WIZ v. CELTICS

[Wizardspride]

PS: Can we please sit Caron down...or trade him. Which is what I suspect EG will ultimately do.

Sometimes I just don't understand the hate on the board. Why are people picking on Butler? He had 10 points, 8 boards, 5 assists and just 1 turnover while completely shutting down Paul Pierce. Butler's shot was off (just 3 of 10) but at least he only shot 10 times and he managed to go 4/5 from the line.

Butler didn't have a dominant game, but he did his job quite well. He played Pierce to a standstill and stayed within the confines of the offense. What more do you want?

First of all....I don't "hate" Caron. I just don't think he's as good as you apparently do.

And I'm not just basing my opinion on last nights performance either.

Frankly, last season his attitude rubbed me the wrong way. Particularly as it pertained to his younger teammates.

Also, I'm not too thrilled about having a 6-5 SF in the starting line-up...especially with Jamison at the PF position.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

This game was lost at around the 5 minute mark when Flip, genius that he is, substituted Jamison for Haywood. We had been on a pretty nice ride and were playing great D with Wood and Blatche next to each other... I'm not sure we made a stop after that.

[LyricalRico]

The thing that kills me about Butler is that he does dumb stuff at critical moments and completely kills our momentum. We were on a run at some point in the game but he dribbles the ball off his foot. Then we've got a run going in the 4th and he misses a dunk. If it's not stuff like that, it's quick shots when we don't need them or an offensive foul when he goes baseline (which happens often).

Looking at his stat line in the box score the next day might indicate he had a decent game, but he's proven to be a net negative in a lot of games this season IMO. And in the others he's not having the impact that a supposedly All-Star caliber player should be having. If that's what we're going to get from him, I'd much rather bring in a guy who's going to give similar production but at a cheaper rate and with both more defense and less ego.

[nate33]

This game was lost at around the 5 minute mark when Flip, genius that he is, substituted Jamison for Haywood. We had been on a pretty nice ride and were playing great D with Wood and Blatche next to each other... I'm not sure we made a stop after that.

Haywood had played 19 consecutive minutes in the second half (except for a 41-second rest right at the end of the 3rd quarter). I thought Haywood looked tired and needed a blow. I don't fault Flip for that.

[fishercob]

This game was lost at around the 5 minute mark when Flip, genius that he is, substituted Jamison for Haywood. We had been on a pretty nice ride and were playing great D with Wood and Blatche next to each other... I'm not sure we made a stop after that.

It was actually lost before then. Flip only managed to get Haywood 41 seconds of rest in the first 18:55 of play in the second half. He painted himself into a corner, Bredan was gassed and he needed to sub him. You have to find a way to steal more rest for Haywood so he can be on the court down the stretch.

[LyricalRico]

This game was lost at around the 5 minute mark when Flip, genius that he is, substituted Jamison for Haywood. We had been on a pretty nice ride and were playing great D with Wood and Blatche next to each other... I'm not sure we made a stop after that.

It was actually lost before then. Flip only managed to get Haywood 41 seconds of rest in the first 18:55 of play in the second half. He painted himself into a corner, Bredan was gassed and he needed to sub him. You have to find a way to steal more rest for Haywood so he can be on the court down the stretch.

IIRC, he tried but Oberto and McGee were complete hack machines who got Boston into the penalty early in the third. He almost had no choice but to go back to Haywood IMO.

[Bigmiketruth]

What was with the Verizon Center booing Gilbert when he went to the line to tie the game? I was there and the crowd was all about the home team for most of the game. That kind of stuff needs to stop.

[ErikChowbay023]

PS: Can we please sit Caron down...or trade him. Which is what I suspect EG will ultimately do.

Sometimes I just don't understand the hate on the board. Why are people picking on Butler? He had 10 points, 8 boards, 5 assists and just 1 turnover while completely shutting down Paul Pierce. Butler's shot was off (just 3 of 10) but at least he only shot 10 times and he managed to go 4/5 from the line.

Butler didn't have a dominant game, but he did his job quite well. He played Pierce to a standstill and stayed within the confines of the offense. What more do you want?

First of all....I don't "hate" Caron. I just don't think he's as good as you apparently do.

And I'm not just basing my opinion on last nights performance either.

Frankly, last season his attitude rubbed me the wrong way. Particularly as it pertained to his younger teammates.

Also, I'm not too thrilled about having a 6-5 SF in the starting line-up...especially with Jamison at the PF position.

Caron is 6`7 and always has been...where are you getting you information from..

[fishercob]

What was with the Verizon Center booing Gilbert when he went to the line to tie the game? I was there and the crowd was all about the home team for most of the game. That kind of stuff needs to stop.

The lower bowl was about 40% Celtic fans. Dems yer booers. Personally, I was saying boo-urns.

[Wizardspride]

Caron is 6`7 and always has been...where are you getting you information from..

Actually Caron is 6-5 and always has been. He's just listed as 6-7.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Caron-Butler-1894/

[Silvie Lysandra]

"using heights without shoes in a game played by people in shoes"

He's 6'6 1/2 in shoes, which is what matters.

[TheKingOfVa360]

Caron is 6`7 and always has been...where are you getting you information from..

Actually Caron is 6-5 and always has been. He's just listed as 6-7.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Caron-Butler-1894/

I agree, Butler is a mere 6'5. I have met him several times and he is no where close to 6'7. I'm 6'2 and can tell the difference in height. Same for Ray Allen he is more like 6'3/ 6'4 but is listed as 6'5

[Ruzious]

Caron is 6`7 and always has been...where are you getting you information from..

Actually Caron is 6-5 and always has been. He's just listed as 6-7.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Caron-Butler-1894/

I agree, Butler is a mere 6'5. I have met him several times and he is no where close to 6'7. I'm 6'2 and can tell the difference in height. Same for Ray Allen he is more like 6'3/ 6'4 but is listed as 6'5

It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. He was measured at 6'5.25 without shoes and 6'6.5 with shoes. He plays with shoes, so his basketball height is between 6'6 and 6'7. And he's got a 6'11.5 wingspan.

[TheKingOfVa360]

It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. He was measured at 6'5.25 without shoes and 6'6.5 with shoes. He plays with shoes, so his basketball height is between 6'6 and 6'7. And he's got a 6'11.5 wingspan.

In shoes he doesn't look 6-7, he is undersized for a SF period. That's what is holding this team back. We can't have two undersized forwards on the floor at the same time and expect to win consistently. Jamison or him has to go. I rather Butler go because his time is up with this team. He just doesn't fit and isn't a team player.

[nate33]

It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. He was measured at 6'5.25 without shoes and 6'6.5 with shoes. He plays with shoes, so his basketball height is between 6'6 and 6'7. And he's got a 6'11.5 wingspan.

In shoes he doesn't look 6-7, he is undersized for a SF period. That's what is holding this team back. We can't have two undersized forwards on the floor at the same time and expect to win consistently. Jamison or him has to go. I rather Butler go because his time is up with this team. He just doesn't fit and isn't a team player.

Whether or not Butler is "undersized" is irrelevant. He doesn't play like he is undersized. He is one of the better rebounding small forwards in the game and his defense this year has been superb.

Here's a screen of NBA forwards between the height of 6-5 and 6-8. Butler ranks 12th in rebounds per minute. Ignore the 6-8 power forwards (Haslem, Hayes, Brand and Millsap) and he ranks 8th. ( In case you were wondering, there aren't any 6-9 or 6-10 small forwards that outrebounded him either.)