Amare and his vertical

garrick · Post #1 » by **garrick** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:29 am

I'm sure we've all noticed it but it seems Amare this season just can't elevate like he used to.
I have a hard time believing that some injury happened while he was recuperating from his eye injury because before he got hurt he did have decent explosiveness.
It looks like he has lost about 5 inches or so on his max vertical which shows when he goes for a dunk.

Hopefully it's just a case of getting his legs back to strength and nothing serious. I just had hoped he would regain his explosiveness by now but perhaps that is too soon?

doc shivers · Post #2 » by **doc shivers** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:43 am

I think that he is still rounding into shape, it looks like his timing is off a little. remember this man was debilitated for a long time and he was unable to do any physical activity. give him a couple of months and he will be back to the old amare. another suggestion that I heard eddie johnson give was that his depth perception could be effected by that eye. that could be why he has had trouble with turnovers and hasn't shot as well.

Post #3 » by **lilfishi22** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:55 am

I've always been on the Amare-will-prove-everyone-wrong Bandwagon but it does seem he has lost some of his hops. JohnVC pointed out that Amare now needs to gather himself for a second under the basket and then elevate whereas before he would just use his athleticism and just try to dunk everything. Before his MF surgery he had freakish athleticism and after he still had way above average athleticism but now it seems like he is struggling to get up sometimes.

It is possible however he is still getting his legs back from months of inactivity and maybe we are expecting too much from him this early in the season when he's only been back to training 2-3 months ago.

I'm still on the AWPEW bandwagon and think we should give him at least until the the end of Dec to make a case for the lost vertical.

dantian · Post #4 » by **dantian** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:56 am

I like his new way of play better than his previous. He is a lot more finesse now. Now he is not able to overpower each time he goes to rim, he has started to stay down trying to outmanuvor the defenders(s) a lot more patiently. As a byproduct, his one-on-one defense improved a lot, while not less effective scoring. Well, he is more meandering into a Karl-Malone like game now. Is that really that bad?

TXSun · Post #5 » by **TXSun** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:30 am

you gotta put yourself in his shoes. Ama're has had 2 career threating injuries (knee and eye). It's gonna take some time back to get his confidence back. Perhaps he's a more mature player and letting the game come to him rather than just jumping everyone. I'm content with his progress as he continues to improve and getting closer to being 100%.

WTFsunsFTW · Post #6 » by **WTFsunsFTW** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:18 am

Unless he has a wide open lane on a PNR, our offense slows down considerably when he gets the ball. I will give him til the allstar break before I declare him Back or Done.

His lack of significant improvement on the defensive end is what concerns me most though.

garrick · Post #7 » by **garrick** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:51 am

yeah I hope it's just because he isn't completely in shape yet. His rebounding had gone down to like 5rpg per game which is some cause for concern. I hope Gentry gets him to committing to boxing out and going for the rebounds.

Post #8 » by **lilfishi22** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:39 am

WTFsunsFTW wrote:Unless he has a wide open lane on a PNR, our offense slows down considerably when he gets the ball. I will give him til the allstar break before I declare him Back or Done.

His lack of significant improvement on the defensive end is what concerns me most though.

I don't think defense is something we should be worried about. He's been in the NBA for this long and has yet to show ANY improvement on that end. It's silly to hope for improvement now.

We should be more concerned with his athleticism and knees. If either of those go, he'll be an old jump shooting C-Webb but without the passing ability

Post #9 » by **rsavaj** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:46 pm

I just think it's kind of sad that Amare has so much trouble creating his own shot nowadays

Post #10 » by **Miklo** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:21 pm

I'm not overly concerned here. I feel that his loss of explosiveness is somewhat temporary - given that he looked better than he does now after his microfracture and before the eye injury - because the eye injury would obviously not directly affect his legs or hops.

I'm sure a lot of people here have been through injuries that don't relate to running/jumping yet keep you off the basketball court. I had arthroscopic surgery to repair the torn TFCC ligament in my wrist, which kept me out of competitive sports for 3 months. During this time I didn't even work out my legs or anything. Once I got out of the cast and went through physical therapy, I was still getting winded and had lost some of the muscle strength in my arms AND legs. I wasn't fully back to my regular basketball self for a year.

