It's time for Obie to go...

writerman · Post #1 » by **writerman** » Wed Dec 2, 2009 9:09 pm

I'm usually very reluctant to call for the coach's head, but this is just so stupid I think it's time.

http://www.indystar.com/article/2009120 ... -the-bench

Hibbert is the center this team needs, and he isn't going to learn squat this way. I'm one of the biggest Jeff Foster fans here, but he's the one who should be the backup. He's the past--Hibbert has shown enough to start, and is our future at the center position.

Stupid, Obie--stupid--especially in kight of the contradiction that he keeps starting Rush when Jones is performing much better. I have nothing against Rush, and think he's part of the core. But the wing is much easier to learn and adjust to, while centers need to get consistent minutes to learn to play the NBA game effectively.

8305 · Post #2 » by **8305** » Wed Dec 2, 2009 10:50 pm

Until recently (the Golden State game)I've been an advocate of stay the course. Anyone living in Indianapolis has to notice the remarkable success of the Colts. Organizational stability is a mainstay there and it has always seemed logical the Pacers should immulate that approach. With that in mind you stand behind your coach come hell or high water.

But I'm in agreement what we are seeing seems just too stupid or troubling.

Hibbert not starting in Golden State just seemed stupid. We know he has to play to get better and he has to get better for us to be a contender. His improvement from last year has been remarkable and the last time we played GS he was a monster. Its the perfect match up for him (a center with no offensive game). He's struggled the last couple of games, but why would you waste an opportunity push the confidence level back up. If he gets the ball in good position they had no answer for him. The Sacremento game presents the same opportunity.

The troubling thing. Golden State is a bad basketball team. The formula for beating them is pretty simple. Be patient on offense move the ball and you will get easy shots. Put a little effort in at the defensive end and you just about can't help but beat these guys. The fact that we did neither makes me wonder if O'Brien doesn't get it or he isn't capable of getting his team to do it. The effort observed in ugly losses against Golden State, Toronto and Dallas make me wonder if he is being tuned out. If he is he's toast and the sooner Larry deals with it the better.

DougInOz · Post #3 » by **DougInOz** » Wed Dec 2, 2009 11:06 pm

8305 wrote:He's struggled the last couple of games, but why would you waste an opportunity push the confidence level back up.

This.
I'm not saying Obie should go or not, but this stuck out to me once I realised Hibbie wasn't starting.

basketballwacko2 · Post #4 » by **basketballwacko2** » Thu Dec 3, 2009 12:56 am

I disagree with firing O'Brien. Our Pacers problems are not his fault he can only work with what he has. Get rid of TJ Ford.

Now if we did drop OB I want Byron Scott.

Post #5 » by **Miller4ever** » Thu Dec 3, 2009 1:13 am

His handling of Hibbert is bad for his development, but I can see the decision making sense in a weird way. I think everything will work itself out once the guys who just came back are back in full swing and the wheels are greased. We can't blame the conductor when the train sucks.

plustin · Post #6 » by **plustin** » Thu Dec 3, 2009 5:46 am

I could be off, but i think O'brien's career regular season record is now 260-260. How many seasons of mediocrity do you get before people realize that you are not the answer. O'brien knows this, which is why he is keeping away from Hibbert. Hibbert is this teams future and O'brien only cares about scratching out a few extra wins to hang on to his job. He is coaching scared and that is always dangerous.

Post #7 » by **PR07** » Thu Dec 3, 2009 6:30 am

I don't think many coaches would consistently win with this current roster. I mean our second best player so far, Dahntay Jones, is a guy that was playing for the Fort Wayne Mad Ants just two years ago. You look at the roster, and how many of our starters would actually be starters on a great team? Granger? Maybe Dahntay Jones if you wanted a defensive 5th starter a la Bowen. I know TJ Ford, Murphy, and Hibbert wouldn't.

Is O'Brien the coach to take us to the next level? Probably not. If I could, would I love to see us hire Byron Scott? Yes. However, I think our problems go a lot further than the head coach.

plustin · Post #8 » by **plustin** » Thu Dec 3, 2009 2:30 pm

PR07 wrote:I don't think many coaches would consistently win with this current roster. I mean our second best player so far, Dahntay Jones, is a guy that was playing for the Fort Wayne Mad Ants just two years ago. You look at the roster, and how many of our starters would actually be starters on a great team? Granger? Maybe Dahntay Jones if you wanted a defensive 5th starter a la Bowen. I know TJ Ford, Murphy, and Hibbert wouldn't.

