More cheating charges?????

[MaxwellSmart]

Last season, the League did all it could to give Clev the best record--and Home Court advantage---so, they could have an advantage in the playoffs to get to the finals----the League did NOT give any advantage to the Lakers-cause they knew they didn't have to--the Lakers would get there on their own in the West.

Unfortunately for the League--Orlando threw a Monkey Wrench in their plans.

[Hilltop]

If there is any manipulation going on, I'm in the group that believes it's light and subtle instead of the full-blown as some suggest. Those defending the league always use Detroit and San Antonio Championships to prove the NBA isn't putting exciting teams and big name Franchises to the Finals. And I agree, the NBA isn't playing "Puppeteer" in every sense of the word. I just think that they give subtle "assists" along the way in the hopes that these small advantages will somehow influence the outcome into one they had hoped for. This all comes in the form of whistles blown here and there, schedules, lopsided trades and signings, promotion, and other things that happen along the road. If after all of this, it still doesn't produce the desired result, then they leave it at that.

I believe officiating and these other little things cannot decide a game on their own. Often times the superior team will STILL get the nod no matter what is done. And that probably explains why small market teams and non-favorites have made it as far as they have through the years. With so much talent around, and so many changing variables, the League can only do so much. My guess is that they will just do whatever they can "discretely" to put their horses in favorable positions in the hopes that they take the reigns from there and win without any more blatant intervention. It's a hit and miss thing, but they get it done every now and then which is probably good enough for Stern. It at least retains some semblance of credibility and 'unpredictability'.

[Joselo16]

I agree with you Hilltop, the better team will overcome any obstacle thrown their way, but no matter how light or subtle the manipulation may be, it is a very corrupt and shady way of running a business. They are basically putting certain employees in a position to lose so others may succeed if its going on, which I have always felt like it has.

[Hilltop]

My post was just really to show that the game can be manipulated without the NBA needing to go the distance of actually fixing the results (which is impossible). The game of basketball is unbelievably difficult to officiate, let alone control completely to a desired outcome.

But yeah you're right, I wish this wasn't the case. It's a shame that unless they ever get exposed (which probably won't happen any time soon), this kind of thing will go on. There's just too much money to be made.

[sully00]

Tony,

You're missing the point. The core accusation is:

A. The league was corrupt, for the sake of boosting ratings or whatever, in a way that is hard to detect and might well not be illegal.

B. The refs enforced the league's corruption on a game by game basis.

C. In connection with B), the refs had inside knowledge that allowed them to be helpful to gamblers and/or gamble successfully on their own.

I always at least wondered about this because there was some just strangely called basketball games that seemed to decide if not manipulate the outcome but most if you really look at it, it was games not series, not game 7. I think if you reread C your realize that the original suspicion is off, your trying to blow up a balloon in a draw, and the final one is spot on.

I don't know if it is 1, 4, or 13 but most of the games in question at least famously were games were the favorites ended up needing some help. Everybody assumed suspicions about the league and the networks but why do they care if the Lakers or Spurs cover?

I am no fan of Stern but most of the suspicions that surround Stern are fantasy about draft lotteries and Jordan, stuff that he doesn't even directly benefit from. While most of the referees have already had to plead out on tax evasion for exchanging first class tickets for coach and not claiming the difference. That Lakers/Kings makes a ton more sense when you think the zebras had a tens of thousands of dollars on the line as opposed to some network/league conspiracy.

When you are looking for a suspect you have to think about what someone gets out of it. I always think this obsession with the major markets and ratings especially as it relates to the NBA is overrated. Sure the league wants its teams in the major markets to do well guess what it wants Milwaukee and San Antonio to do well too. Now the networks want the ratings because they already paid the bill but the NBA has a contract the ratings for one series or a season don't compare to the 10 year run or 5 year trend. Follow the money.

[TonyMontana]

First of all Brah, When does being a fan of a certain team have anything to do with making certain accusations.

You tell me, for the most part it was a good amount of your fan base that came on here after every loss specially ones that were close games or according to some of your fan base "Bad calls" specially against the Cav and insisted that the reffs were making bad calls so that "Stern can have a Kobe and Lebron finals" since the Lakers and the Cavs were the top two teams in the league last year.
You can sit here and say that you have never read any posts on here of YOUR fan base making those claims. Here in fact Maxwell has posted on here.