Amar'e was unable to work anything out during his eye injury as well because he had to lay horizontally, etc. I know that the training/rehab available to him after his recovery is worlds better than what I would have done, BUT he had a lot more to recover than I did. To get from practically bed-ridden to being one of the top 5 most athletic PF's in the game (because keep in mind at his peak he is top 5 if not THE best athletically at the 4) will be a long and trying process for him.

I want his timetable to be as quick as possible but we may not know if/when he will be back to full force this whole season. Whether or not we as an organization can afford that patience is another issue, but as far as his career I wouldn't count anything out even if he isn't posterizing people right and left until next season.

justinb80 · Post #11 » by **justinb80** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:52 pm

Strange that we're worried about Amare's hops, even though he's had, what, four straight 20+ point games on 63% shooting?

realsunsfan · Post #12 » by **realsunsfan** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:07 pm

justinb80 wrote:Strange that we're worried about Amare's hops, even though he's had, what, four straight 20+ point games on 63% shooting?

Yeah, it is, and all the talk of trading Amare or Barbosa??........just unreal. We are at the top of out division with an 11-3 record, playing well but there are still people that will complain and complain. The fact that he has to recondition his legs from a 6 month total layoff means nothing to these people. Barbosa has a wrist injury, his right (shooting) wrist and is struggling a bit with his shot and all you hear is lets trade him.........give me a break already.........geez....

NashtyNas · Post #13 » by **NashtyNas** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:34 pm

WTFsunsFTW wrote:Unless he has a wide open lane on a PNR, our offense slows down considerably when he gets the ball. I will give him til the allstar break before I declare him Back or Done.

His lack of significant improvement on the defensive end is what concerns me most though.

Did you watch the game yesterday?

You guys are judging way too early. Look at the stretch of games he has put together, is it 4 or 5 now with 20+ points? Last night against the Pistons, he was doing everything he needed to defensively and rebounding the ball, same with Frye. Yeah, his leap is not there yet, but you can see he's getting his feet back. He will be back, give it time. I'm betting by January you see the explosion back and we become even more unstoppable with Lopez coming back soon. :pray:

tac45 · Post #14 » by **tac45** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:43 pm

i don't get the problem..

so what if he has lost his vertical?! he still dunks in peoples faces, he's got even better with the midrangeshoot, he works hard to get to a 100% ..and that is the scary part..

why always cry cry cry?! should up and cheer this team is playing very well,..yes this TEAM!!!

i don't give a $%&/ if amare even dunks.. if ma man scores, and the team is rolling i am fine with it..

Sun Scorched · Post #15 » by **Sun Scorched** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:47 pm

Stoudemire has needed to start developing his finesse game for some time now. This isn't a bad thing, it's what carries big men into their later years. Finesse also = improved footwork, which Amare could stand to improve at.

Plus, generally:

Power + shooting = Face-up game
Finesse + footwork = Back-to-the-basket game

Amare would be as dangerous as an ambidextrous QB had he both sets to choose from.

With Amare's jumper, if he developed a back-to-the-basket game he could be as dangerous as Dirk is with his fadeaway.

garrick · Post #16 » by **garrick** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:25 am

Is there anyway we can get Hakeem to coach Amare in the offseason to learn some post moves?

Post #17 » by **lilfishi22** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:11 am

Amare should be able to pull off Hakeem post moves, if he learnt.

dantian · Post #18 » by **dantian** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:52 am

lilfishi22 wrote:Amare should be able to pull off Hakeem post moves, if he learnt.

Nobody is giving Amare the chance to learn from failure like Al Jefferson and D. Howard got with their teams. That skill doesn't just grow on trees by itself. :roll:

Biff · Post #19 » by **Biff** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:17 am

Amare's rebounding woes are far more concerning than his vertical. Dude has become a TERRIBLE rebounder. He was average before, but he's not even remotely good now. 7rpg in 37mpg? WTF!

JohnVancouver · Post #20 » by **JohnVancouver** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:51 am

Biff wrote:Amare's rebounding woes are far more concerning than his vertical. Dude has become a TERRIBLE rebounder. He was average before, but he's not even remotely good now. 7rpg in 37mpg? WTF!

Far as I'm concerned anything above 6 is acceptable and if he gets to 10, I'd be over the moon. But 7-8, fine.