Grange: Raps missing the most basic ingredient

[supersub15]

...Effort

But there are only so many seven footers with skill and talent out there. Hello Andrea Bargnani! Or 6-foot-10 guys who can handle, shoot and pass. Hedo! So flaws kind of get minimized and you’re left with a No. 1 pick who isn’t exactly ready to scratch guys eyes out most nights, or a prized free agent who is so enamoured with his Mr. Fourth Quarter status that he forgets about the second quarter on a Tuesday night in Milwaukee.

[elitehunter99]

Evans needs to get in there and start cracking skulls...... that includes his own teammates skulls, I wouldn't mind seeing him elbow Bargnani or HOSE *inadvertently* while coming down with a rebound to wake them up..

[dagger]

I read his entire article, and if his point is that we have bench players that can add a little energy, then we would seem to have that ingredient, at least as far as middle-of-the-pack teams go.

[ATLTimekeeper]

He's pretty accurate. Although I dispute that Houston doesn't have any good players. Scola and Landry are both top 10 PFs, IMO.

The problem with some of the Raptors that don't play hard every night is that they're just not talented enough to get by on a quarter or two of effort. I'd say Paul Pierce coasts as much as Hedo, but he's just more talented. The good sign is that we have seen some scrappy wins this month, and we've played a lot of games, so as the schedule progresses, we should have more rest to eliminate those dead-leg nights.

[Kabookalu]

I always see posts lashing at Bargnani for "being lazy", but to me he's always seemed like a guy that will do whatever his coaches tells him to do. Last year before Mitchell got canned, Bargnani was our most aggressive interior defender (yeah even more than JO imo). Bring in a more relaxive personality in Triano and Bargnani lost that same aggression. In fact I've seen Bargnani get more aggressive in his rookie year than the games he has served under Triano.

[YogiStewart]

Evans needs to get in there and start cracking skulls...... that includes his own teammates skulls, I wouldn't mind seeing him elbow Bargnani or HOSE *inadvertently* while coming down with a rebound to wake them up..

glad you are here to entertain yourself.
that Hose comment was both original and clever.

[Double Helix]

It's kind of interesting how Bellinelli has been excluded from most conversations involving effort but I'd argue that the minutes Weems is receiving were Belli's to lose and he lost them unless we're in dire need of scoring.

Belli on offence is motivated and athletic. Belli on defence sometimes gets caught in no-man's land between help rotation and actual coverage of his own man. Until he realizes what Triano and the coaching staff expects he's going to be limited to runs where we're in need of instant offence.

I believe he's capable and I don't necessarily think it's an effort thing. I mean, come on... this guy played for Golden State and the Italian National team these past few years; it's not like he was coached by Coach K, Riley or a Van Gundy.

Triano's doing a good job of making an example out of Weems. Hopefully Belli and Wright will react in different ways.

Wright needs to accept his role and quit thinking about his next contract and the idea that he's a scorer on this team.

Belli needs to learn that we expect defensive intensity from him on every possession.

[Double Helix]

Also, SG is the one area where we will consistently need an insane amount of effort and defensive intensity night after night.

Of course, we'll need it from every position but our SG depth at the moment doesn't have the kind of 30 minutes per game talent we have at other positions so the minutes are largely predicated on what these guys provide other than scoring.

While they're not defensive superstars, Bosh, Bargs and Turk all do enough offensively to warrant the minutes they play; it's harder to score when they're out for any significant period of time and even with solid defensive effort... we lose the +- overall.

The SG spot is different though. None of the Derozan, Wright, Weems or Belli are making it hard on Triano to cut their minutes so he can just go with whomever seems to either be hot shooting the ball or playing the hardest on both ends of the court. It's going to make for a lot of up and down minutes/box scores but we have no other choice until one of the older players steps up... or Derozan somehow matures far sooner than we're all expecting.

[bingolong]

Unlike most posters on this board, I don't really blame Colangelo. I think the missing ingredient can be found in this link...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87bAMexzn24

[cram]

I completely agree with Grange. I was at the game friday night....probably the worst game i have seen in person other than preseason. Not sure anyone other than Pops, and Derozan were even sweating. To make it worse, they didn't come out to play against a team that totally spanked them a week and a half ago.

Who on our team is a Type A competitor? WHo has the type A mindset?

Bosh - yes
Derozan - too early to tell, but early signs are that he is.
Bargs - no (he has world class talent, but hardly seems to be super driven or competitive)
Jose - he seems uber-competitive, but his lack of defensive effort would suggest otherwise. He confuses me.
Hedo - definitely not.

Its a mindset, guys....one that's hard to change or coach, especially with mature players. If only 2 out of 5 of our starting lineup is a type A (and one of them is a rookie), we aren't winning ****, regardless of talent.

[Morris_Shatford]

Salt?

[Too Late Crew]

I think its kind of an easy hindsight target to simply say "lack of effort".

Bosh brings effort everynight. He may not always succeed but his effort is there. I didn't hear people ragging on Hedo's effort so much when he was winning. He's a laid back kind of guy it doesn;t mean he doesn't care or doesn't try. Honestly I think Bargs gives effort too. But effort without achievment is not productive. The Rockets comparison is an intersting one. The team has pretty limited offensive talent. Sure they give effort BUT compare the Rockets to the Raps. Their PG quick and athletic. Ours slow and methodical. Their frontcourt. Undersized but all are at least average athletes (I'd argue many of them are above average) defenders rebounders. Ours? Tall but not athletic, not rebounders and not defenders.

The guys who play big minutes for the rockets are athletic, rebound and defend. Energy bench guys are a nice luxury but your team plays the way the starters play not the bench players.

Having guys give better effort only goes so far if you have the wrong guys mixed together.

