my *Updated* thought on halladay

[Pharmcat]

after considering whats going on with the meetings and what not, i think yanks should go all in for halladay...yes, he has miles on his arms, yes, he'll cost joba and montero, yes joba could then dominate us for 10+ years

BUT

this is a win now team, the yankee core is aging, with jeter, arod, posada, Mo, etc, the window is only a few more years, so go all in for those years to maximize your chance of WS...with Halladay, CC, AJ, that is prolly multiple runs at WS (no one can touch that trio), and if we win 1-2 more, imo it'll be worth it....ive been back and forth, but i believe we should go all for it now

other points:

1) the reasoning of using this package for another SP, the reality is those SP arent available, King aint going anywhere now that Sea is spending $$ trying to win, the FLA just turned down 2 TOPTex prospects for JJ, grinke isnt on the market, etc

2) the reasoning of waiting a year and signing roy as a FA, but who knows what can happen in a year?? see injuries, and we have no idea how AJ, CC, and Andy respond after their workload last year

just my thought, fire away at me (i know ive been wishy washy on this before)

[Relentless88]

I agree.

AA make it happen.

Halladay
Sabathia
Burnett
Pettitte
Wang?

Dangerous...sign Roy to an extension and that Yankees team are the favorites for at least the next 3 years.

[Jitpal]

If Halladay dropped his demand of a contract extension, I think there is no way in the world Cashman would trade for him unless they were getting an incredible deal. By incredible I mean a package centered around Z-Mac and Romine. I also don't think the Yankees want to give up a huge contract to a 33 year old. That leaves them in a tough situation, if they have to give up a Joba/Montero package then they almost have to sign him to that large deal because of what they gave up. It would be almost silly to see Joba/Montero dominate for the Blue Jays while the Yankees have Halladay for one year + draft picks.

I don't think it's a match. I don't think the Red Sox are a match either. Even if the Angels or Phillies get him, I'm not worried. It's no lock the Angels will make the playoffs, even with Halladay because they will be replacing Lackey's potential 18 wins with Halladay's potential 18-20 wins. They still don't have a bullpen, the offense got worse without Figgins and Guerrero and the Mariners and Rangers just got a lot better. Phillies are in another division and a ton would have to happen for there to be a World Series rematch that there isn't a point in thinking about it. I think Halladay stay's a Blue Jay and maybe gets moved to a contender at the deadline.

Let's stick with Hughes and Joba. I wanted Harden but he is going to the Rangers. If a guy like Sheets checks out with the medicals, I think Cashman should go after a guy like that. Other than that, I think he should stand pat in the rotation. -Jitpal

[Relentless88]

Why didn't Yankees go after Randy Wolfe?

[Pharmcat]

If Halladay dropped his demand of a contract extension, I think there is no way in the world Cashman would trade for him unless they were getting an incredible deal. By incredible I mean a package centered around Z-Mac and Romine. I also don't think the Yankees want to give up a huge contract to a 33 year old. That leaves them in a tough situation, if they have to give up a Joba/Montero package then they almost have to sign him to that large deal because of what they gave up. It would be almost silly to see Joba/Montero dominate for the Blue Jays while the Yankees have Halladay for one year + draft picks.

I don't think it's a match. I don't think the Red Sox are a match either. Even if the Angels or Phillies get him, I'm not worried. It's no lock the Angels will make the playoffs, even with Halladay because they will be replacing Lackey's potential 18 wins with Halladay's potential 18-20 wins. They still don't have a bullpen, the offense got worse without Figgins and Guerrero and the Mariners and Rangers just got a lot better. Phillies are in another division and a ton would have to happen for there to be a World Series rematch that there isn't a point in thinking about it. I think Halladay stay's a Blue Jay and maybe gets moved to a contender at the deadline.

