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Two questions I would like to hear peoples opinions on...

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Re: Two questions I would like to hear peoples opinions on... 

Post#21 » by ryaningf » Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:27 am

sully00 wrote:Do you watch this team play games?

I ask because right now what we do is have Rondo go stand in the corner and have either Pierce or Ray initiate the offense and play 4 on 5. Is that good basketball to you?


Have you read my posts before? You know, the ones where I rail on Doc for taking the ball out of Rondo's hands, which needlessly plays into the other team's scheme of rendering Rondo a jump shooter?

sully00 wrote:If we are up 5 or more we can live with it for the advantage of having Rondo's defense and the ability to get in the open court.

But you either don't watch or don't understand the game if you think what is going on with Rondo right now is cool and just non traditional, the kid is shooting 33% from the FT line that is half of his already crappy FT shooting. You can't have your primary ball handler not just be bad but flat out afraid to go to the line. It has got to change.


Didn't say it was cool. My point about him being non-traditional and unconventional was simple--people make a bigger deal out his supposed weaknesses because traditionally his struggles are areas of the game that most PGs don't struggle with...making those struggles *seem* worse than they actually are. In reality they're not so bad, all things considered (you gotta take the good with the bad, and factor in the good when weighing the bad, or you're making pointless evaluations).

At this point in time, complaining about Rondo's free throw shooting is nothing but an over-reaction. I mean, has he even attempted 30 FTs yet? It's way TOO EARLY and the sample size is way TOO SMALL to start blowing your wad over hypothetical disadvantages that haven't even shown themselves to result in Ls. When was the last time Rondo missed FTs down the stretch? Just asking. You'd think it had happened alot based off the big stink you're making over it.

If you ask me, the new routine and the 'cocking' action that he's inserted into that routine (where he squares his hips and locks his elbow right before the release) seem to have made some good results. I think he's trending back towards respectability at the line. I chalk up the bad start at the line (over a measly 26 FTs) as nothing but the normal growing pains associated with any major form re-adjustment. Changing rotations at this point, all because he's had a tough start at the line, would be the definition, the ultimate text book case of panic in the face of adversity. Luckily, Doc knows better.

And, as I said before, he's not even getting late game FTs for the most part. It's funny, people like you like to complain about him not only sucking at the FT line, but also for sucking at getting to the FT line. What you don't realize is that sucking at GETTING to the line actually minimizes the sucking he does AT the FT line. But that's a digression; the point remains the same. Much ado about nothing.

BTW, the tired trope of 'you must not watch the games or understand basketball' is pretty lame, Sully. I think you're better than that. Seriously. We all watch the games.
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Re: Two questions I would like to hear peoples opinions on... 

Post#22 » by sully00 » Sat Nov 28, 2009 5:14 am

First off not everyone on this board watches the games, it isn't a crack they are not able to watch the games they have to get their info other ways. If you really think it doesn't matter that the team's pg can't touch the ball late in games the screw it I really don't care what you think.

It is not much "ado about nothing" the fact that he is not attempting FT's is not good, it is because he is not touching the ball in the halfcourt in the last 5 mins. Pierce or Ray is the de facto pg and that sucks against good teams were are going to get exposed.

Since the ATL game he is 1-6 in the 4th quarter shooting FT's. It hurt in the ATL game the 1-4 against the Knicks caused the OT. He didn't play against ORL. He isn't just making half as many he is taking half as many as he did last year.

Having a big who can't make half his throws sucks and a championship team wouldn't be able to play him in the 4th, we are talking about this teams pg with no back up.

It has to change, he has to be able to take it to the bucket and get to the line.
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Re: Two questions I would like to hear peoples opinions on... 

Post#23 » by ryaningf » Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:34 pm

sully00 wrote:First off not everyone on this board watches the games, it isn't a crack they are not able to watch the games they have to get their info other ways. If you really think it doesn't matter that the team's pg can't touch the ball late in games the screw it I really don't care what you think.


You're not listening, Sully. I'm saying he *can* touch the ball late in the game. I'm not filled with fear over what may or may not happen if he has to go to the line late in the game. If it was up to me, we'd run the ball through Rondo all game long. You keep saying he can't touch the ball, but that statement doesn't have any touch in reality. He can, if we want him to (and it won't hurt us). The reason we often isolate Paul down the stretch is that we want him taking the last shot, or making the last pass if necessary. It's not because Rondo can't shoot free throws. I mean, Rondo had the ball in his hands at the end of regulation against the Knicks.

sully00 wrote:It is not much "ado about nothing" the fact that he is not attempting FT's is not good, it is because he is not touching the ball in the halfcourt in the last 5 mins. Pierce or Ray is the de facto pg and that sucks against good teams were are going to get exposed.


He is touching the ball.

And the "Pierce or Ray as defacto PG sucks against good teams where we are going to get exposed" must have been lifted verbatim from one of my posts. I completely agree with that. But I don't agree with *why* that's occurring--it's not because Rondo hasn't shot his first 26 free throws well...it's because Doc takes the ball out of his hands to put them in Paul's. That's Paul's role--closer. Where we get exposed is when we take the ball out of Rondo's hands for entire quarters or halves, something we still do from time to time.

sully00 wrote:Since the ATL game he is 1-6 in the 4th quarter shooting FT's. It hurt in the ATL game the 1-4 against the Knicks caused the OT. He didn't play against ORL. He isn't just making half as many he is taking half as many as he did last year.


