MIN/SAC

[Klomp]

MIN Outgoing: Ramon Sessions, Ryan Gomes, Mark Blount, CHA 1st
MIN Incoming: Kevin Martin, Andres Nocioni, Donte Greene

SAC Outgoing: Kevin Martin, Andres Nocioni, Donte Greene
SAC Incoming: Ramon Sessions, Ryan Gomes, Mark Blount, CHA 1st

[Dewey]

A good deal for the Wolves in my book ...

[slinky]

I guess this depends on how you view Nocioni...if you value him positively than it might be a good deal. I view him negatively, and mostly because of his contract.

What is the difference between Nocioni and Gomes? And tell me if you think that is worth the extra money on Nocioni's contract.

Admittedly I know nothing really about Donte Greene, but I am not sure why we are giving up a 1st round pick.

Do we have the cap breakdown of this deal? I think this is pretty much our offseason.

[Worm Guts]

Admittedly I know nothing really about Donte Greene, but I am not sure why we are giving up a 1st round pick.

.

Because Kevin Martin would be the best player in this trade by far.

[Krapinsky]

Sac wouldn't do it.

Trades are tough right now. The value of all wolves players has to be at an all time low. Sac is a Kevin Love like player away from being a really-really good team in the next few years, which is much closer than us. No need for them to blow it up anymore.

[shrink]

I was surprised to learn in another SAC trade that posters really like Donta Green. He's one of those "upside athlete, but really only did something in the summer league" type of guys that fans overvalue, just because he's THEIR team's "upside athlete, but really only did something in the summer league" guy.

Nocioni is generally seen as a negative because of his contract size/length. It'd be nice if he could be spun to a more "win-now" team in three-team trade, so we wouldn't take such a financial hit. I don't think he can bring back expirings.

Personally, I'm starting to become very attached to the longterm value in the CHA pick. I'd much prefer using the UTA pick.

Latstly, Kevin Martin is not on a good contract. He's on an OK deal for a volume scorer with good percentages that doesn't play much defense. The length of his deal is troublesome to me.

2009-10 $9,680,170
2010-11 $10,600,005
2011-12 $11,519,840
2012-13 $12,439,675

I like what klomp's done here by offering cap relief, and some good contracts and minor assets. Martin is talented offensively, but there's a lot of value being given just by taking the $17.4 mil away in Kevin Martin + Nocioni, and replacing it with lesser-talent, but more fairly priced players .. plus whatever they can get for the cap space.

[slinky]

Because Kevin Martin would be the best player in this trade by far.

Yeah, but I think that is negated by a Nocioni deal that runs through 2012.

Essentially, we are giving up a good starting PG on a good contract, a solid role player(who i also consider an expiring), an expiring and a mid 1st for a 'star', a Gomes-like player on a larger, longer deal, and a 'prospect.'

I like Martin and I think he is a great fit in our offense, his injury history is a bit of a concern. And as I said before if Donte Greene is a real prospect than that changes things. But this would be the kind of deal we can come back to after all other options have been explored and rejected. Nocioni is the stumbling block for me.

[Worm Guts]

I don't think the salary relief is enough, unless the Kings are desperate to unload salary. They're going to want talent back for Martin.

[Narf]

No thanks. Martin is a 1 way player and he's made of glass. I don't think taking him + Noc back does anything that makes us a playoff team, and giving up Charlotte's pick for the privilege to overpay their bad contracts doesn't make sense to me either.

I don't want to marginally improve our team THIS year, I want to build towards a championship in 3 years. This does not accomplish that goal.

[Devilzsidewalk]

I don't think you can do better though. Its paying a little more than is ideal, but ultimately you'd be hard pressed to think you can get better bang for your buck in free agency.

[Worm Guts]

Martin would still be in his prime in 3 years. If you don't like him, that's fine, but it's a long term move, not a quick fix.

[Narf]

Martin would still be in his prime in 3 years. If you don't like him, that's fine, but it's a long term move, not a quick fix.

But at the price of Charlotte's pick, which is actually a very good asset that will bring talent to the team, and whoever we could sign in free agency. I don't think that makes us better in 3 years, I think that makes us worse. If this is as good as we can get, then I'd rather build through the draft.

I do like Martin. I just think that pick + free agency gives us more bang for our buck as devilz put it.

[cpfsf]

Sac wouldn't do it.