Let's stick with Hughes and Joba. I wanted Harden but he is going to the Rangers. If a guy like Sheets checks out with the medicals, I think Cashman should go after a guy like that. Other than that, I think he should stand pat in the rotation. -Jitpal

absolutely agree with you, but my thinking is, if we get halladay, thats a KO punch that Bos and LAA cannot counter, and with roy, aj, cc, thats at least 2 more WS, and imo if we give halladay a 4-5 yr extension and win 2 more, i think its worth it....thats my reasoning

[Pharmcat]

Why didn't Yankees go after Randy Wolfe?

lol i cant believe he got 3 from Mil, NYM werent going more than 2 for him.

[moocow007]

I think the Yankees should pass on Halladay for now...especially if it looks like he's heading out West. Look, the Yankees WON the worlds series last season due in large part to their pitching. That core is returning. They've upgraded in center already and if they bring back Damon their offense will be even stronger (ARod will be right and healthy from the start and Texeira will have served his "NY adjustment" period already).

I think Halladay is going overboard. Would it make them better now? OBVIOUSLY. But you at some point the return is not worth what you're giving up. I think the Yanks are clear to their saturation point. If they are still concerned about the 4th or 5th starter (Chamberlain and Hughes would probably be among the best 4th and 5th starters in the majors) offering a one year deal to Sheets or Dusherer (OR BOTH if depth is what you're looking for) makes a whole lot more sense.

Keep Montero...move him to the corner OF spot and group him as a future cornerstone type offensive juggernaut that he projects to be.

[Pharmcat]

i think if the package can be around montero + others and NOT joba/phil, cash would do it

i totally understand your guys perspective, and i agree, get another #3 SP and roll again....my feeling is just that this team is at its peak and we might as well do our best to max our returns while at the peak...if we get halladay, no one can touch our SP trio

[magnumt]

I think the Yankees should pass on Halladay for now...especially if it looks like he's heading out West. Look, the Yankees WON the worlds series last season due in large part to their pitching. That core is returning. They've upgraded in center already and if they bring back Damon their offense will be even stronger (ARod will be right and healthy from the start and Texeira will have served his "NY adjustment" period already).

I think Halladay is going overboard. Would it make them better now? OBVIOUSLY. But you at some point the return is not worth what you're giving up. I think the Yanks are clear to their saturation point. If they are still concerned about the 4th or 5th starter (Chamberlain and Hughes would probably be among the best 4th and 5th starters in the majors) offering a one year deal to Sheets or Dusherer (OR BOTH if depth is what you're looking for) makes a whole lot more sense.

Keep Montero...move him to the corner OF spot and group him as a future cornerstone type offensive juggernaut that he projects to be.

This.

I don't want to overpay for Halladay, get into a bidding war...and then only have him for a rental and have to repeat the process again next Off-Season (or worse, sign him to some horrendous ass extension). We already have CC and AJ signed to lengthy deals...let's play it safe/hard ball with Halladay.

i think if the package can be around montero + others and NOT joba/phil, cash would do it

i totally understand your guys perspective, and i agree, get another #3 SP and roll again....my feeling is just that this team is at its peak and we might as well do our best to max our returns while at the peak...if we get halladay, no one can touch our SP trio

Given how Montero has shown his stuff/moxie already w/o major hitch...that's a bad idea. I'd rather keep Montero+Hughes, but wouldn't complain on a Jobba+Filler+Cash for Halladay...anything else would reverb right back to my overpaying comment. Especially how Robertson displayed his stuff so well at the highest level in baseball w/o fear or hesitation.

Now, I REALLY want us to pursue Lackey (with Holiday as a consolation prize).

--Mags

[Pharmcat]

is it overpaying if we win 2 of the next 4-5 WS?

[Dr. Detfink]

Exactly. I would wait till Roy's contract runs out then sign him without giving up any more prospects.

[Wade2k6]

is it overpaying if we win 2 of the next 4-5 WS?

Yeah but the Yankees also will go after a stud pitcher next off-season during FA, at least I would think. They got it done with what they had last year and were clearly the best team in baseball since A-Rod came back. There's no reason to panic at this point and throw around players with tons of potential (both Joba/Hughes and Montero). If you wait a year then sign Lee, Beckett, or Halladay next off-season the teams top 3 is ridiculous and still have Joba and Phil rounding out the top 5 (which is truly scary if either players really step their game up and pitch up to their potential). And on top of that, this team is capable (Halladay or not) of winning another 2 WS in the next 5 years. Yankees have done nothing but improved this offseason, while other top teams seemed to have lost a significant piece or stayed the same.

