Bagnani's Contract an Albatross?

[Schad]

Why? Mainly Bosh's $18-21 million a year for the next 5+ years at the PF position, as opposed to Bargs' $10 million. The savings are significant; enough, in my mind, to spring for a true post player in that type of scenario, and even have enough left over for a little extra at the guard/wing position.

But the salary cap doesn't work that way. If we let Bosh go, we won't have enough room under the cap to do something significant. Not next year, unlikely in 2011 unless we avoid contracts over one year and don't extend either of Amir/Belinelli, and it's even unlikely that we'll have significant cap space in 2012. If we let Bosh go, it means committing to build around Jose, Bargs, Hedo, and DeRozan for the next three years, with an MLE signing or mid-lotto draft pick or two along the way.

[McFurious1]

Building a team around Bargnani is probably the worst thing that can happen for fans and management.

And building a team around Bosh hasn't?

In the 7 years Bosh has been on this franchise. And for the 5 he's been our franchise player, Bosh has surrounded by mediocre talent. We've had no defenders, bruisers or perennial All-Stars to play with Bosh. Name me one young quality talent that Bosh has played with that has the ability to show up on both sides of the floor.

It's the same old excuse regarding the Bosh era he's been surrounded by mediorce talent... maybe it's Bosh who has been mediorce. This team has the talent the problem is the defense and it's on all positions Bosh's included. When Perkins is schooling your franchise player with hook shots all day long you have a problem.

[KrazyP]

Bargnani can do everything Rashard Lewis can do. If Lewis was making $10mill, people would consider him a huge bargain.

Rashard Lewis - 08/09 (using last year stats because Rashard had been injured this year)

36.2 mpg
17.7 pts
5.7 reb
43.9 fg%
39.7 3pt%
PER - 16.8

Andrea Bargnani - 09/10

32.8 mpg
16.8 pts
6.4 reb
48.4 fg%
42.0 3pt%
PER - 17.1

[Time for Change]

I don't think albatross is the correct word. However BC destroyed Andrea's trade value with that contract. If he hadn't yet been signed to an extension, Bargs would be a very valuable trade asset. I think a lot of GMs would like to have him, and re-sign him under their terms, most likely as a high-offense-sixth-man-type. Instead he's being paid like an established 2nd option, and has a trade kicker to boot, which ruins his trade value.

BC might have had the worst off-season in Raptors history. He had four big assets: Bosh, Bargnani, the cap space from JO/Marion, and the 9th pick. He did nothing with Bosh. He destroyed Bargnani's value with an unfavourable 5-year extension, he used the cap space to cripple the franchise for 5 years with an aging, declining Turkoglu. The 9th pick he used on Derozan, not necessarily a terrible move yet, but it's already obvious Jennings and Lawson are better players, and they were projected as better by many pre-draft.

[Tom Baker]

Bargnani is the worst possible fit for this team.

-He is not a true 'C', his natural position is PF and like T. Baker said he needs a defensive bruiser playing along side him

-Calderon cannot stay in front of his man, he's constantly being beat. Bargnani is a horrible help defender and he doesn't have that intimidation factor to alter shots consistently and is often too late to help.

-Not a good fit along side Bosh offensively and defensively. Not enough touches for him for us to see what he can really do.

If Bosh leaves, I have no real problem shipping Calderon away and building around Bargs. If we trade Bargs and Calderon, and Bosh leaves, this team is **** for a long, long time. I, for one, would like to take a stab at putting someone like Samuel Dalembert (overpaid, but only 2 years left on his deal, and being shopped - so we could try it out without handcuffing ourselves) beside Bargnani and letting Jack start.

Dalembert
Bargnani
Hedo
Belinelli
Jack

Jose/Amir/Reggie/Demar off the bench.

I'm really sick of the current core. I like Bargnani's contract and potential upside if the coaches would make a concerted effort to make him our primary scorer.

Wait. Did you just trade Bosh straight up for Dalembert in your scenario? Because I don't see any other pieces added.

[Tom Baker]

Albatross?!?! lol do you even know what an Albatross is?

Yeah, it's like a great big, honkin' seagull.

[princeofpalace]

I wouldn't say Bargs is an albatross at this point, but there is certainly potential for him to become one. His extension was certainly premature, I doubt anyone on the open market would pay that much.

Charlie V got a 5/35 contract and thats along the lines of what Bargs should have received as well

[Schad]

Albatross?!?! lol do you even know what an Albatross is?

Yeah, it's like a great big, honkin' seagull.

And apparently the sort of creature that comes to mind when your unconscious is having a rollicking good opium voyage.