There are many factors in the Raptors problems but effort is not #1. Its players plain and simple. They have the wrong mix. Until they fix it even at max effort they still won;t be all that good.

[J-Roc]

Hmm, so the key is Pops Mensah Bonsu. Wow. And he's been sitting on the bench this whole time and Doug Smith was talking about us dropping him off the roster.

Regarding effort, that's all about internal leadership. Not the coach or GM. The players in the room. More and more we need someone like Jarrett Jack to become the leader of this team.

[Kabookalu]

Hmm, so the key is Pops Mensah Bonsu. Wow. And he's been sitting on the bench this whole time and Doug Smith was talking about us dropping him off the roster.

Regarding effort, that's all about internal leadership. Not the coach or GM. The players in the room. More and more we need someone like Jarrett Jack to become the leader of this team.

Shouldn't that be someone elses' job like saaaay...you know.

[lucky777s]

He's pretty accurate. Although I dispute that Houston doesn't have any good players. Scola and Landry are both top 10 PFs, IMO.

It is still a good matchup for Raps. No low post scoring bigs. No really skilled wings.

Scola is a very good player but lets not overrate him. You did see how our soft front line intimidated the Rockets in the paint right? They are below the rim players.

Where would Scola be on this list? Don't even bother with Landry who is near the Brandon Bass level, a guy who is not even playing much in ORL. Scola you might say is slightly above Haslem? But is he better than Elton Brand or Thompson/Blair/West?


Tim Duncan
KG
Bosh
Pau Gasol
Dirk
Boozer
Amare
AntawnJamison
Josh Smith
Marcus Camby
KMart/Chris Andersen
Aldridge
David Lee
Haslem/Beasley
Rashard/Bass
Zach Randolph
David West
Dajuan Blair
Jason Thompson
Elton Brand
Boris Diaw

[J-Roc]

Who would trade our team for Houston's, straight up?

[Kabookalu]

Tim Duncan
Dirk Nowitzki
Chris Bosh
Pau Gasol
Kevin Garnett
Josh Smith
Carlos Boozer
Antawn Jamison
Rashard Lewis
Zach Randolph
LaMarcus Aldridge
Jason Thompson
Luis Scola

That's how my list looks like up to Scola. And yes I think Randolph is having a better season than Aldridge, he tends to get vastly underrated because of his infamous play against us when he was with New York airballing a 3 pointer and his lack of passing ability, but other than that he's one of the better post players in the league and is a great rebounder.

[deno07]

It's kind of interesting how Bellinelli has been excluded from most conversations involving effort but I'd argue that the minutes Weems is receiving were Belli's to lose and he lost them unless we're in dire need of scoring.

Belli on offence is motivated and athletic. Belli on defence sometimes gets caught in no-man's land between help rotation and actual coverage of his own man. Until he realizes what Triano and the coaching staff expects he's going to be limited to runs where we're in need of instant offence.

I believe he's capable and I don't necessarily think it's an effort thing. I mean, come on... this guy played for Golden State and the Italian National team these past few years; it's not like he was coached by Coach K, Riley or a Van Gundy.

Triano's doing a good job of making an example out of Weems. Hopefully Belli and Wright will react in different ways.

Wright needs to accept his role and quit thinking about his next contract and the idea that he's a scorer on this team.

Belli needs to learn that we expect defensive intensity from him on every possession.

The truth of the matter is Triano has never really given Marco his consistant minutes . He's getting less minutes now than he was getting in Golden State.I know your argument will be he hasnt earned it but I think he has . He has played well in stretches when he gets over 19 minutes . Perfect example with Calderon hurt ,why isnt he getting more minutes ? They should have him as backup point to Jack and getting his minutes at the SG .But no Jay has Banks at point and now used Weems at the SG . I dont get Triano . If they are high on Marco then play him more .I`d like to see him get a stretch where he go 30 minutes a game and I will guarantee you he will do well .Its very frustrating, he is only 23 and I wish they would show more confidence in him because I think he would produce both offensively and defensively

[Tofubeque]

Unlike most posters on this board, I don't really blame Colangelo. I think the missing ingredient can be found in this link...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87bAMexzn24

That is exactly what I want to see from the Raptors.

[ATLTimekeeper]

He's pretty accurate. Although I dispute that Houston doesn't have any good players. Scola and Landry are both top 10 PFs, IMO.

It is still a good matchup for Raps. No low post scoring bigs. No really skilled wings.

Scola is a very good player but lets not overrate him. You did see how our soft front line intimidated the Rockets in the paint right? They are below the rim players.

Where would Scola be on this list? Don't even bother with Landry who is near the Brandon Bass level, a guy who is not even playing much in ORL. Scola you might say is slightly above Haslem? But is he better than Elton Brand or Thompson/Blair/West?


Tim Duncan
KG
Bosh
Pau Gasol
Dirk
Boozer
Amare
Scola
Josh Smith
Landry
AntawnJamison
Marcus Camby
KMart/Chris Andersen
Aldridge
David Lee
Haslem/Beasley
Rashard/Bass
Zach Randolph
David West
Dajuan Blair
Jason Thompson
Elton Brand
Boris Diaw

We didn't intimidate them, we shot over them. They're short, and one is playing C for most of the game. They're still both strong defenders for their position. It's already been posted that Scola leads the league in defensive rebounding (30.6%). The next closest is Carlos Boozer at 29.9%. Dwight Howard is at 28.4. Chris Bosh is at 26.5. Joakim Noah is at 26.2.

Landry and Scola are exceptional low-post players. 58% of Landry's attempts come in the paint. Scola is at 52%. Compare that to Duncan (42%), KG (31%), Bosh (49%), Boozer (46%), Stoudamire (52%).