Why the Celtics lost to Orlando !!!

[GregB]

When did I actually state you specifically said any of those things? I was just referring to the general sentiment that I have heard from a lot of Magic fans. The Jameer all star comment has been made a zillion times by magic fans. Also, My comments about shooting worse was a jab at you because you keep implying that the magic shot poorly. When in reality they shot at about their average.

Well then, if you acknowledge that I didn't say those things then I don't see the point of you bringing that up in response to one of my posts. No one said the Magic shot worse than the Celtics, and no one brought up Jameer being an All-Star. You say you are an objective poster, well if so, don't inject things that I didn't say, and have no relation to the discussion

Again this is total crap, Yes you did shoot 41% on 70/FGA instead of your average 45%. But you also shot 45% on 22 FGA attemps from 3 instead of your normal 37%. You guys scored a total of 73 pts on your FGA. If you had shot your average% from the field. You would have score 78 pts from the field. Netting you an extra 5 pts. Hardly a poor shooting night for the magic. Just slightly below average.

As far as your FT%, You guys are shooting 69% from the line on the year and you shot 58% during the game. If you had shot your normal percentage you would have scored another 3 points.

Thats a measly 8 points extra if you had shot at your averages. So Please stop with the but Vince shot awful while ignorinig that a lot of your player shot well above their averages. The magic at worse shot slightly below average. Certainly not a bad shooting night.

Now lets look at the Celtics numbers. They shot 34% from the field on 87 FGA attempts and 10% from 3 on 19 3pt attemps. On the year we are shooting 49% from the field and 35% from 3. This is where the huge difference in the numbers lie. If we had shot at our averages, We would have scored 92 pts from the field versus the 62 pts we scored from the field. Thats 30 point difference. Again 30 freaking points.


Yet, You can't see why Celtics fans think if they simply shot better they would have won? Who's being the homer? Those numbers are pretty telling. If you dont believe me do the math yourself. Sounds like a good time for your convincing "woulda, shoulda, coulda, didn't" argument.

You're grasping at straws now by trying to compute the exact point differences certain things would have made here and there. These calculations are absolutely irrelevant. The point I was making was that even if the Celtics shot WORSE, the Magic did NOT play up to their standards either. That's all I said and I don't see why you are so fanatically trying to argue with me about something that is TRUE. By getting into the gritty details of it, you are just wasting time. At the end of the day, it doesn't take these statistics to know that the Magic are NOT an 83-point team, they don't commit that many unforced turnovers, and Dwight Howard isn't a 9 PPG type of player. If you can honestly say that those things are the norm, then okay the Magic played great or played their average game Otherwise, cut the crap.

It's okay to think that you would've played better and you might have won if you actually made your shots etc., but be objective and apply that standard to BOTH teams. The problem is you are cherry-picking statistics, and you only consider the Celtics in your world of hypotheticals. You refuse to accept that if the Magic played better themselves (and this can mean a lot more than simply turning a missed shot into a made shot ), they might STILL have won. But no, for you, it's all about "if the Celtics made their threes, they win and nothing else matters, period". LOL

Ultimately, these what-if games are boring, and we can go on all day long speculating on the unknown to no end and still get nowhere. It's pointless.

You guys are so classy. Kudos to you for being better than us sore losers. But I have read at least 3-4 posters on your board wish physical harm on Celtics players. That's something you don't see anyone on here doing. So please don't try and make it like Magic fans are so much classier because they congratulated cavs fans for beating them. If I respect the opposing teams fanbase, I have no problem with giving respect to the opposing team. I just have zero respect for your team and its fan base.

I'm not calling Celtics fans sore losers because they are NOT. But I think you in particular, are for some reason allergic to giving credit where it is due. If you weren't then maybe you wouldn't be so defensive since I never even slandered the Celts in any of my posts.

If you even opened up any thread involving Garnett or injured players, majority of the population agrees that wishing a player ill is just sick. I don't care if there are a couple of idiots who didn't think so, because they don't represent the entire fanbase. There are idiots crawling on this board too, but I don't take you all as the same kind of poster.

I never told you not to post here. Post wherever you want, Just don't be surprised when people give you **** when you are posting on an opposing teams board. Especially the board of one of your biggest rivals. I have tried to argue the facts, thats why I took the time to run the numbers to support my viewpoint. You are the one attacking me with the strawman argument that i am simply a homer who hates the magic.

I never said you told me not to post here, but by taking a jab at me coming in here with my two cents is implying that you have an issue with me doing so. And why should I not be surprised? Outside of you and MyInsatiableOne (who is actually a pretty cool guy lately), I haven't been given "****" by posting in any rival team's forum. It's a message board and we are adults.