[Pharmcat]

is it overpaying if we win 2 of the next 4-5 WS?

Yeah but the Yankees also will go after a stud pitcher next off-season during FA, at least I would think. They got it done with what they had last year and were clearly the best team in baseball since A-Rod came back. There's no reason to panic at this point and throw around players with tons of potential (both Joba/Hughes and Montero). If you wait a year then sign Lee, Beckett, or Halladay next off-season the teams top 3 is ridiculous and still have Joba and Phil rounding out the top 5 (which is truly scary if either players really step their game up and pitch up to their potential). And on top of that, this team is capable (Halladay or not) of winning another 2 WS in the next 5 years. Yankees have done nothing but improved this offseason, while other top teams seemed to have lost a significant piece or stayed the same.

but everybody is a year older and we have no idea how cc, aj, and andy respond after the workload, and next year, we prolly wont be able to run out a 3 man rotation in the playoffs....if we wait for next off season, then we didnt maximize our chance to win this coming season.

the way i look at it, we are at the peak, with guys like jeter, arod, posada, Mo, etc...we should do whatever necessary to take advantage for the next 2-3 years or so, if we get Roy, imo, there is no one who can come close to us

[Relentless88]

Lackey to Boston, Halladay to Philly. What's the Yankees option now? Stick with CC/AJ/Andy/Joba/Huges? Who else is left?

[Pharmcat]

ok i guess this is useless now, so much for my thought

cash really putting his money on joba and phil, hopefully it pans out

[magnumt]

My thoughts from the Halladay Thread on the Knicks Board:

Lee fizzled in that last game against the Yanks, and I think Hamels comes back much stronger next season.

Red sox signing Lackey to make up for offense is interesting, but not enough to put them over the top. They overpaid for him.

Sox trading Manny was a huge mistake.

I'm not surprised at all. Not one bit. They have the deepest Farm system, and could sacrifice some Farm players for Halladay w/o losing much sleep.

I agree they overpaid by Lackey, and props to his Agent for making the Red Sox their bitch!

Also, anyone here the news of the Angels in serious talks with Matsui?

http://www.realgmbaseball.com/src_wiretap_teams/la_angels/2009/12/

Could Angels Make Play For Matsui?
24th December, 2008 - 4:48 pm

New York Post - The Angels, after losing out on Mark Teixeira, could make a play for Hideki Matsui to bolster their lineup.

The Yankees have more players than needed in the outfield and at designated hitter. Xavier Nady is another name that has been floated around in trade rumors, and the Braves appear interested.

The signing of Teixeira has made Matsui, Nady and Nick Swisher somewhat expendable.

[Pharmcat]

horrible fail here

didnt cost 100 million, Phi didnt give up its top position prospect either

is cash reading the market here?

[Dr. Detfink]

No harm no foul. I'll tell ya why. The Phillies traded a great lefty for a great righty but that won't get them any closer to another WS title because teams such as the Yanks can go 0-2 vs. Halladay and cream the rest of the rotation. I guess Phillie is betting that Cole "Hollywood" Hamels will bounce back and be lights out of 2 seasons ago but really there's not too much pitching available these days.

All the Yanks need is a #4 starter to get some innings. Perhaps oft injured Sheets or Douche-serer can fill the void Chien Ming Wang left.

[jeff1624]

horrible fail here

didnt cost 100 million, Phi didnt give up its top position prospect either

is cash reading the market here?

Toronto was never really considering the yanks unless we gave them 150% of what other teams were offering. The Blue Jays don't want to see Halladay 5 times a year.

Halladay is now out of the AL east, yanks come out winners in this deal even though we weren't even involved. Had it been the Red Sox that had traded for him, THEN we would have had problem, btu since that isn't the case...