 bench players played like crap (Sheed, Scal and Sheldon)

this game ended up being won on a last second shot in overtime.
It shows how important the TEAM is when talking about a team.

Jammer

Excellent excellent post.

I totally agree with you on the Importance of TEAM!!!

I also obviously agree with you that the Truth's performance was "exceptional" and "League MVP-like". According to ESPN, his stat line was even MORE overwhelming than the stat line you stated above:

33 points, 9-17, 6-7 from 3 (all in transition), 9-10 FT, 9 rebounds, 6 assists (not 1), 1 steal, 2 blocks (1 of which was CRITICAL on Chandler during crunch time in OT), 3 TO. Oh, and I almost forgot, 7 of the Celtics' 9 points in OT, AND the assist on KG's buzzer beater.

Ex

P.S. I really do like your E. E. Cummings-like paragraph style - even tho you are writing bball analyses
and he was writing obtuse poetry. LOL

[Jammer]

Jammer

Excellent excellent post.

I totally agree with you on the Importance of TEAM!!!

I also obviously agree with you that the Truth's performance was "exceptional" and "League MVP-like". According to ESPN, his stat line was even MORE overwhelming than the stat line you stated above:

33 points, 9-17, 6-7 from 3 (all in transition), ... 6 assists (not 1),
Thanks for correcting a vision failure on my part.
A Seinfeld writer friend of mine once cracked
that Vasser girls are hired for that sort of thing ...
2 blocks (1 of which was CRITICAL on Chandler during crunch time in OT), ... Oh, and I almost forgot, 7 of the Celtics' 9 points in OT, AND the assist on KG's buzzer beater.

Ex

P.S. I really do like your E. E. Cummings-like paragraph style - even tho you are writing bball analyses
and he was writing obtuse poetry. LOL

Muchas Gracias. There is one poster on this board who has commented that it
annoys him to no end, partially because he feels that it makes posts longer
than they need to be.

[ValuedCeltic]

paul without a thought

[kmgarnett21]

KG was C-L-U-T-C-H making 3 of his 4 fgs in the last min of regulation & OT, including the game-winner. But the Truth kept us afloat all game long.

Good to see SOMEONE find the outside stroke for once. Rasheed needs to be benched. I'd rather see Sheldon out there before sheed comes in. Get healthy soon Big Baby. Sheed has been awful, minus 1 game, and only hurts us with his airball and brick 3's and his techs. Sorry, /rant.

[GuyClinch]

I was at the game - as i unfortunately live in NYC now. PP was absolutely the best player. Rondo was second best - very good at times too. He is alot of fun to watch Rondo with his super quickness. Perkins slides in there at third. He is a top roleplayer without a doubt..

Okay here is the thing. I don't think either Rondo or Perkins is performing worse then you would expect them too. Its KG and Ray Allen that are really playing poorly. If your watching the game with someone who doesn't know the NBA that well or the Celtics. The would simply have no idea who those guys were. They are largely invisible out there. The C's are basically a two man show with Rondo making alot of good plays with his quickness and PP pretty much having to dominate the game.

And despite what some would have you believe - Rondo despite being really the best player on the court in some regards (he is like an energizer bunny out there) - his shooting really does kill ya at times. From watching him get fouled and praying he will get a shot (which the guy behind me was doing) to everyone in the arena knowing he was going to miss that jumper at the end of regulation.

But none of that matters unless KG can play something like his old self. The guy has no lift anymore. He had a nice alley oop pass thrown his way but he couldn't get off the ground. He looks like a JAG out there. I think BBD might be able to outplay him at this point. And as for Ray Allen. I wonder if perhaps we shouldn't start MD instead. I am not kidding. He is that underwhelming live..

I think all the griping about the C's play is summed up in that we have two of the big 3 playing mediocre to bad basketball. On a side note don't bring a point and shoot camera to the game.. WTF. I tried takin a picture and like 10 mins later it decides to shoot it..

Pete

[Celtics_Champs]

Glad it is overwhelming for paul. He took over this game, and set up KG's game winner.