Trades are tough right now. The value of all wolves players has to be at an all time low. Sac is a Kevin Love like player away from being a really-really good team in the next few years, which is much closer than us. No need for them to blow it up anymore.

Nah, they got decent bigs like Greene, Thomas, and Hawes. I think Casspi and Nocioni are role players. They need a small forward. You may be tired of my obsession with him, but Ariza would make this team a deadly playoff contender.

[Worm Guts]

But at the price of Charlotte's pick, which is actually a very good asset that will bring talent to the team, and whoever we could sign in free agency. I don't think that makes us better in 3 years, I think that makes us worse. If this is as good as we can get, then I'd rather build through the draft.

I do like Martin. I just think that pick + free agency gives us more bang for our buck as devilz put it

.

I agree with you. I think our best opportunity to acquire a franchise player is going to be with our pick and there will still be opportunities to trade for/sign a quality veteran during the offseason. I don't see any reason to mess up our ping balls unless Chris Paul was made availabe to us. It still may require the Charlotte pick if we want Martin or Gerald Wallace this summer, but at least then it won't change our lottery odds and we should have a better idea of what our cap space is worth.

[Krapinsky]

Sac wouldn't do it.

Trades are tough right now. The value of all wolves players has to be at an all time low. Sac is a Kevin Love like player away from being a really-really good team in the next few years, which is much closer than us. No need for them to blow it up anymore.

Nah, they got decent bigs like Greene, Thomas, and Hawes. I think Casspi and Nocioni are role players. They need a small forward. You may be tired of my obsession with him, but Ariza would make this team a deadly playoff contender.

I disagree a little. I think when Martin comes back you'll see them go small with Evans at the 3 once in awhile. At SF they also have Garcia and Greene on top of Noicioni and Casspi (who has been unbelievable). Thompson and Hawes are good quality contributors, but a little thin. They need a banger.

[rpa]

Essentially, we are giving up a good starting PG on a good contract, a solid role player(who i also consider an expiring), an expiring and a mid 1st for a 'star', a Gomes-like player on a larger, longer deal, and a 'prospect.'

Sessions isn't a "good" starting PG. "Good" implies that as a starter he'd be better than average which means he'd be top 15 in the league. I think he's closer to bottom 5 (starters) than he is to top 15. That said he's a good backup PG, but how much value would the Kings place on a backup PG when they'd still have Udrih (who's better but costs more) on the payroll (and Rodriguez for the rest of this year)?

From a Kings perspective this comes down to us giving up Martin, a good role player (granted his contract isn't the best but he produces), and a guy who's looked good in limited minutes this year (not that it means everything but Greene's PER this season is a very respectable 17.0) for a backup PG we don't need (because of Udrih), a mediocre SF that we don't need (because of Casspi & Garcia), salary filler, and a pick that has a good deal of protection on it until 2013. That's just horrible value for Martin. Giving up the best player in the deal (by FAR) AND the best prospect in the deal to get back a pick they may not see for 3-5 years?

I'm not arguing the Wolves would be idiots to turn this down (they'd view Noc as a negative because Minne isn't a win now team) but I don't think the Kings would even remotely consider it for even a nanosecond.

[Esohny]

Sessions is better than Beno.

[rpa]

Sessions is better than Beno.

I'd personally take Beno, but that wasn't the point about the PGs. The point was simply that the Kings already have a backup PG (Udrih) who's signed longterm for a good deal of money. Taking on Sessions doesn't make any sense there.

[Klomp]

Sessions is better than Beno.

I'd personally take Beno, but that wasn't the point about the PGs. The point was simply that the Kings already have a backup PG (Udrih) who's signed longterm for a good deal of money. Taking on Sessions doesn't make any sense there.

Thats why they're dealing for a starting PG.

[rpa]

Thats why they're dealing for a starting PG.

Sessions as a starter would be one of the 5-6 worst starting PGs in the NBA. In no way is Ramon Sessions starting at PG a good thing.

It's basically the same thing with Udrih starting. To be a good team you generally don't want to start a guy who's bottom 5 at his position (unless you have absolutely unbelievable talent around him--like the Lakers do in starter Fisher).

Also, if the Kings really thought Sessions was good enough to be a centerpiece of a Martin trade (and that's how he's being laid out here) wouldn't they have made a hard run at him?

I'm sorry but I just don't see how trading a top 7 SG for a backup caliber PG, a backup caliber SF, and a pick with lots of protection on it makes sense for this Kings team.