Does Woody not realize?

[azuresou1]

Did you happen to miss the Heat winning the championship with Wade? Do you really want to try and claim that team wasn't iso dominant? Did you happen to watch the finals that year?

With the handchecking rules Iso's are in my opinion the best way to attack a defense. Having a post threat is great to exploit teams with weak frontlines but if you don't have a post threat then hell yes I would be inititating the offense by letting my strongest offensive players beat someone 1 on 1 then exploiting the defense after the defense is unsettled.

Heat ran a lot of iso, but they still had Haslem, 'Toine, and this guy called Shaq. And oh, the refs kind of helped too. Regardless, you can't seriously be comparing Joe Johnson with Dwyane Wade. That's like me comparing Smoove to LeBron.

Iso's work if you can space the floor and you have an elite wing. We can't space well, and Joe is far from elite. Look at how well iso-guard play worked out for Michael Redd and the Bucks, or Kevin Martin and the Kings. Those are loser teams, just like the Hawks were until Smoove started playing bigger and we picked up Al.

Jordan is the ONLY wing player to ever succeed without an elite big, and he had Scottie Pippen who was basically Lamar Odom but 75% better. The only other team to win without an elite big was Detroit, and they did it through great ball movement and having everyone other than Ben Wallace touch the ball. And hell, even HE probably got more touches than Al gets right now.

Actually, Ben Wallace averaged 8.3 FGA against the Spurs that series. In contrast, Al is averaging 9.5 FGA per game. Do you seriously believe Al only merits 1.2 more shot attempts a game than Ben ****ing Wallace, whose offensive game is limited to being directly next to the basket?

[azuresou1]

Basically, if for us to have even a shot at a championship, we either need Joe to be Michael Jordan and Smoove to be a Pippen/Rodman amalgamation OR we can move the ball around. Which do you think is more likely to happen or easier to achieve??

[killbuckner]

I don't thinkt his roster has ANY shot at a championship no matter what offense they run. If you want to be a championship contender then this team needs to be willing to pay the luxury tax and the team needs to start taking big chances in trades. (Bosh, Amare, etc) Or else break it up and go back into the lottery for a few years and try and get more talent. I honestly don't believe that the current goal of the team is a championship. The ASG is content to ahve a consistently winning team thats entertaining to watch and hopefully can make some noise in the playoffs if everything falls right. But while everyone talks about a championship being the goal I really don't see that at all.

I firmly believe that if Joe Johnson is the team's best player then your team has no shot at a championship. And yes the team would be far better with a post threat like Shaq, Howard, or Gasol on the roster. But that doesn't at all mean that the offense would be better off by dumping the ball into poor post players like Horford and Smith.

And considering how many more offensive rebounds Ben Wallace picks up compared to Horford I think that it very well could be true that was a more effective halfcourt player on offense than Horford is.

[azuresou1]

Joe Johnson is better than anyone on that Detroit roster. I hope we all accept that. That team had no real post threat either; Sheed had the ability and talent, but rarely played down low. Last night was pretty much exactly how I would want Joe to play, with the exception of maybe 2 possessions in the 3rd, but I guess by that point Josh could have begun taking 3pt practice, and I wouldn't have really minded. Now granted, we were facing Toronto and it's god awful defense (historically worst), but I think that it showed that we're much better with Joe as a facilitator and distributor and a potential threat than as an actual weapon.

As for Horford, he carved up Bosh last night, mostly in the post, 1-on-1. He posted 24/7 on 10-12 shooting - in 23 minutes. Bosh is no Duncan defensively, but he's also better than a lot of the stiffs in the league. He is not by any means a poor post player. What does he need to do to prove to you otherwise? Drop 45 on 70% shooting against Dwight?

I think even the ASG realized that they would make far more money if we are a big name team that has a shot at the crown than if we (read: Josh) just produce a highlight on ESPN every few days. In fact, winning a championship is probably one of the few ways that people will begin to start watching us for us, instead of coming to watch us play Kobe or Wade or LeBron like they did a few years ago. They will spend the money if they think we have a very real shot at the championship, even just purely from a financial standpoint. Not, like, Isiah-Knicks payroll caliber, but enough.

[LL Cool Scott]

This is baffling. I don't particularly like Joe Johnson or Mike Woodson, but come on. We're DOMINANT offensively so far this year. We're overachieving to a startling degree so far.

[wizardg]

Interesting thread. Azure and Kill you both make good points.

I think the Hawks are a young team finding their way. Obviously they are not a great half court offensive team. They have as new peice in Crawford, a diminshing piece in Bibby, an underachieving Marvin, an improved Josh, and improving Horford, a coach who is not a great O coach, and a looming UFA in Joe.
There is a battle for pecking order going on that will get sorted out by results but its still early in the season.

the half court O will get better. Maybe I'm getting off topic but I think it all comes down to do they beat the Celtics, Magic or Cavs. Can they do it as currently constistuted, and if not do they make a small deal or a big deal or no deal.

I think the possibility exists (not probability) as constituted because Marvin and Horford have huge upsides. To win against those three Marivin and Al would have to elevate.

But back to the point playoff basketball will change the flow they establish by seasons end. It should be interesting