You're hanging the ATL loss and the Knick OT on Rondo so as to conveniently augment your argument. All I asked is whether Rondo has missed late game FTs that led to a loss. He hasn't. We lost that ATL game by double digits. Rondo's FTs hurt, but they didn't lose the game. And we WON the Knicks game.

Rondo's 6 for his last 10 ever since he implemented the 'cocking action' into his routine. He's improving. He has no trouble handling the ball down the stretch and getting the ball to his playmakers. He has no trouble taking last second shots and making them. You're overblowing a measly 26 FTA into some kind of major handicap.

As for getting to the line, I tend to think it's a matter of playing with the Big 3 and, since they get a ton of calls, the refs are less likely to give him the benefit of the doubt. He gets hammered regularly without any whistle, either at the rim or on the perimeter.

sully00 wrote:Having a big who can't make half his throws sucks and a championship team wouldn't be able to play him in the 4th, we are talking about this teams pg with no back up.

It has to change, he has to be able to take it to the bucket and get to the line.


For the last time, I don't see it as a handicap, nor do I see any evidence of Doc not playing Rondo because he's afraid he *might* miss a free throw that could cost a game. The times Rondo hasn't played down the stretch have been for other, yet equally indefensible, reasons, like Eddie 'had it going' (on a night when he was 1-7).

Where's the evidence showing that we *can't* play Rondo down the stretch, especially when we have, for the most part, been able to play him during the last 2 playoff runs? You're taking the limited sample set of 26 free throws and extrapolating some kind of major handicap that DOES NOT EXIST. It's imagined and hypothetical at this point. Give him some time to continue improving and you'll see that it's a complete over-reaction.
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Re: Two questions I would like to hear peoples opinions on... 

Post#24 » by captain green » Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:42 pm

ryaningf wrote:Where's the evidence showing that we *can't* play Rondo down the stretch, especially when we have, for the most part, been able to play him during the last 2 playoff runs? You're taking the limited sample set of 26 free throws and extrapolating some kind of major handicap that DOES NOT EXIST. It's imagined and hypothetical at this point. Give him some time to continue improving and you'll see that it's a complete over-reaction.


There is none, some on this board are just well in denial. Until Rondo does everything perfect i'd say 64% of this board is turn offed by Rondo right now and the one thing they say is his free throw% well when it goes up they will come around or be dead.
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not brain surgery but Its like talking to a Republican facts and truth suddenly disappear into agenda an negative sentiment.
Posters like me try to find the good in all and I like sully and ex but trying to get them to agree on the Rondo stuff isn't happening. Like the captain getting on All NBA team when hes not even fourth in the SF team. Over stating are favorites is hard to not do its not a knock on anybody just certain things ain't happening they plain don't see him that high. :giveup:
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Re: Two questions I would like to hear peoples opinions on... 

Post#25 » by exculpatory » Sat Nov 28, 2009 5:30 pm

Cap Green,

I have not said very much about the Rondo thing except that I LOVE his game when he brings his speed, passing, creativity, and amazing rebounding for his size CONSISTENTLY, but that he needs a consistent short J and the ability to make at least 3/4 of his FTs to be truly elite. Furthermore, his lack of a consistent J exposes us to 4 on 5 in the half court (think PLAYOFF Bball), and his current FT % is an abomination.

If you consider Kobe and DWade as 2s, and Dirk as a 4, only the King and Melo are playing at Paul's current All Pro level right now at the 3. Wince, Granger and JJ are All Stars, but they are playing behind the Truth right now. And that is NOT hyperbole. That is the TRUTH!
SamIam 2010: Truth's ability to play so incredibly efficiently is so UNDERAPPRECIATED. Bballcool 2012: Amazing how great Pierce has been for so long. Continues to defy age! KG 2013: P is original Celtic. Wherever he goes, we go. This is The Truth's house.
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Re: Two questions I would like to hear peoples opinions on... 

Post#26 » by GWVan » Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:41 pm

Ed Pinkney wrote:Firstly, if we continue to struggle over the next 20 to 30 games, would the coaching staff make changes to the starting lineup?


I'd just like to point out that the "struggling" team is 12-4 and in a 3-way tie for the best team in the east.

Should they continue to struggle for the rest of the season at this pace around 50 more victories will be added, putting us at 62 wins - same as last year.

That's assuming that we the knee of our best player doesn't get any better.

I think it's probably ok, that we might be taking it a bit easier on defense than in the past. Let's continue to struggle at this pace and then turn it up in late Feb/ early Mar.

I can't see how anyone who followed this team for 2 decades and watched it circle the bowl year after year before being flushed in the spring can be disappointed with this start.
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Re: Two questions I would like to hear peoples opinions on... 

Post#27 » by exculpatory » Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:34 pm

Our 1A best player is playing first team All Pro. Our 1B best player hopefully will gradually get back to 80%, and all will be well. :0).

We all hope I think (except for our home grown pathologically negative 95% wrong troll) that the swaggering Ubuntu team D we saw last night in the third quarter is a positive sign for the future!!!

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