Maxwell BE HONEST have you ever posted that a game was rigged last year and that YOU YOURSELF had posted many many times that this was an inside job by Stern himself trying to fix a Kobe and Lebron fianls................ BE HONEST cause I know you have and so has this board, but I would love to see your answer.

If you recall correctly the year we beat your team for the championship, other fans were complaining that Stern wanted to bring back the old school rivalries, so by your logic since it did happen it must be true!?!

Sure it is but whats your point other than the Lakers and the Cs were the best teams in 08 and everyone knew that we would meet in the finals specailly after we got Pau........ Your arguing in one post diasgreeing with me yet on this post your agreeing with me that certain fan bases do make certain accusations. Again in this case it was a few Cs fan caliming that the Stern wanted a Cav Lakers matchup in the finals for better rating etc etc.

Heres another thing since you want to bring up 08, since we aquired Pau, again the same posters that were on here making those Cavs and Lakers accusations were the same posters that claimed that Memphis helped LA with Pau and that Stern wanted to make sure that the Lakers would become a dynasty or a power house in the W/C for ratings. Is that a lie too??

My thinking is that you can only control the game so much without making it so obvious, hence why Orlando won, but that is just my mind at work.

Now really, listen Jose Im not diasgreeing with you that there are shady calls or bad calls or points shaving in the NBA IM NOT SAYING THAT AT ALL..................
I was a heavy gambler about 10 years ago for about 6+ years. I actually had posted a thread on the Lakers board about gambeling and I shared a few of my own experiences and A LOT OF shady calls and a lot of questionable games............. A LOT, so Im not diagreeing with you. Im disagreeing with you and others for trying to say that Stern or the league has a part in all these wrong doings. Again these are all accusations and assumptions.

So, it would be ok for you Brah, if the NBA to tell the refs to help out a certain team more than another just to get better match-ups?

No I never said that. You said "The league was corrupt, for the sake of boosting ratings or whatever"
I replied it is a marketing startegy to place teams and setup schedules so that certain teams can and will bring certain ratings.

For example a perfect example "Yesterdays games" its thanksgiving and what a better day for the NBA to make money from matching up four teams that would blowup the ratings since everyone is home and everyone is glued to their T.Vs so why not setup a match up between lets say the Cs and Bulls again a rematch of E/C playoffs or Nuggets and the Lakers or Orlando and the Heat. See what I mean. Its the way the games are scheduled so that they can bring in the ratings and draw the fans for sponserships TO MAKE MONEY. Why not whats wrong with that.

Imagine, who the hell wants to watch Chicago and Utah boring game, no ratings, no money to be made. The Orlando Atlanta game, ya that was okay but better matchup bring in a lot more money.



By the way not to say I was right when I posted this a few days ago when you posted this and started this little discussion

Well they just mentioned on Sports Tonight that it was reported that Ex-Kings assistant director of scouting Jack Mai was also betting on games.

Found story
http://www.news10.net/news/local/story. ... ryid=70890

Kings owner Joe Maloof said the team fired Mai as soon as it found out through general manager Geoff Petrie that Mai had been wagering.

"I wasn't aware that he was betting. But the minute we found out he was doing something wrong we had to let him go," Maloof said. "People should know that you are not allowed to bet on NBA games. It's against the bylaws, it's against the rules."

So you were wrong since Jack Mai simply bet on NBA games and nothing more and nothing less.

He did break the bylaws of the NBA R&G but not to the level that you were accusing him of doing.

[captain green]

Well my take is this I'd say 12% of of the entire league (refs,gm,owner,players,etc...)
Are guilty of gambling or some type of corruption.
I'd also like to state about the same % of the entire government(all branches) are too.
In fact the whole damn world at the same % amount is corrupt.
Do I think a wholesale is going on in the NBA no, would I doubt if even more names are coming out of this that's a no too. One guys gets caught more names follow that's a fact of life. Albeit these douche bags that got caught are trying to leverage themselves for more money for fake or un-fake sources that I don't give two hoots about. There are refs in this league that need to be looked at with no regards to gambling just performance.
And not being able to comment or getting fines for dis agreeing with there calls is a criminal offense as far as I'm concerned freedom of speech means just what it mean's, I of course also agree with national broadcast rights(FCC) for parental guidlines of cable networks cursing and damaging or racists statement fines for sure.
THAT BEING SAID YOU SHOULD HAVE A RIGHT TO NOT BE FINED TO SAY WHAT YOU THINK WHEN ASKED