[Tom Baker]

Albatross?!?! lol do you even know what an Albatross is?

Yeah, it's like a great big, honkin' seagull.

And apparently the sort of creature that comes to mind when your unconscious is having a rollicking good opium voyage.

What's your conscious mind doing while all this is going on?

[Indeed]

I think Boozer is a better fit with Bargnani.
They play Okur on the perimeter, and a two man game between Boozer and D. Williams.

Bosh can play better than Boozer, if he is tough enough on the defensive end.
But the problem would be PG. Deron is much much better than Jose on both side.

If Bargnani works hard to improve his team defense, while some how our PG improved dramatically, then we would be better than the Jazz.

[Schad]

What's your conscious mind doing while all this is going on?

Heh, not much...that's opium for you.

[RiceANDPeas]

It's ridiculous just how many changes this team needs to be very good...and this is after we have already made so many changes! We draft Bargs when we already have a proven PF, now we want a true centre to compliment either Bosh/Bargs because those two aren't working out together. We trade away first round picks that could have been used to address our problems (Lopez?).
We keep neglecting our need for an athletic swingman and instead bring in aging Turkoglu who we're stuck with now (wouldn't Marion have been cheaper? He also did mention he wouldn't have minded resigning here). We give a big contract to the worst defensive PG in the league, no defensive presence/intimidaton, we give the head coaching to a guy with no previous NBA head coaching experience. It's one bad move after another.

In BC I trust, till I die.

[Hoopstarr]

It's not an albatross but that doesn't make it any less dumber to sign a guy before he's even an RFA. Did they actually think there was a chance they'd lose him next year? With the falling cap, he would've cost even less next year and they'd have the right to match any offer. Not that teams would be lining up to pay him in the first place.

I'm pretty sure the worry was that Bargs would have a coming out party this year and with all the 2010 money being saved that someone one would pay him more than we could afford.

I'm saying that shouldn't have been a worry considering the cap is likely to go down. And at 24, he wasn't likely to improve much more than his Jan-April production last year. Then there's the matter of whether Bosh and AB are compatible in the first place, but that's a whole different issue.

[FTW]

Why? Mainly Bosh's $18-21 million a year for the next 5+ years at the PF position, as opposed to Bargs' $10 million. The savings are significant; enough, in my mind, to spring for a true post player in that type of scenario, and even have enough left over for a little extra at the guard/wing position.

But the salary cap doesn't work that way. If we let Bosh go, we won't have enough room under the cap to do something significant. Not next year, unlikely in 2011 unless we avoid contracts over one year and don't extend either of Amir/Belinelli, and it's even unlikely that we'll have significant cap space in 2012. If we let Bosh go, it means committing to build around Jose, Bargs, Hedo, and DeRozan for the next three years, with an MLE signing or mid-lotto draft pick or two along the way.

I had meant trading Bosh, not just "letting him go" at the end of the year.

Is there also a difference in that case?

Thanks

[Tom Baker]

What's your conscious mind doing while all this is going on?

Heh, not much...that's opium for you.

Nice.

I just wanted to see what you'd answer.

[yogimvp]

we need montross!

[Hobo Gonzolez]

It's not an albatross but that doesn't make it any less dumber to sign a guy before he's even an RFA. Did they actually think there was a chance they'd lose him next year? With the falling cap, he would've cost even less next year and they'd have the right to match any offer. Not that teams would be lining up to pay him in the first place.

There are a crapload of teams under the cap next year.

[Time for Change]

There are a crapload of teams under the cap next year.

And none of them want to pay Bargs $50 million.

[MacDaddy]

I know a lot of people around the Raptors circle were happy when Bargnani accepted a 5yr - 50 million deal, seeing it as a "bargain deal" in anticipation of his emerging star power.

But does anyone else around the league actually consider this a good deal? I remember when Bargnani signed the agreement many people outside of the Raptors organization were questioning this kind of financial commitment for a player that despite an offensive touch still shows many glaring deficiencies.

If it ever gets to the stage where BC tries to trade Bargs, do you think other teams will be hesitant to to take on a 50 million contract? As a fan of exploring trade options for Bargs, I'm a little worried about this contract hindering the amount of potential suitors.

As long as there's a team out there that wants a 7 foot shooting guard, we could move him.

[Hobo Gonzolez]

There are a crapload of teams under the cap next year.

And none of them want to pay Bargs $50 million.

If a team like the knicks swing and miss on the big name free agents, they could have signed bargs for a lot because they need to make a big move this offseason.
Anyway, I think we had the right idea to try to resign him, just we should have lowballed him a bit, we had no real reason to give him the maximum he would have likely gotten next year.