A Brand Trade I Could Support

Mezotarkus · Post #1 » by **Mezotarkus** » Sat Dec 5, 2009 4:20 am

This was proposed on the Trade board and it has grown on me.

Diaw, Diop and Ajinca for Brand and Smith

While Diop's contract is smaller than Brand's I think Diop's contract is more offensive than Brand's on a relative basis. Ajinca is a zero. Diaw, well everyone here knows what I think about him.

Post #2 » by **Walt Cronkite** » Sat Dec 5, 2009 4:27 am

Awful. This team needs a low post scorer. Brand traditionally gets what he gets by having a sick midrange shot and hustling. We already have Wallace doing what Brand would do (without the shooting) and I'm certain they'd limit eachother's efficiency since they'd be trying to do the same thing.

Additionally, we need to stop trading for undesirable contracts. When Brand comes in and doesn't have an affect on the wins and losses we're just going to be more sunk because we've turned Diop's deal into Brand's.

Mezotarkus · Post #3 » by **Mezotarkus** » Sat Dec 5, 2009 12:56 pm

Walt Cronkite wrote:Awful. This team needs a low post scorer. Brand traditionally gets what he gets by having a sick midrange shot and hustling. We already have Wallace doing what Brand would do (without the shooting) and I'm certain they'd limit eachother's efficiency since they'd be trying to do the same thing.

Additionally, we need to stop trading for undesirable contracts. When Brand comes in and doesn't have an affect on the wins and losses we're just going to be more sunk because we've turned Diop's deal into Brand's.

Brand is a low post scorer. Look at his mix of post versus jumpshot scoring and its comparable to Al Jefferson, Carlos Boozer, Lamarcus Aldridge, Chris Bosh, etc. He's certainly a better low post scorer than anyone on our team.

Wallace would be able to defend better (steals, blocks, etc.) and make his shots if he weren't so worn out from having to try to get every rebound since no one else (Diaw specifically) is doing so. I disagree that Brand+Wallace is inefficient.

This is a trade where we give up undesirable contracts for others so the theory here is we are giving up really bad contracts and getting back really bad contracts but we are getting back someone who can actually contribute versus Diop and someone who can actually play their position versus Diaw.

Post #4 » by **BigSlam** » Sat Dec 5, 2009 1:02 pm

I wouldn't be comparing guys like Bosh and LMA to Al Jefferson when it comes to low post scoring.

BobsBuddy · Post #5 » by **BobsBuddy** » Sat Dec 5, 2009 2:09 pm

Absolutely NO WAY.
Brand has been hurt the last couple of years and his numbers are dropping. The Huge contract is not worth the risk. Thomas is a good investment if we don't have to give up much.
I still don't understand why Brown is not getting more minutes. Last night Diaw played awful and he should have been replaced in the 3 rd period. We might have won that game. Also mix Henderson in for 5-7 minutes a game behind Jax.

Post #6 » by **Walt Cronkite** » Sat Dec 5, 2009 9:54 pm

Mezotarkus wrote:Brand is a low post scorer. Look at his mix of post versus jumpshot scoring and its comparable to Al Jefferson, Carlos Boozer, Lamarcus Aldridge, Chris Bosh, etc. He's certainly a better low post scorer than anyone on our team.

Wallace would be able to defend better (steals, blocks, etc.) and make his shots if he weren't so worn out from having to try to get every rebound since no one else (Diaw specifically) is doing so. I disagree that Brand+Wallace is inefficient.

This is a trade where we give up undesirable contracts for others so the theory here is we are giving up really bad contracts and getting back really bad contracts but we are getting back someone who can actually contribute versus Diop and someone who can actually play their position versus Diaw.

Brand can drive on bigger players or use his right hook in the post and he has an excellent face up game. If his achilles and shoulder aren't issues, then he's a fine target for dumping Diop somewhere, I'm just worried about that contract because he's not going to return to the form of player that he's getting paid to be.

Brand would guard 4s, so Wallace would be happy about that and I guess Gerald's offensive contribution would fall off, but that's a good thing. I think I'm coming around to the Brand idea.

Mezotarkus · Post #7 » by **Mezotarkus** » Sun Dec 6, 2009 12:08 am

BigSlam wrote:I wouldn't be comparing guys like Bosh and LMA to Al Jefferson when it comes to low post scoring.

So far in the 2009-10 season, 48% of Bosh's shots are considered low post scoring (post moves or dunks).

This figure is 38% for Aldridge and 35% for Jefferson. Brand is 34%.

Post #8 » by **BigSlam** » Sun Dec 6, 2009 12:11 am

Mezotarkus wrote:So far in the 2009-10 season, 48% of Bosh's shots are considered low post scoring (post moves or dunks).

The key here is "dunks". He gets a lot of his points in the paint from dunks and off offensive rebounds. He doesn't have the refined post execution of someone like Jefferson.