Is O'Brien the coach to take us to the next level? Probably not. If I could, would I love to see us hire Byron Scott? Yes. However, I think our problems go a lot further than the head coach.

I agree that this team is not that talented, but look at the Kings who just beat us. They lost Kevin martin and are still at .500. What about the Bucks who have played without Bogut and Redd for much of the season and they are over .500.

It's the job of the coach to get the most out of his players, and O'brien is not doing that. at this rate, this will be his 3rd season here and his 3rd straight losing season. As a fan, I don't think that is acceptable.

Dunthreevy · Post #9 » by **Dunthreevy** » Thu Dec 3, 2009 4:44 pm

plustin wrote:
PR07 wrote:I don't think many coaches would consistently win with this current roster. I mean our second best player so far, Dahntay Jones, is a guy that was playing for the Fort Wayne Mad Ants just two years ago. You look at the roster, and how many of our starters would actually be starters on a great team? Granger? Maybe Dahntay Jones if you wanted a defensive 5th starter a la Bowen. I know TJ Ford, Murphy, and Hibbert wouldn't.

Is O'Brien the coach to take us to the next level? Probably not. If I could, would I love to see us hire Byron Scott? Yes. However, I think our problems go a lot further than the head coach.

I agree that this team is not that talented, but look at the Kings who just beat us. They lost Kevin martin and are still at .500. What about the Bucks who have played without Bogut and Redd for much of the season and they are over .500.

It's the job of the coach to get the most out of his players, and O'brien is not doing that. at this rate, this will be his 3rd season here and his 3rd straight losing season. As a fan, I don't think that is acceptable.

Completely agree.

Post #10 » by **Miller4ever** » Thu Dec 3, 2009 5:14 pm

Did you guys honestly expect better than .500 this season? Seriously?

Of we get over .450 Obie is doing a great job with what he's got. If we get over .400 Obie's doing his job. If we end up with less than 30 wins then Obie needs to go, but I don't see that happening.

Remember that right now we're trying to find time for everyone and messing with rotations to get the best performance out of everyone. There's a few players that you don't know how much they're able to give on any given night, and that's Tyler, Murphy, Granger, Dunleavy, Ford, Rush, and Hibbert. This is either because of foul trouble or injury or career inconsistency. It's a high-wire act, and it's a lot more difficult than some of you think. Here's the biggest question: who out there can you actually say is DEFINITELY better than O'Brien at this point?

basketballwacko2 · Post #11 » by **basketballwacko2** » Thu Dec 3, 2009 8:03 pm

We need a better PG period!

Orlock78 · Post #12 » by **Orlock78** » Thu Dec 3, 2009 8:50 pm

It seems like a lot of people are moaning about our win loss record. To me that is very nearly irrelevant. We all knew what our record was likely to be this year, we all understand this is not a championship basketball team. so, keeping that in mind, all I want is for the coach to put the best possible team on the floor and show some balls to back them up, and try to develop the players who are expected to be the future of this franchise. If hes consistent, and I see the young guys getting the experience they need, I can handle the losses, I can't handle him being an idiot. The fact that Obie can't see what every casual observer of the Pacers can see from watching 10 minutes of play is infuriating. Let’s go over the obvious....

1. First and foremost... HIBBERT is our best center, the future at the position, and a good player!
2. Rush is NOT playing well... Jones IS playing well... DUH.....
3. Murphy While a good offensive player CAN NOT PLAY DEFENSE. I think it’s obvious we play our best with a good defensive unit on the floor, he needs to find a better way of implementing Murphy.
4. If we were winning and we start playing poorly. CALL a timeout, make a substitution... DO SOMETHING.

These are just a few of the really obvious stuff, not to mention the fact that I don't believe for one second in his commitment to defense for this team.

and one last thing as long as I'm ranting... For god sake teach somebody how to defend the 3pt shot!

ok... I'm done now.

plustin · Post #13 » by **plustin** » Thu Dec 3, 2009 8:50 pm

Miller4ever wrote: Did you guys honestly expect better than .500 this season? Seriously?

Of we get over .450 Obie is doing a great job with what he's got. If we get over .400 Obie's doing his job. If we end up with less than 30 wins then Obie needs to go, but I don't see that happening.

He has had a losing record for 3 straight years.