And no I haven't made up any strawmen in this argument, the only one who has gone off course is you by bringing up that BS about how Magic fans say they shot worse or that crap about Jameer

Well it is obviously pointless arguing with you. My point about the stats is simple, They show that the magic don't normally play worlds better than that. They played close to their average. Say you take away 3 of your turnovers. That would have netted maybe another 4-5 points. But for whatever reason, You feel the need to say Dwight only scored 9 and Vince shot poorly. Well other guys picked up the scoring load. The Cs tend to play Dwight very well and I expect our defense against Dwight to be even better with the addition of Sheed. We let dwight goto the FT line where he tends to struggle and it worked out well. The stats dont support that it would be normal to play much better than they did. While the Celtics on the other hand played well below their averages. You guys won the game, Congrats. But that doesn't change my opinion that we lost the game because of our awful play and shooting. When I actually analyze the stats, I still come to the same conclusion.

As far " I never said you told me not to post here" Well your paragraph about how you can post wherever you want and if i don't like it then pound sand imply to me you think I implied you shouldn't post here. I get it, You think I am a jerk. But I am only a jerk to people i find to be annoying. That sometimes applies to Celtic fans as well.

The funniest part is I remember you making a post about a month or two ago where a bunch of Celtic fans bashed you, I think it was in reference to you guys signing Jason Williams. I quoted your post and gave you kudos for being spot on. I have had a bunch of friendly exchanges with Magicfan4life05 on the general board. But, Please continue to stereotype me as the raging homer who is a jerk to all opposing teams fans.

But, I am done arguing with you. We could go back and forth arguing this crap for the rest of our lives. I am not changing my opinion and neither are you. We will just have to wait and see how it shakes out.

[Hilltop]

Brah, I agree that the Magic were much "closer" to their true shooting percentages than the Celtics, point taken. All I'm saying is that it doesn't matter who was "closer". None of that changes the fact that one of the higher scoring teams in the league scores 83 points, commits 20 turnovers, and shoots only 41% total. It is absolutely absurd to say that they played a great game or played their normal game because they did not. It's really as simple as that. Neither team played a great game it's not that hard to accept that.

It's perfectly fine with me if you think that the Celtics could have won that game had they played better. It's VERY reasonable to expect. It's just that it is completely biased and arrogant on your part to be using this "double standard" that favors your team only. You're basically creating a hypothetical situation in which the Celtics make missed threes and play better, but completely dismiss the possibility that the Magic could have still won as well. You see what I mean?

If you say "If the Celtics played better, they would've beaten the Magic". That's reasonable. But if you say "The Celtics win if they just made some of their 3's etc." then that is just ridiculous because there are a countless number of possibilities and what-ifs that could have taken place that STILL favored the Magic. What if the Magic made even more of their threes? What if they made half the turnovers? "What if Dwight had a better game?" and the list goes on. It is unfair to isolate one certain variable (ex. the Celts making their 3's) and use that a premise for your entire argument while totally blotting everything else out

If all things remain constant, and the Celtics make their treys then yes they win. But if all things remain constant and the Magic make more treys, shoot better, or commit less turnovers, then they win too. What if Boston makes an extra 5 FGs? What if the Magic make 8 less turnovers? See how pointless it is? There's a never ending stretch of hypothetical scenarios which makes it stupid to just choose one and talk about it as if it were doctrine.

You said that it is unlikely to expect that the Magic would have played better. Come on man, be objective here. The Celtics D up on him well, but it is NOT unreasonable to believe that Dwight could have put up a lot more than 9 points. It is NOT unreasonable to believe that Vince can shoot at a MUCH better clip. And it is NOT unreasonable to believe that the Magic as a whole can play better and commit less turnovers. In the same light, it is not unreasonable to expect that Rasheed would make more of his shots (especially the wide open ones), that Pierce and Rondo get theirs, etc. But don't be biased and say that ONLY the Celtics had a chance of playing better because that's just crazy. It's like telling me right now that if the Celtics just weren't unlucky, then there is NO CHANCE that we beat them. Both teams could have done better and you know that.

You said that we can't consider Dwight's 9 points an off game because some else made up for the scoring load. But how is that possible when your team scored around 20 points less than their average? Do you realize that there was actually a Net Loss in points? Therefore, that scoring didn't go to someone else, it just wasn't there on the statsheet at all. So yes it was an off game. Just take it for what it is.

And lastly, I apologize for stereotyping you as such. I know you're better than that, my bad. But if it's anything at all, I think you should learn how to do the same because clearly, I'm not here for a flame war either. Peace.

[MelbourneMagic]

it's pretty simple why the Celtics lost. It's because Orlando WON!!!