Mezotarkus · Post #9 » by **Mezotarkus** » Sun Dec 6, 2009 12:11 am

Walt Cronkite wrote:Brand can drive on bigger players or use his right hook in the post and he has an excellent face up game. If his achilles and shoulder aren't issues, then he's a fine target for dumping Diop somewhere, I'm just worried about that contract because he's not going to return to the form of player that he's getting paid to be.

Brand would guard 4s, so Wallace would be happy about that and I guess Gerald's offensive contribution would fall off, but that's a good thing. I think I'm coming around to the Brand idea.

Agreed but we are getting 0 for Diop's salary right now. So consider Brand's salary less Diop's and that's probably a fair contract.

Mezotarkus · Post #10 » by **Mezotarkus** » Sun Dec 6, 2009 12:14 am

BigSlam wrote:
Mezotarkus wrote:So far in the 2009-10 season, 48% of Bosh's shots are considered low post scoring (post moves or dunks).

The key here is "dunks". He gets a lot of his points in the paint from dunks and off offensive rebounds. He doesn't have the refined post execution of someone like Jefferson.

7% of Bosh's shots are dunks. 5% of Jefferson's are dunks.

Post #11 » by **BigSlam** » Sun Dec 6, 2009 12:47 am

Mezotarkus wrote:
BigSlam wrote:
Mezotarkus wrote:So far in the 2009-10 season, 48% of Bosh's shots are considered low post scoring (post moves or dunks).

The key here is "dunks". He gets a lot of his points in the paint from dunks and off offensive rebounds. He doesn't have the refined post execution of someone like Jefferson.

7% of Bosh's shots are dunks. 5% of Jefferson's are dunks.

And the vast majority of Bosh's other points in the paint are from face up shots, running layups and put backs etc.

You aren't seriously suggesting that Bosh has an equal back to the basket post game as Al Jefferson - are you?

SWedd523 · Post #12 » by **SWedd523** » Sun Dec 6, 2009 1:34 am

Andrea Bargnani, Brandon Bass, Andray Blatche, Drew Gooden, Al Harrington, Udonis Haslem, JJ Hickson, Carl Landry, Kevin Love, Paul Millsap, Troy Murphy, Anthony Randolph, Zach Randolph, Luis Scola, Tyrus Thomas, Jason Thompson, Anderson Varejao, David West.

Just a short list of PF's I'd take way before I'd take Elton Brand.

kariMkariM71 · Post #13 » by **kariMkariM71** » Sun Dec 6, 2009 11:55 pm

Brand's Salary in the next 4 years:

09-10 = 14.8 mil
10-11 = 16.0 mil
11-12 = 17.0 mil
12-13 = 18.0 mil

do you really wana pay brand $18 million a year in 2012-2013 ? he will be 34 that year...

diop 6 mill a year comes off after 2011-2012
diaw 9 mill a year comes off after 2011-2012

kariMkariM71 · Post #14 » by **kariMkariM71** » Sun Dec 6, 2009 11:57 pm

andray blatche would be the perfect PF for us... check out his stats before jamison came back for the wizards...

he makes about 3 mil a year and is locked up until 2012

Battery · Post #15 » by **Battery** » Mon Dec 7, 2009 1:06 am

kariMkariM71 wrote:andray blatche would be the perfect PF for us... check out his stats before jamison came back for the wizards...

he makes about 3 mil a year and is locked up until 2012

Which is why the Wizards won't trade him. They should however dump Gilbert Arenas. ewww

Mezotarkus · Post #16 » by **Mezotarkus** » Tue Dec 8, 2009 10:06 am

BigSlam wrote:You aren't seriously suggesting that Bosh has an equal back to the basket post game as Al Jefferson - are you?

I am saying Brand and the others I listed are primarily inside scorers - something we don't have right now.

Post #17 » by **BigSlam** » Tue Dec 8, 2009 2:01 pm

Mezotarkus wrote:
BigSlam wrote:You aren't seriously suggesting that Bosh has an equal back to the basket post game as Al Jefferson - are you?

I am saying Brand and the others I listed are primarily inside scorers - something we don't have right now.

Brand is a face up, jump shooting PF who plays with some grunt down low.

He's far from a traditional inside scorer.

Benjamin Linus · Post #18 » by **Benjamin Linus** » Tue Dec 8, 2009 2:37 pm

I don't really understand where you are getting at with these percentages. If Brand attempts 34% of his shots inside the paint, 66% are jumpers.

If you want to look at it in the light of percentage of shots taken in "the low post", then we doing just fine...

Wallace - 61%
Mohammed - 57%
Diaw - 49%
Brown - 69%
Chandler - 82%

We actually lead the league in taking shots inside the paint, we're sixth in the league in shots made in the paint.

I think you're confusing inside scoring with having a post-game.

Like BigSlam and Walt Cronkite have mentioned, Brand is now more of a jump shooter who gets his points around the basket mostly from put-backs or being in transition or they're just simply garbage points. He's not a guy you can consistently dump the ball down-low to and have them work their way to put up points.