If the pacers don't have the horses to win now as you suggest, then how do you defend playing Foster over Hibbert? If O'brien isn't expected to win, shouldn't he be expected to develop the youngsters? Hibbert doesn't get minutes, Rush is imploding.

Miller4ever wrote:
Here's the biggest question: who out there can you actually say is DEFINITELY better than O'Brien at this point?

I don't believe in keeping a coach around simply because you can't name someone better. There are plenty of good assistants out there waiting for a chance. When a coach is around for years and proves to be nothing more than average, you don't just stick with him, you make a change and bring in someone like Kiki Vandewghe who the Nets hired.

Since Kiki was already hired, how about Patrick Ewing? Ewing is intelligent has been an assistant, was a great player and oh by the way, could mentor Hibbert alot more efficiently than O'Brien.

Will it work out, maybe, maybe not. But i already know that O'brien isn't the answer.

Orlock78 · Post #14 » by **Orlock78** » Thu Dec 3, 2009 8:59 pm

I vote for Byron Scott, I think he'd be Ideal. I think he did a hell of a job with the hornets. I'm not even convinced he deserved to be fired from there. I think we'd be lucky to have him here. And you can not tell me with a straight face that you think Obie is a better overall coach than he is.

writerman · Post #15 » by **writerman** » Thu Dec 3, 2009 10:46 pm

This is ironic, as he was the player I've hated the most of any player ever in the NBA...but how about Bill Laimbeer if he's available? He's got head coaching experience, albeit with the ladies...I think he's an assistant with the T-Wolves now, but I think he'd jump at the chance to run the show with a team like ours with some decent young prospects he could teach and coach. I hate the sonovabitch, but he could teach our young bigs a lot, and he wouldn't put up with anything less than 110% effort from anyone. He was maybe the dirtiest player ever in the NBA, but he had a Jeff Foster work ethic and focus on the game, and was the poster boy for a guy with mediocre talent that made himself a force--maybe he could teach Hibbert, Hansborough, McBob, and Solo how to be creatively aggressive. This team definitely needs more toughness, for one thing.

Failing him, Mark Jackson or even Reggie if either were interested.

Post #16 » by **Miller4ever** » Thu Dec 3, 2009 11:00 pm

Reggie won't be interested for a while.

Post #17 » by **PR07** » Fri Dec 4, 2009 3:23 am

Would Phil Jackson have a winning record with this team the past three seasons? No. This team just isn't that talented. There's a lot of "Okay, he's alright," players, but the starting lineup has one or two players that probably start for a really good team. The rest of the team is composed of backup players. We have a lot of these players, just not enough good starters. Hopefully, Hibbert and Rush can become those guys in time. However, O'Brien shouldn't just spoon-feed them minutes when they aren't playing well, they have to earn them.

Boneman2 · Post #18 » by **Boneman2** » Fri Dec 4, 2009 7:04 am

Regardless, Foster has always been a backup. Even in his prime he was a very good b/u but never ever starter material. Now that he has lost a step I'm supposed to believe he is a better option than Roy at this point in their respective careers. Quit trippin'. To be honest Solo is getting dicked around too.

I can't blame Obie though, imagine having decipher the situation with so many prominent players returning at once. Not too mention it will take a few games for this team to develop some chemistry. We look bad right now, but if everyone stays healthy we'll start gellin.

Post #19 » by **Miller4ever** » Fri Dec 4, 2009 7:54 am

With Foster coming back healthy he's had two great games in a row. Murphy's not doing so well. I want to start Hibbert alongside Foster. I think we have enough offense with Roy, Granger, and Dahntay in the starting lineup to do that. Murphy and Dunleavy (for the time being) should both come off the bench and provide punch to our second line with Watson managing.

godlovesthepacers · Post #20 » by **godlovesthepacers** » Fri Dec 4, 2009 12:51 pm

Definitely time for J. O'B, to find a new JOB. I've been to a few home games this year, and they're painful to watch. . .even when they win. He doesn't call very many set plays & the team looks undisciplined on the court.

I don't get tinkering w/ the starting center position to match the opponent's line-up each game. You've got a 7'2 post player who blocks shots, can score in good position & even rebounds. . .make opponents match up w/ you! Can you imagine the old Pacers teams alternating Rik Smits & Lasalle Thompson in the rotation because Lasalle may have been a little quicker. . .LOL

Here's to hoping Byron Scott is available & offered the job when O'Brien is dismissed.